Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Well, no Certifications in our future it appears....
Virtanis wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:That being said, it seems that a DH/DC class may be inevitable. And....I'm starting to be okay with that.
I'm seriously not okay with it.
I'm gonna start a new thread on how we can embrace the DH/DC addition. I want to have higher-level combat droids and if the Devs see fit that DH/DC is the quickest and easiest way to make this happen...then I will have to accept this as the compromise and try to make it the best profession that it could be.We battled tooth and nail against this idea and now you're giving in, TK? You started the "DH Profession: Yes/No?" poll way back and we know how the majority community feels on this. Are you now leading the charge for the DH class?
I won't accept "it's DH or nothing". I won't accept "Holo said Certs but we don't want toinvest timewith the code, so we'd rather do a cookie-cutter copy of CHand slap a droideka skin on a rancor" as an answer from SOE.
ok it does sound like i get the gist of what is going on... i don't like this either, it DOES sound like they just grabbed the guy who did CH and said "hey, can you code CH but with droids? how long would it take?" the guy said "not long! and they ran with it. how halfassed is that? why are they trying to appease people like that?
no offense to all you DE's out there, you put in a crapload of busted time, but personally i'd rather see you go on suffering than add another broken, unbalanced, and ill-concieved profession to this game. ESPECIALLY if it does nothing for DE but lets them make new droids.
i guess we can hope you guys get the control of the combat droids. but wasn't your community vehemently opposed to becoming a combat hybrid profession? *sigh*
/bow
Virtanis wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
That being said, it seems that a DH/DC class may be inevitable. And....I'm starting to be okay with that.
I'm seriously not okay with it.
Yea...I know. But, what if it were the ONLY way that we'd ever see/get higher-level droids?
What's more problematic for you, Virtanis? Accepting DC/DH as existing or not having higher level combat droids (that our clients really want)?
I think we really are going to need to figure out what's what here. We simply cannot have it, nor are we going to get it, both ways.
I'm gonna start a new thread on how we can embrace the DH/DC addition. I want to have higher-level combat droids and if the Devs see fit that DH/DC is the quickest and easiest way to make this happen...then I will have to accept this as the compromise and try to make it the best profession that it could be.
We battled tooth and nail against this idea and now you're giving in, TK?
I'm not sure that"giving in" is really the rightterm here. I would say that I'm accepting this as a way to get higher-level combat droids into the game, finally. If this iscontenthas been worked on quite a bit and all but one foot out the door, I'd rather have the combat droids sooner than later (or not at all). As my other post states,I think I owe a little something to my clients that DO want this.
You started the "DH Profession: Yes/No?" poll way back and we know how the majority community feels on this. Are you now leading the charge for the DH class?
No...I'm not really leading a charge to add it, so much, as stating that I can accept it as a compromise solution to get the higher-level combat droids into the game sooner than later (or not at all). If the Devs have some alternate method to add them, they better tell us so that we can discuss it. If they have already done enough work on this that DC/DH is going to happen no matter what, I'd rather see them just finish it and get on with it.
And...yes, I started the poll. I didn't vote in it. I know that DEs are very much against this idea. It is NOT our perfect solution. However, I can accept that we aren't going to GET our perfect solution.
I'd prefer to accept this, make the most of it and add positively to it to make the coolest profession that it can be.
I won't accept "it's DH or nothing". I won't accept "Holo said Certs but we don't want toinvest timewith the code, so we'd rather do a cookie-cutter copy of CHand slap a droideka skin on a rancor" as an answer from SOE.
That may be all you ever get, Virtanis. What if it really is the only way that we will EVER see higher-level combat droids in the game.
What is more okay with you....
Having DC/DH exist in the game or having no higher-level combat droids (in the short term or ever)?
Without a Dev confirming this situation here, it's likely that this is the only choice we are ever going to get.
The thing that has changed my mind a bit, or at least let me consider being 'okay' with it, is that my clients are really excited by it and it IS cool to them.
Respectfully,
are you entirely sure your clients understand that they will have spend a significant amount of skillpoints in order to command the droids? a few months ago, when combat droids were first mentioned, i talked with some people in game about them. they couldn't wait! "combat droids?! awesome!" they said. then i told them you had to be a DE to command them (as was stated at the time) and they were pretty dismayed.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Yea...I know. But, what if it were the ONLY way that we'd ever see/get higher-level droids?
What's more problematic for you, Virtanis? Accepting DC/DH as existing or not having higher level combat droids (that our clients really want)?
I think we really are going to need to figure out what's what here. We simply cannot have it, nor are we going to get it, both ways.
I'll tell you exactly what's more problematic with this situation, but before I do, I'll requote your original post:
TK wrote: "I want to have higher-level combat droids and if the Devs see fit that DH/DC is the quickest and easiest way to make this happen...then I will have to accept this as the compromise and try to make it the best profession that it could be."
You have spoken of compromise. Before I go on, let's frame this discussion properly: this entire DH discussion revolves around the question "how to get >CL10 droids into the game".
Where is the compromise on their end?
We have flooded them with a sea of compromise suggestions, and you've read most of them TK. You know full well the vast array of ideas and compromise plans put forth by the DE community. Most of the old timers have voiced plan after plan after plan and even non-DE's have come in here suggesting compromises and alternate plans.
*pause*
Compromise is defined as:
1. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
2. The result of such a settlement.
The developers have not budged from their positions regarding >CL10 droids.
- NOT - ONE - INCH -
They aren't compromising.... and what you're suggesting is capitulation, not compromise. We've heard nothing but "certs won't work" and dead silence regarding the hundreds and hundreds of alternate suggestions the entire gaming community has put forth. They have made no concessions whatsoever regarding >CL10 droids. None. Zero. Zilch.
I am more than willing to begin offering concessions once they are, andsoshould every other DE who has fought long and hard against the DH idea.
I'm not sure that"giving in" is really the rightterm here. I would say that I'm accepting this as a way to get higher-level combat droids into the game, finally. If this iscontenthas been worked on quite a bit and all but one foot out the door, I'd rather have the combat droids sooner than later (or not at all). As my other post states,I think I owe a little something to my clients that DO want this.
Like I said above... it certainly smells like capitulation, not compromise. Capitulation is "giving in."
What is more okay with you....
Having DC/DH exist in the game or having no higher-level combat droids (in the short term or ever)?
Without a Dev confirming this situation here, it's likely that this is the only choice we are ever going to get.
The thing that has changed my mind a bit, or at least let me consider being 'okay' with it, is that my clients are really excited by it and it IS cool to them.
Neither. I want real compromise. I want them to genuinely listen to their playerbase and offerconcessions on their positionregarding >CL10 droids. For weeks DE's have been tripping over themselves providing alternatives to this situation. During that couple of weeks where the Droid Invasion thread was hot, DE's were furiously proposing alternates and new ways of getting >CL10 droids into the game.
I've heard nothing but the "party line" from the developers. Where are their efforts to seek a middle ground?
/bow
Virtanis wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Yea...I know. But, what if it were the ONLY way that we'd ever see/get higher-level droids?
What's more problematic for you, Virtanis? Accepting DC/DH as existing or not having higher level combat droids (that our clients really want)?
I think we really are going to need to figure out what's what here. We simply cannot have it, nor are we going to get it, both ways.
I'll tell you exactly what's more problematic with this situation, but before I do, I'll requote your original post:
TK wrote: "I want to have higher-level combat droids and if the Devs see fit that DH/DC is the quickest and easiest way to make this happen...then I will have to accept this as the compromise and try to make it the best profession that it could be."
You have spoken of compromise. Before I go on, let's frame this discussion properly: this entire DH discussion revolves around the question "how to get >CL10 droids into the game".
Where is the compromise on their end?
Actually...as best as I understand, withholding the work that was done was part of their compromise. They put the brakes on adding something that they had (likely) worked very hard on, because we all screamed that we found the idea so distasteful.
The fact that they delayed this...or shelved to actually try to build what we DO want...speaks volumes on compromise.
If they really weren't interested in working with us...they would have put in DH/DC (and gotten their money's worth from the work they'd done) whether we screamed about it or not.
We have flooded them with a sea of compromise suggestions, and you've read most of them TK. You know full well the vast array of ideas and compromise plans put forth by the DE community. Most of the old timers have voiced plan after plan after plan and even non-DE's have come inhere suggesting compromises and alternate plans.
Yes...and TH said in the past that they had considered a lot of the options that might be possible. They decided that the best possible situation was to build the DH/DC class (operating under the statements about us only wanting to be a pure crafter class).
Could the reason they don't want to do certs be that it will be a herculean amount of work, time and money, for relatively little ROI?
Yes....I think that's it. However, I'd rather have several levels of fixes/content/etc. than just have them take the time to build this ONE system.
Maybe the story will change down the line...but I doubt it. The new pet system changes pretty well locked us into this, I believe (and I think that TH has basically stated as much. If I'm incorrect on that, I apologize).
*pause*
Compromise is defined as:
1. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
2. The result of such a settlement.
The developers have not budged from their positions regarding >CL10 droids.
- NOT - ONE - INCH -
Thunderheart wrote:
Kevm wrote:
There's a difference between being 'negative' and offering constructive complaints or questions.
Besides, the rant of that thread was answered and there was no need to let it continue.
Exactly
I let things boil over before because there were a lot of real issues. I dont mind people venting from time to time, but it cannot be a habit. Drashk is working hard for droid issues, TK-421 and others have been supporting our efforts and we need to make this a positive place. We want this to be a fun and interesting place to come. Change and evolution is part of what MMO's are all about and this can be a place of community, a place of change and a good source of information and we all need to make it become that. It won't become a place of valuable community without all of us putting our best foot forward. That energy begets a better place and we all benefit from such an effort.
You guys have said your peace and laid your claims and we have heard them. We are putting a plan of action together (Im working on the post as we speak) and we're going through with it. I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be.
Please read the item in yellow (above) and tell me that doesn't sound like the Devs DID compromise on our behalf...
"...against the better wishes of the devs..."
They aren't compromising.... and what you're suggesting is capitulation, not compromise. We've heard nothing but "certs won't work" and dead silence regarding the hundreds and hundreds of alternate suggestions the entire gaming community has put forth. They have made no concessions whatsoever regarding >CL10 droids. None. Zero. Zilch.
Capitulation? Okay...if you want to use that term, I can live it. In that regard, I'm "giving in" on behalf of my clients that DO want this....will use the skill points to get DC.....and will enjoy it.
I might even give it a go myself.
Here's the deal. If they have newer, better combat droids "on deck" (read: very nearly finished and ready to push to TC), I'd rather have them sooner than later................even WITH the caveat that it comes as part of a DC profession.
That's how much I want them. I will accept the bad to get the good. If that's capitulation, then I'm guilty.
[snip]
Neither. I want real compromise. I want them to genuinely listen to their playerbase and offerconcessions on their positionregarding >CL10 droids.
Maybe they are just still working out exactly what's possible and don't want to say anything until they are absolutely sure if they even CAN make concessions and what those will be.
It's also possible that we will get this regardless of all the best rants ever on the top rolled into one...we just don't know.
Like I said above, it sounds to me like they are sort of making concessions by shelving work thatmay now have been done for nothing (if we DEs hold the 'party line' on this issue).
For weeks DE's have been tripping over themselves providing alternatives to this situation.
Maybe none of the alternatives is really viable for any number of reasons.
Would it be nice to know why, specifically? Sure.
This is probably the "checkers" post that TH posted. It may simply be that they have put DC on hold while they figure out a way to get it closer to what they now know that DEs can really get behind.
You might do well to start thinking of this situation in that light.
During that couple of weeks where the Droid Invasion thread was hot, DE's were furiously proposing alternates and new ways of getting >CL10 droids into the game.
Yes...and some of it was addressed (albeit not in great detail). Should we go for some 'fix' that takes 3 times as long to build, might have 3 times as many problems as a DC class and hasn't even been started yet?
Do you know how long that might set us back for >CL10 combat droids? It might be a VERY long time indeed.
Are you still interested in dealing with that "solution"? Or...would you rather be okay with trying to work with them on a solution that will get them into the game faster (albeit using a solution that most of us aren't sure is the best)?
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
The fact that they delayed this...or shelved to actually try to build what we DO want...speaks volumes on compromise.
I respectfully disagree. The root of the question again is: How to implement >CL10 droids in the game. They have not budged from their position an inch (their position being inputting a DH profession).
Yes, they have acknowledged that the community's dire needs (bug fixes, utility, fleshing out less than CL10 droids) and those have taken temporary priority over their DH idea. That is why they have "shelved" their plans, for now. It's my belief that they don't intend on doing anything other than a DH profession when it comes time to addredd the question of >CL10 droid, which will be coming down the pipe very soon.
If I'm wrong.... great. If I'm right, their idea of "compromise" amounts to nothing more than a mountain of cow dung.
I'll bookmark this post and take a look at it when SOE pitches their DH idea again (or, if they actually do make a compromise plan).
Yes...and TH said in the past that they had considered a lot of the options that might be possible. They decided that the best possible situation was to build the DH/DC class (operating under the statements about us only wanting to be a pure crafter class). Could the reason they don't want to do certs be that it will be a herculean amount of work, time and money, for relatively little ROI?
Yes, Yes... I keep hearing these comments about outrageous effort/time/cost. One thing strikes me odd though with this comment: That's their answer to almost every alternate plan the DE's or the community as a whole have pitched. People have taken so many vastly differing approaches to this problem, it's fantastically unbelievable that each and every one requires a "hurculean amount of work, time, and money". So, they're stating that the only solution is a carbon copy of the CH profession? That's just lazy and unbelievable, in my opinion.
Compromise is defined as:
1. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
2. The result of such a settlement.
The developers have not budged from their positions regarding >CL10 droids.
- NOT - ONE - INCH -
Thunderheart wrote: I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be.
Please read the item in yellow (above) and tell me that doesn't sound like the Devs DID compromise on our behalf... "...against the better wishes of the devs..."
Frankly, no. The results we're seeing in P7 and P8 had little nothing to do with >CL10 droids. Yes, there may be some technical aspects that will spill over into >CL10 droids (combat modules, etc), but NOTHING that has been said still addresses the core problem / question.
If TH, Runesabre, or JustG come here and announce that the DH idea is "100% dead and will never, ever, ever be implemented, we're working on something else", then yes.... that IS compromise. That has not happened, however, and It's my guess that they will again press for a DH profession very soon.
Is a speed bump on their road to the DH profession really a compromise?
Here's the deal. If they have newer, better combat droids "on deck" (read: very nearly finished and ready to push to TC), I'd rather have them sooner than later................even WITH the caveat that it comes as part of a DC profession. That's how much I want them. I will accept the bad to get the good. If that's capitulation, then I'm guilty.
I won't accept the bad to get the good. So I guess we'll agree to disagree here, TK.
Maybe they are just still working out exactly what's possible and don't want to say anything until they are absolutely sure if they even CAN make concessions and what those will be. It's also possible that we will get this regardless of all the best rants ever on the top rolled into one...we just don't know. Like I said above, it sounds to me like they are sort of making concessions by shelving work that may now have been done for nothing (if we DEs hold the 'party line' on this issue).
Well, if that's the case, I'll gladly eat my words... but those of us who WANT to see a viable compromise solution without the DH profession should not be throwing up our arms and giving up or "giving in"... and thats' why I still carry this banner.
Those of us who were against the DH plan from the start and have not had a sudden change of heart should continue with the pressure for a good 3rd alternative.
Maybe none of the alternatives is really viable for any number of reasons.
Once again, fantastically unbelievable.
Yes...and some of it was addressed (albeit not in great detail). Should we go for some 'fix' that takes 3 times as long to build, might have 3 times as many problems as a DC class and hasn't even been started yet?
It didn't take them ages to get CL levels for creature pets way back in Summer... relatively speaking in programming/development terms, that was a lightning fast "fix".
I have faith that a programming team with adequate information from the community, good motivation, clear goals, distinct guidelines, and a management team that is "on the ball" can achieve a fantastic alternative to the DH idea.
I believe they're hobbled by a desire by "others" among the SOE team who just want to take the easy road out and copy the CH profession.
Are you still interested in dealing with that "solution"? Or...would you rather be okay with trying to work with them on a solution that will get them into the game faster (albeit using a solution that most of us aren't sure is the best).
I don't want a half-baked, CH carbon copy, easy fix solution. Period. I want something that averts the DH profession. I've said in the past that anything that averts the DH profession is welcome in my book... certs, faction, you name it...
Anything....
Virtanis wrote:
The root of the question again is: How to implement >CL10 droids in the game. They have not budged from their position an inch (their position being inputting a DH profession).
Kollos wrote:
Virtanis wrote:
The root of the question again is: How to implement >CL10 droids in the game. They have not budged from their position an inch (their position being inputting a DH profession).
Of course not. They have said that introducing >CL10 combat droids into the game would disrupt the balance unless access to those droids is paid for in skill points, experience, and time. Since they are responsible for the ground rules, we can't expect them to compromise when what we're asking for violates one of those ground rules.
We can and shouldexpect them to adopt a system that is balanced and fair while also meeting the demands of their players. It's also my belief this can be done without the DH profession.
Geez, people talk of it likeSOE istrying to reinvent the wheel here!
If you want >CL10 combat droids, you're going to have to figure out some way for existing characters to expend ADDITIONAL skill points, experience, and time in order to obtain access to those droids. Integrating them into the Droid Engineer profession does not accomplish this. Certs do not accomplish this. A Droid Commander profession does accomplish this, but you have drawn a line in the sand and said that Droid Commander is unacceptable. That's fine, but don't blame them for it.
Tons of alternate suggestions have been pitched, not just those two... good ones to boot. I can't judge which one is best according to their standards because they continue to deny or ignore the suggestions that doconform with their standards (see the Droid Invasion post where TH put down guidelines) for other reasons (time, money, bleah, bleah).
Compromise occurs between equals. We're not equals here. They own the game and are responsible for how it works. If they establish some sort of ground rule, we have to accept it because those ground rules are established to keep projects of manageable size. If you can't accept the ground rules, your only recourse is to stop paying to play the game.
Here's my response to that idea, Kollos....
Thunderheart wrote: "I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be."
Virtanis wrote:
Kollos wrote:
Virtanis wrote:
The root of the question again is: How to implement >CL10 droids in the game. They have not budged from their position an inch (their position being inputting a DH profession).
Of course not. They have said that introducing >CL10 combat droids into the game would disrupt the balance unless access to those droids is paid for in skill points, experience, and time. Since they are responsible for the ground rules, we can't expect them to compromise when what we're asking for violates one of those ground rules.
We can and shouldexpect them to adopt a system that is balanced and fair while also meeting the demands of their players. It's also my belief this can be done without the DH profession.
Agreed. And as long as we're working within their constraints, they seem to bewilling to go along with whatever we want. Canceling DH is a good example of that willingness.
Geez, people talk of it likeSOE istrying to reinvent the wheel here!
We don't really know for sure... they might be. As they have alluded to many times, Droids are woven into the very core of the game from a mechanical point of view. Changing droids seems to be a monumentally difficult task... comparing it to reinventing the wheel might not be such a bad comparison.
If you want >CL10 combat droids, you're going to have to figure out some way for existing characters to expend ADDITIONAL skill points, experience, and time in order to obtain access to those droids. Integrating them into the Droid Engineer profession does not accomplish this. Certs do not accomplish this. A Droid Commander profession does accomplish this, but you have drawn a line in the sand and said that Droid Commander is unacceptable. That's fine, but don't blame them for it.
Tons of alternate suggestions have been pitched, not just those two... good ones to boot. I can't judge which one is best according to their standards because they continue to deny or ignore the suggestions that doconform with their standards (see the Droid Invasion post where TH put down guidelines) for other reasons (time, money, bleah, bleah).
Hmm... I'll have to go back and look, because I can't remember any others. Every suggestion that I remember either involved certs in some way, involved rolling the new combat droids into the existing DE skill tree, or was itself some variation on a new profession (which includes Drashk's micro-profession). If you could dig up a few examples of ideas that are not one of those things, I'd love to see them again.
I don't fault them for not always remembering to state all of the constraints up front. I'm sure that they don't always know what all of the constraints are until they actually get into the code and start working on an idea. However, I do fault them for not making the constraints clear to us once they have been discovered.
Compromise occurs between equals. We're not equals here. They own the game and are responsible for how it works. If they establish some sort of ground rule, we have to accept it because those ground rules are established to keep projects of manageable size. If you can't accept the ground rules, your only recourse is to stop paying to play the game.
Here's my response to that idea, Kollos....
Thunderheart wrote: "I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be."
Yes, but that change in the course of development did not violate their ground rules. That's the only reason Thunderheart was able to get it done. I'm sure it made a lot of developers unhappy, but since not adding the Droid Handler profession did not, by itself, violate any of their constraints they were able to put on the brakes and stop it before it happened.
Kollos wrote:
Virtanis wrote:
Kollos wrote:
Virtanis wrote:
The root of the question again is: How to implement >CL10 droids in the game. They have not budged from their position an inch (their position being inputting a DH profession).
Of course not. They have said that introducing >CL10 combat droids into the game would disrupt the balance unless access to those droids is paid for in skill points, experience, and time. Since they are responsible for the ground rules, we can't expect them to compromise when what we're asking for violates one of those ground rules.
We can and shouldexpect them to adopt a system that is balanced and fair while also meeting the demands of their players. It's also my belief this can be done without the DH profession.
Agreed. And as long as we're working within their constraints, they seem to bewilling to go along with whatever we want. Canceling DH is a good example of that willingness.
Geez, people talk of it likeSOE istrying to reinvent the wheel here!
We don't really know for sure... they might be. As they have alluded to many times, Droids are woven into the very core of the game from a mechanical point of view. Changing droids seems to be a monumentally difficult task... comparing it to reinventing the wheel might not be such a bad comparison.
If you want >CL10 combat droids, you're going to have to figure out some way for existing characters to expend ADDITIONAL skill points, experience, and time in order to obtain access to those droids. Integrating them into the Droid Engineer profession does not accomplish this. Certs do not accomplish this. A Droid Commander profession does accomplish this, but you have drawn a line in the sand and said that Droid Commander is unacceptable. That's fine, but don't blame them for it.
Tons of alternate suggestions have been pitched, not just those two... good ones to boot. I can't judge which one is best according to their standards because they continue to deny or ignore the suggestions that doconform with their standards (see the Droid Invasion post where TH put down guidelines) for other reasons (time, money, bleah, bleah).
Hmm... I'll have to go back and look, because I can't remember any others. Every suggestion that I remember either involved certs in some way, involved rolling the new combat droids into the existing DE skill tree, or was itself some variation on a new profession (which includes Drashk's micro-profession). If you could dig up a few examples of ideas that are not one of those things, I'd love to see them again.
I don't fault them for not always remembering to state all of the constraints up front. I'm sure that they don't always know what all of the constraints are until they actually get into the code and start working on an idea. However, I do fault them for not making the constraints clear to us once they have been discovered.
Compromise occurs between equals. We're not equals here. They own the game and are responsible for how it works. If they establish some sort of ground rule, we have to accept it because those ground rules are established to keep projects of manageable size. If you can't accept the ground rules, your only recourse is to stop paying to play the game.
Here's my response to that idea, Kollos....
Thunderheart wrote: "I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be."
Yes, but that change in the course of development did not violate their ground rules. That's the only reason Thunderheart was able to get it done. I'm sure it made a lot of developers unhappy, but since not adding the Droid Handler profession did not, by itself, violate any of their constraints they were able to put on the brakes and stop it before it happened.
I'm at a loss. I've been trying to come up with a solution, but I just don't see one that does not involve either an all-new profession like Droid Handler, or at the very least a micro-profession like the one Drashk came up with.
This post needs a color-coated legend to keep track of who is saying what. 
Kollos wrote:
Of course not. They have said that introducing >CL10 combat droids into the game would disrupt the balance unless access to those droids is paid for in skill points, experience, and time. Since they are responsible for the ground rules, we can't expect them to compromise when what we're asking for violates one of those ground rules.
/bow
Respectfully,