CUEmu - Thread Posts

meeuki

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:07 am

Well...it's not battle bots right now. But it is 'Pet Wars'. Would you rather it stay that way?

you are right. i would much rather see droids than pets. and i suppose it is unavoidable. people will always want an easy solution to combat, it might as well be droids.

I don't think we will ever see droids really be "what they were in the movies". It's just not possible via the technical limitations and the time/money to code what would be needed to even marginally approach that level.

We need to stop asking to go to the moon when just getting into orbit is a lot more close to what's possible.

i think this is flat out wrong. it would not take much at all to make droids useful now. what did droids do in the movies? c3p0 spouted off nonsense. aren't the personality chips for droids fairly borked now? how about those get fixed?
what did r2 do? he enhanced stuff. FIXED THINGS. he opened some doors. imo a change like being able to add enhance tapes to droids would be a godsend. fixes to the DE profession. i can't see how it would be that hard to think up a few nice ideas for current droids and implement them. would it really take that much time/money? i personally won't ever stop trying for it. i'm not giving up on my stupid satchel-droid.

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Soronume

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:22 am

#15

So we have finally reached this point.

If we are talking about a new "droid handler/commander" profession, then it's time to move it from the DE boards to someplace else. This is the type of change that will massivly alter this game, and it should be in more hands than just the crafters that will supply the pets.

But until TH opens that thread, it will stay here, and we will toss it back and forth from our own point of view. what will get us the most credits. what will allow us to sell the most pets and make more clients happy. this will ignorewhat is good for the game, the other professions,and what has that "star wars feel"

let's look at history. people were slow. they wanted to be faster. the devs gave us mounts. lots of them. 6ish. and everyone was happy, and CH's made lots of money. then 2 weeks later they released 3 vehicles and you could only use 1 without destroying it to get another.but people still picked vehicles.since that day, how many mounts have you seen? sure mounts are cool, they can help you fight, and you don't even have to get off the thing to fight...but noone cares. vehicles are faster, and they are what everyone uses.

So we need to move this discussion to a more public forum and talk about the future of this game with a DH in it. because right now i'm leaning on opening up the CH profession to let them control droids or creatures. and they become our combat outlet. if you have 25 Creature levels, then you can spend that on a creature or a droid. it's not like there is any difference in the code between the two. let's stop acting like there is.

My Glowie

HawkCormyr

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:27 am

#16

Personnly as MDEi am not against the concept of a DH,i am against the DH just to handle droid , you cannot fill a wholeadvanced profession tree with only handling droids.

What have made be agaisnt the DH is that we have no information about what could do a DH :

What in the DH treejustify a whole profession ,
we never get an answer for that question ...

what will be the prerequisite profession(s) to gain acess to the DH tree,
we never get an answer to this question ...

Will the cost point for DH allow to pick Master artisant, master DE , and Master DH to allow the hybrid combination crafter adventurer ,
We never get an answer to this question ...

So first let someone ( Drashk or TH or -g or any Devs )describe what they have in mind for the DH , let usexpress what we think of it and maybe rework it a little bit.

But as far as the DH isonly a way to implementcertificationi will say no to DH ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I will tell you this, Droids (and DE's) are going to be the MAIN feature
for the January publish. We will be fixing alot of things and adding
combat droids. Yes, talk is cheap." - JustG 11/25/03
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pluto9Moon

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:46 am

#17

Everyone knows I am for DC.
I hope everyone knows I am against DC being incorporated into CH.
I see DH as fundamentally different.

Here is a copy of things I think you can fill 12 boxes with from another post:

The Droid Commander does not have to be like CH. I see CH as the brawler line of pets. Whereas I see DC as a shooter line of pets. Here is were you can fill 12 boxes with "stuff" to make an entire profession. There are 6 weapon damage types: Heat, Cold, Electricity, Blast, Energy, and Acid (not counting Stun and Kinetic). What each branch of a tree might represent: Maintnence (better LE Repair Droid repair per level {granted it has to work first}), Weapons Systems (insert use of better CL and progressing to LLC and Flamethrower type weapons here), Target Acquisition (Guard, Guard Area, Guard Red Agro mobs, maybe Guard Faction??), and Special Attacks (a Strafe Shot or Cone type Damage).

Sign for Hutt Faction here: Hutt Faction

Not against broad changes, just profession specific ones (read as CH) that go against what we've been told in the past.
(I hired Trayson as a ghost writer for a good tagline)

Alacrity

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:49 am

#18

Though I was originally against the Droid Commander idea, I was starting to warm up to it (thinking that's the way the wind was blowing. Then it got yanked off the talbe, and I was sad.

Amoon Darkflier, Elder Artisan, Elder Droid Engineer, Elder Merchant

"I find your lack of pants disturbing."

GnomeAd

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:51 am

#19

TK, once again, we find ourselves in agreement.

As a group, we need to start accepting that droid certs are not ever going to happen. I'll say that agin for emphasis, droid certs are not going to happen. No other profession will have combat droids either. Each profession in this game has a place (even though some are quite vague at this time) and to add any additional content to them would be unbalancing. We need to accept both these premises and move on. The question we need to be asking ourselves right now is: Are we willing to accept a DH class knowing that it is the only way to get high level combat droids in the game? Every post from the devs since this whole fiasco broke has been leading up to this, so we need to start talking about it.

We can be almost completely sure of one thing and that is that this will happen eventually. SOE has spent entirely too much time and effort developing it. They will not waste that, and as customers of this company, we shouldn't want them to. My personal opinion is that they were planning on putting it off for several months (after the SE for sure) and then they were going to put it in anyway. We can either work with them to make sure they get it right, or stand around heming and hawing and just get what they give us. The choice is up to us.

One of the things I think we need to start having a productive discussion about is what content this class should have. Just being a profession that fights with droids is not enough. That was my main objection to the DH class from the beginning. What should this profession be able to do besides fight with droids?

-Edited for typo.

Message Edited by GnomeAd on 02-18-2004 11:53 AM

meeuki

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:52 am

#20

Pluto9Moon wrote:
Everyone knows I am for DC.
I hope everyone knows I am against DC being incorporated into CH.
I see DH as fundamentally different.

Here is a copy of things I think you can fill 12 boxes with from another post:

The Droid Commander does not have to be like CH. I see CH as the brawler line of pets. Whereas I see DC as a shooter line of pets. Here is were you can fill 12 boxes with "stuff" to make an entire profession. There are 6 weapon damage types: Heat, Cold, Electricity, Blast, Energy, and Acid (not counting Stun and Kinetic). What each branch of a tree might represent: Maintnence (better LE Repair Droid repair per level {granted it has to work first}), Weapons Systems (insert use of better CL and progressing to LLC and Flamethrower type weapons here), Target Acquisition (Guard, Guard Area, Guard Red Agro mobs, maybe Guard Faction??), and Special Attacks (a Strafe Shot or Cone type Damage).

no other combat class has access to all damage types. you are proposing a profession that has access to everything, and can be coupled with 1 or possibly 2 combat professions?

part of the bounty hunter appeal is their access to a wide variety of damage types. commando as well. will the DC/DH you envision require a comparable # of skill points?

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Meplorium

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:56 am

#21

My pet wookie is both a BE and CH. It is quite a powerful combination and enjoyable to play. CH despite all the nerfs and pet bugs, remains a very popular class. People enjoy having pets. Adding more option in this area is a good thing, not a bad one.

There are several good reasons to have a DC class. First there is a well fleshed out template to use, CH, and the Dev have experience enough to get this close to beingbalanced from the start. Second they aren't going to give anyone droids that are of any real use without a full profession. This does make sense since pets are very powerful, even after all the nerfs. The whole cert system or mini-profession never made any sense to me given the current game mechanics. Adding more utility (non-combat related tasks)for different professions into the lower level droids makes perfect sense however, and that can address profession specific droids without inbalancing combat.

CH is hugely popular, so is ice cream. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream though, some like vanallia. DC can be a different flavor of CH. People seem to some how be against a carbon copy profession. While I disaggree that adding more flavor to the game, even if it is similar, is a bad thing like many here seem to think it is, I do aggree if DC was just a carbon copy of CH save for using different skined pets a great opportunity would be passed up.

The place where CH and DC and differentiate themselves isn't in the power of the pets, that will need to remain constant for balance reason, but how such pets use the power they have. Having the droid pets and animal pets look different does not take it far enough. The AI needs to be reworked in such a way that using one pet gives a different experience than using another pet. CH's have this to some extent with different AI on animal skins and people pick animals based on more than just looks.

Droids have the ability to do different damage types. Droids have a different damage recovery mechanism. You can't stim a droid. Droids can be made disposable. The mouse droid with a bomb is a great idea actually and I am confused why people aren't jumping all over that. I do aggree that current droid usage isn't convienent enough to use droid bombs and how to use them needs to be worked on. Droids are mostly ranged and perform a different task than the tank pet. They can be used as range support and used for directing 'traffic' in a battle. Giving droids the ability to use warning shot is agreat example of this. Thiscould bean optional module that uses droid energy so it can be used limited times, but can have a great effect, if used wisely. There are other specials that can be assigned to droids that are unique that can use a droid specials HAM type bar.

I think too many people rushed to judgement and said no to DC before thinking it out and trying to get a system that is similar enough to CH to be balanced yet different enough to be unique. DC can be a great profession if done correctly. That however is the problem.

Message Edited by Meplorium on 02-18-2004 10:24 AM

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Jenden

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:04 am

#22

meeuki wrote:

no other combat class has access to all damage types. you are proposing a profession that has access to everything, and can be coupled with 1 or possibly 2 combat professions?

part of the bounty hunter appeal is their access to a wide variety of damage types. commando as well. will the DC/DH you envision require a comparable # of skill points?

I'm thinking that droids would have a much lower damage output than players, so yes, they may have a wide variety of types, but then again they'd also do a lot less damage. Also I'd say droids shouldn't be quite as good of tanks as creatures, meaning they need to make up for it in another area (such as damage types).

Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

Vampiric_Hoshi

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:11 am

#23

I've been thinking over this a long time now, and two things occur to me;

Most of us did not want DE turned into a CH profession, which prompted DC in the first place

But on the other hand, we also want to be able to control what we produce which puts a DE in a tricky spot here.

As a DE, you are heavily required to master Artisan. To try and make a living you are also required to get ATLEAST 3/0/0/01 of Merchant and not forgetting mastering DE as well. Add to that the "needed" novice skills to survive in this game like medic and scout for terrain navigation, that doesn't leave us with enough points to master ANOTHER profession to allow us to use what we make.

We are a rare bread. On one hand people will compare us to Weaponsmiths and give the argument "Weaponsmiths arnt likely to master a weapon skill to use their weapons so why should DE be able too?" and on the other we are compared to Bio Engineers who CAN master BE and master CH (efectively using their own products) as they both stem off the same novice profession.

Personaly? If I can build a Droideka then I want to have enough skill points to learn whatever profession needed to use it. That, ultimately, means one thing.

Before a DC profession is added, DE's reliance on Master Artisan needs to be removed. Master Artisan components should COMPLIMENT the quality of a droid and not be a REQUIREMENT. Much in the same way BE compliment Tailors and Cheifs compliment BE's.

My point is that I'm not against the idea of a Droid Commander/Handler profession so long as I am able to me a good DE and a good DC

Abandon all hope

Arcid

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 am

#24

Ok, here are the things I think need to be answered properly before we can give a proper response to a DH profession

1: Will Droid Engineer be fixed - If the new profession is put in will there still be a focus on geting DE fixed and to a state comparable to other crafting professions. (This is an overall combination of experimentation, droid decay etc)

2: What would Droid handler entail - This is the basic "What's it got?" question, at the moment we only have vague ideas about what a DH profession would do, we don't even know what the prerequites would be. A provisional skilltree would be a terrific answer to this, but an oerview of how 16 boxes of trees, plus a master and novice box, could be filled without usurping skills that would be better in DE or Squad leader. ( As I see it DE has as much claim in its current form to having multiple droids out at the same time)

3: Would Droid Engineer become a support class for a DH profession alone ( as BE is to CH) or would it be expandable to become an overall support class for just about all the other professions? (Basicly I think thatwhether or not DH is implementedwe need those utility modules that have been talked about, otherwise we will end up just crafting

Sodan-droiddreamer

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am

#25

TheRealTK421 wrote:

Heya, all...

There's been a lot of people scratching their heads at my posts and change of attitudelately. I guess I would be too, were I in another's shoes....

We all know that things haven't changed for DEs fundamentally since release but the time has sort of arrived when that will cease to be the case. I think we all know that they Devs have been working very hard to give us what they believed we were after...higher-level combat droids (via the inclusion of the DH/DC class).

True, they didn't quite take the path that we wanted....but they DID do the work.

I am starting to be okay with the DH/DC thing. Is it my perfect solution? No. But, I can accept the fact that we aren't going to get our "perfect" solution.

One of the things that is starting to make me thing that DH/DC wouldn't be so bad......comments from my clients.

I wanted to be a DE to make cool droids. Yes, I want them for ME to use too. However, I also wanted them for others to enjoy. Making droids that other people would really love and find cool was a big part of what led me to want to get and keep DE in the first place.

A lot of my clients in game don't watch the forum boards too much so they aren't aware of where things are 'at', beyond the fact that there is droid 'stuff' in the works. Most of them still believed that this meant we would all be seeing higher-level combat droids sooner than later. So, I start educating them on where we stand and what the future may hold...

Whenever the DH/DC thing comes up, I always tend to hear them say....

'That would be so cool. I'd take a DH/DC class in a minute if I knew I could start using 'Roger, Roger' droids or Destroyers.'

...or...

'Man, I can't wait for them to get DH/DC out so that I can finally get a cool combat droid instead of this silly creature.'

There's a lot of comments like that. Most, in fact, are very very positive about the possibilities and, indeed, looked forward to being able to get into DC/DH. Then, last night, the final comment that made me really think.

"Why did you DEs kill off the DH/DC idea? I know a ton of people that would have loved to have been working on that right now and using them instead of pets."

I suddenly realized....my earlier vehemence against DH/DC as a way to get combat droids was all well and good for MY vision of how they should be added. But I hadn't been thinking of my clients. I had been selfishly wanting things to happen my way and my way, only. And that meant, no DH/DC class.

Now, I actually am kind of okay with it if they decide it HAS to go that way. The reason?

My clients will dig it. I'll probably sell quite a lot of them.I'll be making droids that people will love and want to use and find cool.

And that's a huge aspect of why I wanted to be a DE in the first place.

Let me give you a "Sodan style" breakdown:

Bullcrap.

Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)

Korbus

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:25 am

#26

TK,

I got responses like that, too, when I mentioned the DH / DC debate to a few players I regularly hunt with. Sure it's not the best solution to the problem, but the more I thought about it the more I warmed up to the idea of a DH / DC profession. There are a lot of people out there who would flock to the idea of having a Droideka Destroyer Droid following them around.

Arkane
Master Weaponsmith / Droid Engineer
Vector Industries CEO
Hrafnstadt, Naboo (2166, 3807)

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Thread: Reconsidering DH/DC class: Why I am starting to be 'okay' with it...