Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Some remarks about Droids/DE's by Raph
However, going back to a previous person's point. Sure you don't need a cert to have a toaster, tv, or whatever. But you do need one to operate a car, aircraft etc. We are talking about Combat Droids here,machines designed to kill on their own. I am certain that if such a thing existed in today's world it would highly restricted and illegal for the ordinary citizen.
You cannot get into your car and say, "Take me to the airport."
You can tell a droid, "Go clean out the vaporators on the south 40, and if you see any Tuscan Raiders, blow them up".
My response wasn't a flame - it was a bit less verbose than I usually am 
(And I just about never flame on these boards - not a good idea as a merchant who posts under his own in-game name 
)
However, my thoughts are that a droid's AI controls what it does. The owners of the droid armies did not have to control the droideka's or the roger-roger bots. No, they just said, "Go get em!" and off they went.
Now, if they let us have droid armies, then yes, I could see having a cert for those - someone who knew how to program the master battle computer to control multiple droids.
With this said - Holo has indicated that there will either be certs or a droid handler class (there are other threads on this). Given how awful the latter idea is, I would prefer the former - and there are threads on this, as well.
I guess my main fear of certs in general is that they will be done in a ham-fisted manner, and I fear that I won't be able to use my own droids. One of the reasons I am a DE is because I like the toys I can make, and want to be able to use them.
Sorry Sketh, actually I was protecting myself from flames on the idea of the Elite Droid Master profession idea. I didn't think your post was a flame.
The problem with the elite-elite and droid handler profession is that, basically, Droid Engineers would not be able to take that profession.
In order to be a DE, you, for all intents and purposes, must also be a master artisan. No other class has the sort of dependancy on another class that the DE profession does. Yes, Arch needs a few MA items for some furnature (e.g., data terminals), and droid storage as an (optional) component in the crafting stations. Yes, tailor needs to make cloth for armorsmiths - but this can be factory run, and is only one type of item.
However, every single advanced droid needs a cart-load of MA parts.
So, where does this leave DE's if there is an elite-elite or BH profession? Either with NO combat skills at all, or without the ability to use their own droids.
A BE is almost always a CH as well. They can do this, and get a weapon because of the lack of other dependncies. True, I have to often go assist my BE friend when resources shift, as his surveying skills are ... lacking... but it isn't the same as having to fill up an entire set of skill trees to be viable.
Not to argue but to just point out. I am not a Master Artisan,I am fortunate to be friends with an Architect that is. I didn't want to be justa crafter, I wanted to get bloody too.So I have saved mypoints, and Iam working toward Squad Leader, but I am reconsidering.
In any case it is possible to be a just a DE without being an MA.
When I saidElite Droid Master Profession, I meant the prereq for being one was being a Master Droid Engineer.
Raj of Theed
Yes, it is possible to be a DE w/o being an MA - not saying that it is not.
However, it is a major pain.
NO other class is that dependant on someone else to make everything they need - and we aren't talking optional parts.
Now, given how MA parts are needed for droids, why not make it possible to learn those MA parts when you reach master DE? Or put one MA part at the top of each of the DE trees.
I have to do 2 factory runs a day - when I can play that long - and often, they are MA parts. What is funny is that the other "technical" professions often come to the DE's - as they don't want to have to take MA, and don't want to. They can buy a few crates here and there, and be done with it. Not so for the DE.
It's possible, yes, as I do the same thing. However, I think we can agree that we depend more on the MA parts than any other profession. Whether we do it ourselves, to make our lives much easier, or we heckle a friend to pump out Module crates for us, making a new profession just to use the Droids is a bit silly.
Some droids are meant for everyone to use. Some are meant for only skilled people to use (skilled in Any profession. See below). And some, I feel, are so powerful that only a Droid Engineer should be able to use them.
As far as Certs, here's how I think they should work....All droids are classified into five levels: Universal, Lower, Medium, High, Elite. Universal droids are ones that everyone can use and are very, very basic. The certification to use Lower droids comes at the third tier of every Basic profession skill tree (every third-tier skill in every basic profession tree line has the Cert). The Medium comes in every Novice skill of every Elite/Hybrid profession. The High certification comes at the second tier of every Elite/Hybrid profession. The Elite certification comes only in the Master Droid Engineer box.
It limits the greater droids from being used by the unskilled, but it also doesn't hamper the customers' choice as far as what droid they want.
C-Type -
Holo has said that Certs are gonna happen, be they certs or be it an entirely new profession of droid handler.
I agree, they are bad.
However, SOE has shown that once they are set on a course, they may be steered a bit (see also that they backed down a bit on the merchant vendor thing and the high level rifle thing), but they are not going to completely change a course once it has been declared.
So, it is better to try to come up with something that we can live with as opposed to just ranting about how bad certs are.
My opinions...
Current situation = The worst possible outcome.
Split the situation into Droid Engineers & Droid Handlers = Mindless, not in step with the movies, band-aid fix.
Skill Certification = Does not help DE's use their own creations, not in step with the movies, just dumb.
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My suggestion. Hear me out on this. Just like with vehicles are licensed and taxed by my great state of California, what about a "DroidRegistration Certificate" that is directly linked to the type or classof droid employed. Example: in reality, if you purchased a 60,000 dollar SUV in the state of California, car registration costs an arm and a leg each year you claim you're using that vehicle. A whole series of certificates can be "purchased" from planetary governments for the "registration, tracking, and administration" of these droids. This could be a deed item that shows up in your datapadand resemble the way maintenance works for houses or harvesters. You could viewthe status of your registration, cancel or modify it at any time withthe planetary government, addcredits, etc... A mouse droid with astorage module in it might have a maintenance fee of 1 while the Advanced R4 with 110 Medical module would be right in the middle, and of course, the truly advanced combat droids would be the "SUV's" of SWG... a bit costly, but certainly manageable.
It could work just like vehicle registration works: you still own the property and may retain your droid indefinitely, but in order for you to use it, you must be "current" on your Registration. If you're not current with your registration of your droid, you simply can't use it. DE's should have a significant reduction in these fees, by the way, since they could be "subsidized" by the planetary governments.
This is a multifaceted fix: It will hopefully help DE's sell more goods (but SOE still needs to make droids truly useful), it will help remove more cash from the economy, it will prevent the wanton ab(use) of droids (ala Pokemon pet situation we have currently). This could easily "fly" with the whole Star Wars saga since it's plausable that the governments might want to tax labor done by droids or something.Win, win, win situation.
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The Devs really still need to fix the droid lineup, make the modules work properly, add more combat droids, fix experimentation and customization and a whole MESS of other things... My suggestion above is purely to help prevent what is going on with Pets happening to droids AFTER all these problems are fixed.
Heck, they could even do this with Pets the way the system works now... that would go A LONG WAY to help this game with it's horrendous pet problem. 
XStarbracer wrote:
That would be the Stupidest Idea ever. In Star Wars ANYONE can use droids, they are fricking machines, you get them programed and they obey you dont need a damned handler class for droids. If the devs did this it'd show how stupid they are. Do I need a Certification to use my Printer? a Vacuum? a Computer? TV? Washing Machine? NO. They need to just fix the DE class and add more droids. Whats next, taming wild droids? LOL
Bzzzz... Wrong.
Sure you can use a TV, but is the average person capable of programming or operating factory CNC opertated machinery? I think not. Droid certs should be added to the DE tree. There should also be a bunch of droids everyone can use as well.
This is no different than creature pets. There are some that everyone can use and some that can only be controlled by skilled CH's. Unfortunately as it stands, the low end non-CH creatures are far better than the BEST combat droid.
Droid owners are not required to understand how to build a droid (thats the DE job), and while the game implimentation has the owner 'programing' it thats not whats happening in 'real' terms (whats really happening is the existing program is being tied to a specific command).
In the films people just told R2 and 3PO what to do and the droids just got on and did it - no programing required
Creatures on the other hand have instinctive behaviour and, using real world pets as an example, just because your dog will obey you doesnt mean it will obey someone else.
Granted mounts dont have this issue (as much) but then again all thats really required of a mount is to travel in the required direction and stop when instructed (and theres usually some mechanical aid for the rider such as reigns) its also worth mentioning that people in the real world dont tend to train naturally aggressive animals as mounts
So the VCR/TV analogy is correct - if anything you need even less skill to tell a droid wat to do because all you actually have to do is actually 'tell' it to do it