Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: What does Repeat Business mean?
HRRNighthawk
Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:40 pm
#14
Personally i think a decay system for replacement will work, however it should be based on usage and my question would be could a value on each module of the droid be tied into a PC's skill usage of their abilities. For instance, say a buff-bot has a R4 i made with medical 110/storage lvl 6/chem. crafting station. Each have a theoretical value pulled out of the air to be discussed later. Now, every time that buff bot uses their buffs, the value goes down 1. So for each person they buff the value on each of the medical modules goes down by a total of 6 (for those non-combat people...there's 6 buffs). Each time they open the storage it goes down 1 and every time they open a chemical crafting tool it goes down by 1. That way, droids wouldn't become entirely useless in all functionality, they'd simply become broken down and to the point of disrepair where they'd eventually want a new one. The hard cap of 5 max droids per person keeps this in check so people don't just have a bunch of old droids with storage modules in their data pad that no longer serve their primary function and they buy new ones. The key thing would be the inability to just buy a new module and stick it into it. That would ruin the whole thing. I believe this sytem would keep prices basically where they are..while slightly increasing demand of repeat customers every few weeks. Enough to give the DEs more cashflow and stem the overflowing wallets of people like doctors. The same would go for people with harvester droids...but i wouldn't want those as extreame as they don't make as much off of it. The same would go for entertainers...whom have enough trouble getting cash already and so theirs should have the highest values on their types of modules (the effects i mean).
Now to tie that in...there is currently only one line of experimentation for almost every droid. Tie in the quality experimentation line to make things have a higher starting decay value would be the easiest idea to impliment and make DEs and consumers make a choice sometimes between quality and longevity. This would also give the 12pt crafters among us (of which i do not belong to as of now) some advantages in in the marketplace.
What i *wouldn't* suggest is that the value of the modules goes down over time...like 110med goes down to 100 then 90..etc. That'd totally devalue our product and people like the doctors would just go to buffing in the hospitals.
Rihtan
Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:54 am
#15
For me "Repeat Business" means some method that increases the general demand for droid type activity. What I really want is more complicated.
I don’t want to have to go out there and act like a car salesman and try to persuade people that they want a droid which they really don't need or want.
I don’t want to turn out hundreds and hundreds of identical cookie cutter droids because that’s the only way to make a profit.
I REALLY don’t want to have to spend 10 hours a week on DE to make a living.
I want to make droids.
I want to customize droids.
I want droids to be unique.
I want to sell droids to people that want to buy a droid.
I want people to like droids enough that occasionally they need to seek me out, not my vendor, to do some work on their droid.
I want droids to be fun.
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Compared to Striker I'm defiantly a casual player. I have one account and only one character. I may play for 12 hours a week max. Of that I try to spend at least 4 hours just poking around and having fun while the rest of my time gets spent crafting/harvesting. I have one vendor but there is almost no droid stuff on it, just Architect stuff. I do all my droid stuff out of my bag.
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If I had my way the DE profession would be focused a lot more on the customization of droids. The mass-produced droids would never be the top of the line, Ok, but never the best. Once a droid was built then the opportunity would exist to customize it and tinker and truly make each droid unique. Sort of like what happens in the Star Wars universe.
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I don’t want to have to go out there and act like a car salesman and try to persuade people that they want a droid which they really don't need or want.
I don’t want to turn out hundreds and hundreds of identical cookie cutter droids because that’s the only way to make a profit.
I REALLY don’t want to have to spend 10 hours a week on DE to make a living.
I want to make droids.
I want to customize droids.
I want droids to be unique.
I want to sell droids to people that want to buy a droid.
I want people to like droids enough that occasionally they need to seek me out, not my vendor, to do some work on their droid.
I want droids to be fun.
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Compared to Striker I'm defiantly a casual player. I have one account and only one character. I may play for 12 hours a week max. Of that I try to spend at least 4 hours just poking around and having fun while the rest of my time gets spent crafting/harvesting. I have one vendor but there is almost no droid stuff on it, just Architect stuff. I do all my droid stuff out of my bag.
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If I had my way the DE profession would be focused a lot more on the customization of droids. The mass-produced droids would never be the top of the line, Ok, but never the best. Once a droid was built then the opportunity would exist to customize it and tinker and truly make each droid unique. Sort of like what happens in the Star Wars universe.
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Message Edited by Rihtan on 02-17-2005 12:55 PM
Straker_Atrella
Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:57 am
#16
I also should point out that of all the Droids on my vendors, about 50% are Hand crafted if not more. I only factory run a few models, and that's to ensure quality.
Straker_Atrella
Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:43 am
#17
YodaMac wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Yoda, that is a great thread, with some good points, let me make some of my own.
You admit that you are not a DE to make money, you are a DE to make droids. The problem is that there are some of us that are in it for money AND droids. I support my DE, as well as my Combat character. For example I spent 3 million on rifles yesterday, and there is an Armor Attachment on the boards that is going for 20 million that I would love to have, but that would take far to much of my cash. A different crafter or combatent with hundreds of millions will get it. Cash matters to some of us.
I can’t deny the fact that many other players have multiple accounts with multiple characters that they play, but I also won’t base my chosen profession’s future on the needs of those other toons. I play one profession, one character, one account, and one game. I am in SWG for Droid Engineering, so yes, this profession is my top priority. No apologies.
What does multiple accounts haveto do with it? Absolutly nothing. There are DE's who fight, DE is only half their character. Under your motto "Droids arn't about money," they will never be able to have good weapons like others. You can be a DE, yet still be a pilot. I want a Firespray, that's 5-6 Million credits. I like having an AV-21, it cost me 3 million credits. I want a Metal Recycler, those go for about 5 million. I also want gas and chemical.
The list goes on and on, even with only one account, there are "wants" that people have. They need to bid against other (and often richer,) people to get those wants. Just because you or some other DE's don't care about such things doesn't mean that DE should not be a viable money maker.
The problem is that if DE's make good money, those who don't care can give the money away or do whatever they want with it. Yet for those who are "anti-money," in their plan for the profession, it leaves the people who have a use for money out in the cold.
Everything that you said about being a GOOD merchant and your vendor is 100% true. I do that. I operate 2 vendor locations, and each stocks 200+ droids, of all different types, Med, Combat, Harvestors, Space, Entertainer, you name it I have it. My droids are the best the server can make, nobody makes them better, in fact, on some stuff nobody makes them as good. I stock EVERYTHING that goes with droids as well, 1777 power 47 charge droid stims, customs kits, BH droids, everything. I even sell protocol chasis for shuttleports and recon kits cheap for tailors.
I advertise a lot, a lot, I get a ton of word of mouth traffic as well, plusI have an awesome relationship with my customers. Many people get free droids from friends or guildmates, so not everybody buys droids. Yet I probably pull about 70% of the people that actually buy droids, so I am obviously doing something right. The problem is that everybody else is doing "better."
Your perception that "everyone else is doing better" is, as you admit, based solely on credit income. And that is my fear for all Droid Engineers; that important decisions about the very core of our profession will be decided by those who are looking solely at credits.
They are NOT doing better as far as I'm concerned. If I thought they had it better, then I would become a weaponsmith or a chef, but I don’t. Droid Engineering is still the "better" profession to me because of it's very uniqueness. It isn’t about grinding out crates of stimpacks/armors/blasters daily. I get to actually craft and play like I'm really making something- something with permanence in this virtual galaxy, something that helps other players achieve their goals in the game and stays with them. And for myself, I don’t want to just harvest resources, shove them in a factory, then pile identical crates on a vendor…over and over...and the great thing about DE is that this profession doesn’t have to do that… so far, anyways. And I intend to encourage our fellow DE's to hold onto that as long as possible.
Many of us successfully play a single character on a single account and are doing just fine as a DE. Do I make as many credits per hour as another crafter? Not an issue as long as I make enough to keep crafting droids. That is what the profession is about. This has never been a profession for the credit-hungry. Anyone who has really played DE since SWG began knows that. (as opposed to the many holo-grinders who came and went) And to try and make us fit the credit-driven mold of those other mind-numbing crafting professions will lead to yet another “grind craft”.
I have been a DE for a long time, the only reason I stick with it is becauseI LOVE Droids. It's not all about the money, yet I like credits as well, so I can afford the things I like.
Decay doesn't mean destroying the profession, it will always be the same profession. I know Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths and Chefs who also love their profession, they hand craft, they don't care about the money, they just do it for fun.For example, Iknow an Armorsmith who wont wear any armor he doesn't make himself, I don't htink he makes for anybody else. These people have just as much fun doing special orders and crafting as you do.
They have plenty of fun in professions that have plenty of credit potential, they just choose not to chase the credit. DE should be no different. The ability to make just as much money as other crafters should be there, Yet people can choose to play less casual and and still have fun.
In a healthy profession, people have a choice, Right now that choice does not exist.
For example, I spend about 40 hours a week dealing with droid stuff, and I make about 2 million a week (some more some less,) that works out to be about 50,000 cr an hour. Yes 50k credits an hour. Considering that on my combatent, I can make about 300k an hours, that is 1/6 of what combatents make. A top Armorsmith or Weaponsmith can make 20-50 MILLION a week, if not more, Chefs and Docs are about the same.
So what is the difference? 2 things really, their products are more needed, and their products wear out. They have customers who come back and buy the same thing over and over again. We do not.
Thank goodness! I want players to come back and buy droids…but because the droid has a new or improved feature to offer – not the same droid over and over again because it keeps going “poof” every month. I don’t want DE to become like the other crafting professions because of the exact repetitive “grind craft” you speak of. What would our game-play become?....
And as soon as our droids become “short-lived”, what makes you think you’ll be able to charge anywhere near what you can now for a droid that lasts long-term? You may not be able to sell a whole crateful of monthly-decaying droids for the price of a mouse droid today…
The problem is this. There are many professions in the game, plus a HUGE need for content, this means the Devs have a lot more lot worry about then keeping DE's in new droid models and features. We may see some DE love about once a year, if that. So these new chasis, features, and models you talk about will be few and far between.
This means that it will be EXACTLY like the other times we got new features. A ton of sales right away, as people want the new stuff, then sales taper off and die. This is not healthy.
I don't know where you got this "monthly replacement," number at, that's not thep rime goal we are shooting for. If anything, it would be about the fastest a Droid would decay. For example, a Doc Buffbot with a Droid out 24 hours a day. He may need to replace his monthly. That buffbot probably made 10 million credits plus in that month, is it wrong to buy another 40k Med droid? Another example is a Harvest Droid that get's used for say 8 hours a day. The extra meat he brought in gave his owner an extra 20 million credits, shouldn't he buy another droid for 85k?
Casual users would get a few months.
I burn through a set of 200k composite every week, why should Droids last forever?
If you read my decay proposal, I actually have a part at the end, that even allows people to get the same droid back "reworked" in a way. My goal is to make EVERYBODY happy, not just me.
Sure I get the same people coming back to my shop, they may buy a crafting droid today, then a combat droid next week, then a Harvestor, but eventually they will have no more need for droids.
Yes droids are fun, I love droids. However, just because some DE's don't care about money doesn't mean that we should just forget about the DE's that do. We want to buy stuff too.
Straker_Atrella
Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:47 am
#18
YodaMac wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Oops one more point to make, you may be reading my other post and I didn't want you to miss it.
About the BH and Seeker Droids. I do make them, I make and sell a ton of them. Yet the profit on them is abysmally low, hardly worth the time. Yet I stock them so people may buy something else.
Why is the profit so low? Because undercutters who don't care about making even a medium profit have pushed them that low.
Yes, good point. Droid consumables do NOT sell for very high prices and are boring to make. Now just think what our profession will be like whenall our droids are short-lived consumables being sold only by the crate-load.
There will always be folks using their “alts” to mass-produce what they and their buddies need to keep fighting, and selling the rest for cheap because they don’t care about the profession. Let’s not give them any more ammo.
A droid that needs replaced every 1-4 months is hardly a consumable that is on par with BH droids or paint kits.
Thats like calling a 5 million set of PVP armor or a Million dollar T21a consumable. Those need replaced as well.
With Decay droids will be just as much fun to build and put together, the only difference is that you will get to build more of them.
Eceen
Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:10 am
#19
I completely agree with you here Yoda. I enjoy personalizing each droid and making each unique to the customer not mass production. I dont want them to come back because their droid broke. I want customers to come back because they can rely on my product. How about another option for those who want to sell more. We have flight computers that you can use at certain levels of pilot, why not then introduce level droids to all other aspects. For example we will use harvest droids. A Novice scout buys a harvest droid that is applicable to their level and can then Harvest say 4 levels above themselves, and then a master ranger can harvest even more with a droid. That way they are applicable to everyone in the scout ranger profession, and as they progress through this profession they can upgrade so those we solve the problem of needed to increase the market as well as have good merchants and unique droids to everyone. Im sure we can think of otherways to fix our profession besides the easy bandaids that have been offered already. BREAK OUT THE GAUZE.
HRRNighthawk
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:06 am
#20
people buy 57 det power droids for a single use for 85k each from me and these BHs are maybe getting 200k from the jedi kill...if they even kill them after they use the droid. A buff-bot makes millions each day in profit after materials, harvester droids make their owners hundreds of thousands more each day for the expensive stuff they hunt than what they could harvest normally, crafting station droids/entertainer droids are luxury items now and still will be, but will still be in demand (last week i think i made a custom entertainer droid every night for a customer...dont' tell me they ain't got cash...and most of them were Novices). Basically, the 50-75k people will charge for a buff-bot/harvester/whatever is a drop in the bucket compared tothe millions in profits they will earn with said droid over several weeks-two months. There is *no* reason for the market price to drop...infact it might very well INCREASE due to the fact there are so few competant/capable/dedicated MDEs on each server and the time it takes to make said droids.
HRRNighthawk
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:10 am
#21
and nobody is saying you can't still sit down and customize a droid with/for someone. I enjoy that side too and there's several types of droids that i simply won't do factory runs on because it'd depend on the person's need. However, the things that are so needed by other professions and make them TONS of cash (medical/creature harvesters/combat are the main ones in my book) and require little imagination for customizing...give us a reason to make some cash off folks with these. Docs buy their stim packs...or supplies to make stim packs all the time...the medical droid they buy once. Combat folks buy armor/weapons all the time...month to month if they fight enough. They buy that combat droid or harvester droid for the stuff they kill once.
They've got the money...the market *won't* crash.
YodaMac
Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:52 am
#22
All I seeareseveral comments where people seem upset about how many credits a player is "making" from using the droid that they, the DE,sold them.... (again, focused only on the credit value of the profession)
Sounds to me that if you want to earn from your droid sales exactly what another player "may" gain from using the droid (which is ridiculous, since what the player gains is up to them and how they play...) then maybe you should just raise your prices, rather than try and force other DE's and players to lose their Plastic Pals.
TheRealTK421
Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:02 am
#23
/bow
YodaMac wrote:
All I seeareseveral comments where people seem upset about how many credits a player is "making" from using the droid that they, the DE,sold them.... (again, focused only on the credit value of the profession)
The fact of the matter is that the potential return on investment for a non-DE using a good quality droid is WAAAYYYY higher than the return on investment to the DE. It's not even close.
A Doctor can earn back what they spend on a Med droid in a matter of hours. And that's just one example.
Depending on what's made and sold, a crafter could earn back what they spend on a crafting droid in just one sale.
That sound fair to you?
Sounds to me that if you want to earn from your droid sales exactly what another player "may" gain from using the droid (which is ridiculous, since what the player gains is up to them and how they play...) then maybe you should just raise your prices, rather than try and force other DE's and players to lose their Plastic Pals.
No one's losing anything here, Yoda Mac. It would just need to be replaced occassionally, just as people have to often replace armor, weapons, food/spice or any number of other things.
A 'durable good', which droidsshould rightly fall into, doesn't equate to 'lasts (literally) forever'.
Respectfully,
YodaMac
Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:40 am
#24
TheRealTK421 wrote:
No one's losing anything here, Yoda Mac. It would just need to be replaced occassionally, just as people have to often replace armor, weapons, food/spice or any number of other things.
A 'durable good', which droidsshould rightly fall into, doesn't equate to 'lasts (literally) forever'.
I really don't think DE's (out of all players) should be trying so hard to lower the importance of droids to mere consumables like food/armor/weapons. There are big differences between them, and those are some of the most important "plusses" of the DE profession.
Reaperss
Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:53 am
#25
I have not read everypost in this thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. Droid Decay could destroy DE. Lets remember that that none of our products, exept BH droids, are necesary. Our products make things easier to do, but things can be done without them. The only droids that customers would continously replace would be medic droids and scout droids. Merchant barkers, Probots, crafting droids would not sell very well if they had to be replaced on a constatnt basis. What we need is the ability to change modules, more new droids and droids that are necesary to accomplish things in game.
TheRealTK421
Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:15 am
#26
Go tell that to the Docs that are buffing in the CNet starport currently.
Reaperss wrote:
I have not read everypost in this thread, so maybe this has been mentioned. Droid Decay could destroy DE. Lets remember that that none of our products, exept BH droids, are necesary.
Or to the crafters that don't like to be tied to the private crafting station in their house.
/bow
Respectfully,