Droid Engineer Archive

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jefmes wrote:

"AO wrote:

4. Droids are not complex enough for a shipwright system. The reason the shipwright system works the way it does is because each and every stat on each and every component has some bearing on the operation of the ship. This is not the case with droids - only modules have any effect on the droid. Further, this turns DE's into parts monkeys and many of us want to sell droids, not droid parts."

Since when are they not complex enough? They're not complex enough because of exactly what you said - every stat of every component doesn't factor into the droid's abilties. And they should! I don't want to be a parts monkey either, but the idea of a REAL droid market with people who can make individual systems (the new DEs perhaps?), people who assemble more simple droids from these parts (halfway to Master DEs?), and Masters who can do it all but choose to spend their time putting droids together at their finest rather than spend time making indivudual parts.

Droid Engineering in my mind has always been the profession that SHOULD be the most complex in the game due to the nature of artificial beings. It would seem to me that with the Alternative #4 system, which is my general preference, there would be room for all types of DEs.

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For what purpose, besides the "it would be neat" factor?

My comparison to shipwright was this : engines affect the speed of a droid, the capacitor affects the weapons recharge, the weapons affect the damage done, the shields reduce damage thearmor takes, the armor reduces the damage the ship takes, etc., etc. On top of that, there are mass concerns and reactor usage.

What do droids do that makes them worthy of that complexity?How manyindividual stats can we affect on droids (besides decay because, as ironic as it sounds, most decay proposals reflect some of what you are suggesting, to make theindividual parts matter more in the final droid)? Should we have the adv. motive system affect if the droid moves2.2m persecond instead of 2.0m per second? Or the brainquality make the droid follow the command in .5 seconds as opposed to .75 seconds?

Really, it's a nice idea, but in terms of game mechanics it just doesn't make any sense.Workingseveral times harder on our end...for what?

That's the point - unlike starships, which have many, many variables to affect, droids really don't have that many that are practical.

Yes,in terms of romance it would be nice, but in terms of gameplayyou are going to have a hard time convincing the devs and players that it all would be worth it for a product that hasit's major functions based on the modules in the first place.

AO

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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jefmes wrote:

"AO wrote:

4. Droids are not complex enough for a shipwright system. The reason the shipwright system works the way it does is because each and every stat on each and every component has some bearing on the operation of the ship. This is not the case with droids - only modules have any effect on the droid. Further, this turns DE's into parts monkeys and many of us want to sell droids, not droid parts."

Since when are they not complex enough? They're not complex enough because of exactly what you said - every stat of every component doesn't factor into the droid's abilties. And they should! I don't want to be a parts monkey either, but the idea of a REAL droid market with people who can make individual systems (the new DEs perhaps?), people who assemble more simple droids from these parts (halfway to Master DEs?), and Masters who can do it all but choose to spend their time putting droids together at their finest rather than spend time making indivudual parts.

Droid Engineering in my mind has always been the profession that SHOULD be the most complex in the game due to the nature of artificial beings. It would seem to me that with the Alternative #4 system, which is my general preference, there would be room for all types of DEs.

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For what purpose, besides the "it would be neat" factor?

My comparison to shipwright was this : engines affect the speed of a droid, the capacitor affects the weapons recharge, the weapons affect the damage done, the shields reduce damage thearmor takes, the armor reduces the damage the ship takes, etc., etc. On top of that, there are mass concerns and reactor usage.

What do droids do that makes them worthy of that complexity?How manyindividual stats can we affect on droids (besides decay because, as ironic as it sounds, most decay proposals reflect some of what you are suggesting, to make theindividual parts matter more in the final droid)? Should we have the adv. motive system affect if the droid moves2.2m persecond instead of 2.0m per second? Or the brainquality make the droid follow the command in .5 seconds as opposed to .75 seconds?

Really, it's a nice idea, but in terms of game mechanics it just doesn't make any sense.Workingseveral times harder on our end...for what?

That's the point - unlike starships, which have many, many variables to affect, droids really don't have that many that are practical.

Yes,in terms of romance it would be nice, but in terms of gameplayyou are going to have a hard time convincing the devs and players that it all would be worth it for a product that hasit's major functions based on the modules in the first place.

AO

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I think that's part of the point I'm trying to make, I WOULD like to have the motivator alter the speed of the droid, and the quality of the brain affect computations, like firing rates, time between module uses, etc. I agree the scales of quality of these components would need to be ballooned to a make noticable changes, so that a crappy motivator would give a sloooow droid and vice versa.

I very well may not be worth the development time, but it's what I'd ultimately like to see in a droid crafting/engineering profession. Parts that matter that combine to make the overall behaviour of the droid a sum of it's parts, and then through the interaction of those parts other interesting interactions could occur to make droids have quirks and personality.

Maybe not a realistic goal, but a goal nonetheless

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jefmes wrote:

I think that's part of the point I'm trying to make, I WOULD like to have the motivator alter the speed of the droid, and the quality of the brain affect computations, like firing rates, time between module uses, etc. I agree the scales of quality of these components would need to be ballooned to a make noticable changes, so that a crappy motivator would give a sloooow droid and vice versa.

I very well may not be worth the development time, but it's what I'd ultimately like to see in a droid crafting/engineering profession. Parts that matter that combine to make the overall behaviour of the droid a sum of it's parts, and then through the interaction of those parts other interesting interactions could occur to make droids have quirks and personality.

Maybe not a realistic goal, but a goal nonetheless

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It's a nice idea. Just beyond the scope of what we are talking about here. We are talking about our need for decay. Instead of thinking about how we wish it was, let's focus on how things are so then once our profession is healthy and self-renewing we can begin to think about ideas like these when we are in a position to ask for them.

AO

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YodaMac wrote:

IProblems with a Mandatory Droid Decay System:

1. Positively leads to "crated droids" sales method; turning our very interesting profession into a copy of the other credit-centric mass-production "grind craft" professions. Why do so few DE’s make bounty hunter droids? Why do so many DE’s complain that our current "consumables" are not making them credits? Decay turns our entire profession into crated consumables.

only if the decay rate is so high that droids wear out in a week or 2. the proposed method has them wearing out at east 3-4 months of normal use with normal upkeep (1 month under heavy use and/or no upkeep, about 6 months with light use and upkeep). the overall majority want the rate high enough so people are buying new ones to replace old ones but low enough to where crating of droids is not a viable business idea

2. Repetitiveness isn’t the same as "repeat business". Decay forces DE’s to craft, re-craft... and re-craft again the same droids over and over to replace the player’s recently "poofed" version, further adding monotony to the profession in favor of credits. All players and even you, the DE, will lose your droids regularly. We drastically change from offering a useful long-term gaming "companion" serving ourselves and others to selling throw-away mass-produced identical consumables. (again, just like every other crafting profession…you know, the ones we don’t want to play)

I wont mind having to replace my craftbot every 3-4 months, i know a few people in my guild that wont mind having me make replacement droids every 3-4 months. having to make someone a new droid every 3-4 months is not the same as having to replace your armor every week.

3. Cheapens the product. Droids should not be compared to food buffs, armor or weapons, as none of those items can be named or personally custom programmed by the player. And only some armor can be custom colored. Point being: Droids are special, and not seen as expendable consumables to most players- and DE’s should definitely not be the ones to make them such.

no one wants to see droids be expendable, we just dont see why they have to last til time ends. in the real world things break and decay. even in the star wars world droids decay and fall into disrepair. we want to see some of this occur in the game and not have apply to a few (realtively) items (namely vehicles/armor/clothing/weaponry).

4. Drastically reduces the current droid sale prices; so that DE’s will be FORCED into mass-producing crates of identical droids in order to maintain anything close to their current income from custom crafting. Players will not want to pay the same price for a monthly-disposable droid that they have gladly paid for a long-term companion before. DE’s may sell more, but for much, much less - so why ruin the fun for so little gain?

the only way that the prices will fall is if the punk jerks out there (you know the kind, the 13-15 yr old boys that have 0 life outside thier online games and the only thrill they have is pretending to be some uber leet dude that makes you want to reach though your screen and slap them upside the head) crate droids and lower thier prices durasticly just because they can. the only thing preventing them from doing this is that there is 0 repeat business unless joe blow that bought that med droid from you way back when decides that he wants to ditch the med proffession and wants to be a crafter.

Alternatives to General Decay: (in no particular order)

1. Other highly used items, like speeders and mounts, don’t decay and go "poof" for no reason. They require regular maintenance/food to keep functioning, which is a perfectly acceptable method for droids as well; that would make sure players invest in keeping their oft-used companions fully functional, make them select their droids more carefully, and not threaten to gouge our droid prices. And if DE’s provided the "overhaul" service (either via skills or kits), then we’ve added value to the profession, instead of taken it away.

i dont want to spend my time online making schematics to make crates of some repair kit that prob will barely cover the cost of the materals, let alone the factory run itself. i also dont want to spend my time in my shop dealing with people wanting thier droid fixed. i am a crafter, not a greese monkey.

2. Take care of 2 thru10 first. Fixing all the other "top 10" issues Jenden listed WILL increase repeat business, in that once those bugs/issues/functions/improvements are taken care of, players WILL come back to you and buy a new droid with new features. They always do. No, they will not come back to you in a month to buy the exact same droid, but that would not be good "repeat business"- that would be repetitive sales of a cheap consumable, and ruin the enjoyment of this unique profession. Our number one goal should always be increased functionality until we can no longer think of more ways to make droids useful to ourselves and other players.

and once the server population has a droid with the new feature, the sales will bottom out (may not be as low as before, but it will be close). increasing functionality without having a solid method of generating more sales is like taking a pain killer when you break your leg. it helps the short term, but in the long term, you wind up where you were before (if not worse).

3. Beef up Combat Decay. Make sure that Combat droids are feeling the full effect of combat decay, similar to the repair decay that weapons/armor go through. This makes sense (based on the combat model) and insures that players will need to replace their combat-bots eventually. Combat players are already used to this method, so there is no market shock or drastic price reductions needed.

from what you have listed as reasons against decay, then with combat decay on combat droids, then we should see a drop in combat droid price as there well be DE's crating only the combat droids, which in turn MAY cause a decline in ALL droid prices, because joe blow may ask the DE whya is xxx price, yetb is yyy price.

4. Make droid components decay and be "upgrade-able" by DE’s. (DE’s already mass produce components anyways for their own crafting, so this doesn’t negatively affect DE gameplay or prices…) Take the best element of the Shipwright profession and add it to the DE profession. There are all sorts of rules that could be settled upon... modules can only be upgraded with similar module types... only DE’s possess the skills to make the modifications through a droid’s radial menu (no datapad loss there)... droid components would decay with use, but can be repaired or replaced by a DE so the owner can keep their favorite friend …

this turns us into part monkies, which alot of us dont want to see.

Please consider carefully just what "repeat business" means to you, and whether droid decay is really for the good of the profession.

repeat business means simply, that joe blow will try your products then buys your products when he needs more. as it stands, joe blow will buy only once and will only come back if he gets tired of what hes doing now and wants something different. what we want (and its not unreasonable to ask) is that joe blow buys a new product to replace the one that is gone.

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lindalu wrote:

bikes are not needed like weaponry is, yet bikes decay and people dont mind going to a garage to fix them.

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Eceen wrote:

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lindalu wrote:

bikes are not needed like weaponry is, yet bikes decay and people dont mind going to a garage to fix them.

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I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this point. I know I personally curse up a storm when that little window comes up and tells me I have to pay 5k to fix my junk pile. Even with millions in the bank it pisses me off that it costs so much. Not to mention all the damn bikes I've had to replace after riding past a damn force witch on dathomir. Thank the maker I kept master artisan.

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1. For a combatent 5k, is totally nothing. A 5k mission is novice level and takes 5 minutes, for a master, you can make 20k in that same 5 minutes, maybe 30k. It takes about an hour to run up 5k of charges on a bike, that means you have 55 minutes profit time.


2. For a crafter 5k SHOULD be negligible as well. One good droid sale a day should pay for your bike fees for the whole day. The only professions that don't consider 5k chump change can be those without decay.


3. JTL is an EASY way to make money as well, for crafters and combatents alike. Space missions are vastly underated for money making.

There is lots and lots of money to be made to be made in this game. Some people get it from misions, others like us, get it from those who run missions. All decay does is make this more viable.

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AudioOrgana wrote:

Or we could just go as we are, and settle for being one of the least popular professions because we refuse to let go of romantic notions and psudo-roleplay concerns.

I know where I stand on the subject.

AO

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I would just like to reply to this statement here:

I don't care how popular our profession is or isn't... I want the profession to be fun. There are things that I do and don't like about droid decay, but besides the point, I play this game to have fun, not to have an imaginary job to make imaginary credits. And that's one of the problems with this game, that continually pushes me out of it for months at a time before I come back; when I log onto this game, I feel like I'm going to work. I have to pay my "bills" (the maintenance on houses, shops, and harvestors), I have to restock my shop, sit around for hours on end crafting, instead of going on hunts with my guild, or hanging out in the cantina with my friends. The reason why I do go through it, is because I like droids, from the little mouse med droids, to the talking repair droids and the tanking probots. I do feel an "attatchment" to my droids. I felt bad deleting my treadwell droid crafting droid from my datapad after I had made another treadwell droid with upgraded mods. Sure, I could name the droid the same thing, and color it the same, but really, it's not the same, because this is a role playing game, and to certain extents, I like to roleplay, and to me, my droids and my creatures (I am also a creature handler) are part of my character. I am known in my local cantina for my treadwell droid Fusion-III and for my female tusk plains cat Sabre. Those are my character. I don't want to go get another female tusk plains cat, and name it "Sabre", just because my current pet is at 88 total vitality. It's not the same pet. Just as making another droid isn't the same droid.

I guess my arguement here has nothing to do with droid decay, pro or con, but rather a reply to your statement, that I do not want to sacrifice the fun of this profession for the profit of this profession. I've been away from the game for about a month, and because I was gone so long w/o word, my guild leader found someone else to be the droid engineer for the city's mall. Now, I can't complain about that, because I -WAS- gone for so long, the guild leader didn't know if and when I was coming back, so he did what he had to do. But I asked him "Is it okay if I still set up a vendor in my house?" and his reply was "Why don't you be a weaponsmith or something?".

Well, no, I don't want to do that. I want to have fun with my gameplay, not work a job. Sure, sometimes being a droid engineer (any crafter for that matter) feels like a job with everything you have to worry about, but at least being a droid engineer is fun, whether we have repeat sales and the most marketable items or not. Sure, I want a shot at more profits, sure I want better functionality for our product, but the #1 issue is making sure the profession is fun. When I worry about profits, I want to worry about my real life job, and real life bank account. In a game, fun is the #1 issue, and if the main concern is profits over "romantic notions" and "roleplay concerns", then you need to be worried about your real life bank account and profits that actually means something, not a make believe bank account in a game, that those credits you make aren't going to mean anything when you decide you've had enough of SWG and cancel your account and delete your characters.

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Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:

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AudioOrgana wrote:

Or we could just go as we are, and settle for being one of the least popular professions because we refuse to let go of romantic notions and psudo-roleplay concerns.

I know where I stand on the subject.

AO

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I would just like to reply to this statement here:

I don't care how popular our profession is or isn't... I want the profession to be fun. There are things that I do and don't like about droid decay, but besides the point, I play this game to have fun, not to have an imaginary job to make imaginary credits. And that's one of the problems with this game, that continually pushes me out of it for months at a time before I come back; when I log onto this game, I feel like I'm going to work. I have to pay my "bills" (the maintenance on houses, shops, and harvestors), I have to restock my shop, sit around for hours on end crafting, instead of going on hunts with my guild, or hanging out in the cantina with my friends. The reason why I do go through it, is because I like droids, from the little mouse med droids, to the talking repair droids and the tanking probots. I do feel an "attatchment" to my droids. I felt bad deleting my treadwell droid crafting droid from my datapad after I had made another treadwell droid with upgraded mods. Sure, I could name the droid the same thing, and color it the same, but really, it's not the same, because this is a role playing game, and to certain extents, I like to roleplay, and to me, my droids and my creatures (I am also a creature handler) are part of my character. I am known in my local cantina for my treadwell droid Fusion-III and for my female tusk plains cat Sabre. Those are my character. I don't want to go get another female tusk plains cat, and name it "Sabre", just because my current pet is at 88 total vitality. It's not the same pet. Just as making another droid isn't the same droid.

I guess my arguement here has nothing to do with droid decay, pro or con, but rather a reply to your statement, that I do not want to sacrifice the fun of this profession for the profit of this profession. I've been away from the game for about a month, and because I was gone so long w/o word, my guild leader found someone else to be the droid engineer for the city's mall. Now, I can't complain about that, because I -WAS- gone for so long, the guild leader didn't know if and when I was coming back, so he did what he had to do. But I asked him "Is it okay if I still set up a vendor in my house?" and his reply was "Why don't you be a weaponsmith or something?".

Well, no, I don't want to do that. I want to have fun with my gameplay, not work a job. Sure, sometimes being a droid engineer (any crafter for that matter) feels like a job with everything you have to worry about, but at least being a droid engineer is fun, whether we have repeat sales and the most marketable items or not. Sure, I want a shot at more profits, sure I want better functionality for our product, but the #1 issue is making sure the profession is fun. When I worry about profits, I want to worry about my real life job, and real life bank account. In a game, fun is the #1 issue, and if the main concern is profits over "romantic notions" and "roleplay concerns", then you need to be worried about your real life bank account and profits that actually means something, not a make believe bank account in a game, that those credits you make aren't going to mean anything when you decide you've had enough of SWG and cancel your account and delete your characters.

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Nell, I agree with every singlething that you said. Nexttime use bigger font though please Some of us are old.

Your post is EXACTLY why we are trying to reach a compromise. We are trying to make it where both sides are happy. Currently only the "role players" droids are different are happy. Others are not.

This is why we want people a way to keep their "Fusion III's" such as with an anti decay kit. Yet at the same time we want people to be rewarded for all the "work" they do. You are right, crafting is work. For many people the "reward" for your work is credits, some professions get more "reward" then others. This is what we are trying to fix.

There is no reason that both playstyles can't be happy.