CUEmu - Thread Posts

TheOrb

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:52 pm

TheRealTK421 wrote:

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

Probot AR2 is a level 150 pet ? Bull

So...you're saying he lied? Seriously? You think he'd just make up a number?!?

Anyone have an example of a level 150 pet?

They do to me.

I'm seeing now that the CL10+ droids 'thing' is a tough nut to crack. Seriously. We are struggling with it and they are too. I got a pretty good "breakdown" done on me by one of the Devs.

They are more considerate of this issue than some of you probably think. We need to cut them a bit of slack (actually, a lot) if we are to move forward in the best possible way.

The problem here TK is that the droid engineer prof has been fubar for quite some time. We have also been told we would be fixed a few times now...and then left down.

I know some of you want to see me 'throw down' on them more...but I already know that we've tried that in the past. And it didn't work. I'm just getting my legs under me on all this, so let's give it a bit o' time.

Again TK, don't take offense, but I have been waiting for a fix for a very long time. I'm not sure how much longer I can hold out here. At first I was against the droid handler/commander, but now I'm starting to think twice (because I'm starting to get desperate).

I know its frustrating, Shian. No one knows better than I. I can only request that you work with me a bit and trust that I'd do (and am doing, behind the scenes) what appears to be best for the DEs.

What IS best for the DEs, in your opinion?

Message Edited by TheOrb on 03-18-2004 10:53 PM

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Naufragus

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:44 pm

#15

i think he meant level 15..its a typo...

but still a level 15 pet is pretty damn weak...CHs really dont get any decent pets until like lvl 18-22

CaixCatab

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:48 pm

#16

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

YES I am saying he lied YES ok

The best thing he could do to recover any respect is get his arse in here and explain why he believes this nonsense.

I think your misinterprating. He said: "In order to maintain the proper combat balance of the game, it was necessary to reduce the probot armor to appropriate levels. The current probot armor was akin to what a level 150 creature would have."

When you've cooled of a bit, and read it a few times, don't you think what he said actually sounds a lot more like "the old armourof a probot was the same as the kind of armour you would've found on a lvl 150 pet." or "Level 150 critters would be expected to have an armour like that".

He does not mention the probot's damage, speed or HAM. He does not (the way I read it) talk about the probot as an entitity, at all. He is not saying that pre-patch probots are level 150 pets. He's refering to the armour and nothing but the armour.

He is saying the had the kind of armour that usually belong on level 150 pets.

So yeah, probot AR2 is bull. Because what he meant (the way I read that. But it's 6am and english isn't my first language, so maybe I'm making things up) was that probot armour was of the strenght usually found on a lvl 150 pet.

(it could also, as Naufragus said, be a typo. But I liked my complicated explanation a lot more than his simple, easy-to-use one. So there :robottongue

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

Somewhere they have a major bug in the pet evaluation process, cos I have tried allsorts with my shiny new Probot, and I can tell you it is NOT CL10 or even close.

Just wondering, but how many of those tests were pulled on creatures with a to-be-nerfed mark on 'em?

(I hate the quote tags of this software. They're hard to use, they're ugly, and they give me the creeps.

Where's my BBcode? I could do that in my sleep....)

Hmm. well I can see from SOE's point of view this is good, but from the community's point of view nothing can be worse than knowing that 'something' is happening but our correspondant cannot say.

Not knowing anything at all would be a lot worse, IMHO.

TK, I have the greatest espect for you, and have had since I came to these boards, so its not you I have a problem with. This whole 'secret discussion thing' reminds me of Eastern Europe before the fall of the Berlin Wall. I know that you know what you are talking about on DE matters, but, without being disrespectful, you do not have all the answers, and neither does your not inconsiderable mind have infinite power.(nor do I think that YOU think so either)

So secret discussions never happened in a free-thinking government of the west? Comparing a company founded and run by capitalistic principles to a dictatorship that oppressed,spied onand killed people who used a socislistic forefront, gets weird. And I mean the kind of back-away-slowly-and-she-won't-bite weird. Stay away from politics when we're talking about the future of an imaginary-profession. Please?

So, just maybe, the structure or rules are wrong. If you cannot say things to us, we cannot debate them, therefore you cannot feed back on it. I'm sorry but it all feels a bit socialist to me. The closed committee syndrome if you will.

Your making the assumption that we are, so to speak, "fit to debatte" them. As much as I respect humanity as whole, past experience renders me unable to believe that posting each and every single tread of idea they get for us to discuss will notlead to chaos, problems and generally cost a lot of time and effort that's completely unnecesary. We, as DE's, cannot and does not need to, look at the balance of other professions. If we got droideka's with sweet firepower we'd be happy as pigs in mud, and how many would object? Even knowing that we'll be messing with the combat balance in bad ways.

We're way to biased to be able to consider enough of the balance issues that needs considering.

That, and the difference between us and the people on the wrong side of the Berlin wall, is that if we try and go over it and say "I quit", we don't get shot (... I can't belive I said that -_-)

So, do I trust you, well yes, but that doesn't mean the system is working, nor does it mean the system is a good one.

All I know is that if you are talking to them, and we are where we are, then likely the fault lies with them.

Sure. But two wrongs does not make a right. They may need to change (though personally, I don't doubt the dev's abilities to shoot down our proposals and be right about it. TK may not have infitive mind powers and neither may the dev team. But quite frankly, of the three of use (the third being DE's as group), there's only one who spent the past years working on this game), but letting the DE mob participate isn't a good change...

Might be time that Berlin Wall came down.

Well... I can't answer to that.

...

... yours was spiffier. Darn it.

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Mightion

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:53 pm

#17

What I can't understand how level 6 armor modules, which require composite segments, can't impart an armor rating. Those composite segments impart an armor rating when they're worn as a suit by one of us meatbags!

Mightion Defensor
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Ashlish

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:55 pm

#18

I for one commend Runesabre, TH and the rest of the dev team on a masterful display of magic.

They took a plan to flesh out the Droid Engineering profession, put it into a hat, waived their wands and pulled out a scripted invasion of NPC droids flooding into a town near you.

Net result. Some noob working on Unarmed 2 can now heal his combat R3. Probot nerfed, and probably BE pets nerfed too. Beta bugs remain. Still no purpose for droids in this game beyond what they can currently do. Droids will never occupy a core aspect of SWG, unless a thousand monkeys working at a thousand workstations can figure out how to balance droid combat. And even then it will just be a slightly deformed clone of CH. Armosmiths, Weaponsmiths, Architects, Doctors, and Chefs seem to fit. Good for them. Hopefuly the pity purchases keep coming. Oh, by the way, your list of rare resources for components has doubled. And those droids need even more subcombines. Have a nice day.

Patch 8 is now on deck. They have added exactly ZERO modules to the original posted list of four. Since it's March Madness, I'm in a betting mood. Anyone want to wager the total number of new modules remains at four? I'll give odds.

Good luck to all of you. I could find no better statement to make than to hit CANCEL ACCOUNT.

---------------------------------
Communication Breakdown,
It's always the same

Lonkley

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:08 am

#19

The chat was a huge disappointment in that they masterfully utilitize doublespeak to say that new droids are coming, without actually telling people in clear terms that they are only targets.

This is just going to reenforce peoples expectations for patch 8 to have new combat droids.

One would think with all the flack they are taking from patch 7, they would set the record straight, and say in clear terms that players will not be getting new droids in the near future. But instead they imply they are, when its purely npcs.

anyway, so TK, do you think you'll get a green light to tell us their "concerns"?

----------------
There is a special place in hell for necro posters

Shian_Tavkin

Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:02 am

#20

CaixCatab wrote:

A whole lot of apologist for SOE stuff

I dont care if Runesabre was referring to armour only, and I dont care that he may have omitted any thoughts or reference to damage dealing or speed or..for that matter, what the misconceptions he might have been under were.

What I do care about is the end result for a player, because that directly equates to saleability.

The Probot never could do much, except be a minor tank - and now it can't even do that right, as he would know if he had ever played the game with one. None of my testing has been against BE pets (because I know that is no solid foundation for testing), it has been against minor NPC groups, including enemy faction NPC groups, creatures in the wild (lair missions) and so on. The fact is it is less able than it once was, even with healing (supposing you can keep it in range to be healed).

From that evidence I conclude it is less saleable now (apart from novelty value) than once it was. Add to that that it was a minority choice in the pre Pub7 days and the nett result is that it has been nerfed, however you want to measure it. Saleability is key in this.

Moving on to your view regarding our 'fitness to debate' you use the not so clever tactic of putting words into my mouth. I did not suggest they come to us with 'each and every thread of idea they have'. What I do however think they should do is utilize the 'in Concept' approach in order to get feedback before the event of coding. Producing a body of work to Test Center is far too late a time to get feedback. My only other comment is that there are a large number of intelligent human beings on this forum, and profitable debate does indeed occur, to think otherwise, or that we are in some way not good enough or 'unfit', is patronizing.

Your only valid point is that I should stay away from political comparisons, and your mistake is in propogating your argument with further political examples..so hello Pot, this is Kettle.

So you say that because the Devs have been working on the game for years they know best eh? The DE 'Mob' as you call us should not participate eh? Well if you like to believe that, thats your own affair, in which case what are you doing on the forums in the first place? Have they never been wrong? There is only one group who understand the playability of this game, and that is the players. Devs may know what they want to achieve, but history proves that as with all development the design does not necessarily translate into actuality of gameplay.

Finally, it is gameplay that counts. In that respect (at the very least) comparing any aspect of a probot to CL150, or even (if it was a typo) CL15 is quite fatuous. There was a reason people preferred creature pets, and we sold fewer probots, the CL10 pet was better in gameplay terms - and I frankly do not care what their arcane formula tells them, in this case playersare always better judges ofwhat 'level' a 'pet' is, and they spend their credits accordingly.This will not change in the probot's favour as a result of Pub7, and as such does nothing good for DE.

And after all that, I want the armour back because it distinguished a Probot from a organic creature. As we are now our probot is nothing more than an expensive, weakcreature made of metal, and that is not good for DE.

Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-19-2004 02:07 AM

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

SWG-Runesabre

Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:32 am

#21

I think your misinterprating. He said: "In order to maintain the proper combat balance of the game, it was necessary to reduce the probot armor to appropriate levels. The current probot armor was akin to what a level 150 creature would have."

When you've cooled of a bit, and read it a few times, don't you think what he said actually sounds a lot more like "the old armourof a probot was the same as the kind of armour you would've found on a lvl 150 pet." or "Level 150 critters would be expected to have an armour like that".

He does not mention the probot's damage, speed or HAM. He does not (the way I read it) talk about the probot as an entitity, at all. He is not saying that pre-patch probots are level 150 pets. He's refering to the armour and nothing but the armour.

He is saying the had the kind of armour that usually belong on level 150 pets.

This is the correct interpretation of what I was saying in the chat.

Shian_Tavkin

Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:42 am

#22

SWG-Runesabre wrote:

I think your misinterprating. He said: "In order to maintain the proper combat balance of the game, it was necessary to reduce the probot armor to appropriate levels. The current probot armor was akin to what a level 150 creature would have."

When you've cooled of a bit, and read it a few times, don't you think what he said actually sounds a lot more like "the old armourof a probot was the same as the kind of armour you would've found on a lvl 150 pet." or "Level 150 critters would be expected to have an armour like that".

He does not mention the probot's damage, speed or HAM. He does not (the way I read it) talk about the probot as an entitity, at all. He is not saying that pre-patch probots are level 150 pets. He's refering to the armour and nothing but the armour.

He is saying the had the kind of armour that usually belong on level 150 pets.

This is the correct interpretation of what I was saying in the chat.

Right - so now we know that, how does this equal balance..it still doesn't, and glad though I am to see you here Runesabre, your response above does nothing at all to enlighten anyone as to why we had a massive armour reduction without a correspondingly massive HAM increase. You surely didn't think a Probot was overpowered before Pub 7, surely not. Have you actually played using one?

Hope is most definitely fading for me at least..some good news would be nice.

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

nolan007

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:10 am

#23

I get the impresssion that most of the development team has moved on to the space expansion and that is what we're seeing these kinds of publishes.

(At least it appears that way.)

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(Revised 07.07.05)
( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

Nuke490

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:11 am

#24

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

You surely didn't think a Probot was overpowered before Pub 7, surely not. Have you actually played using one?

I have to agree with this. The problem many folks have with these droids is that they are 'One Hit Wonders'! Anything other than n00b spawns near starter cities hit them, and BAM! Like Emeril, but not as much fun...

Why should I even bother having a Pet droid out for combat when I KNOW that it will die so fast I probably will not even be able to heal it? If it can't tank, then it serves no purpose, since it FOR SURE can't deal any decent damage! (Even the combat ones!)

At least a CL10 pet can absorb a few hits before going down...Please, Devs, rethink the method of allowing non-CH (or future DH) classes being able to use even moderatelt useful combat droids/pets. As it is...I don't bother with one, except to group with it to get the XP bonus. (Take a look at the Imp. Outpost on Dant, and see how many pets have been given the standard commands 'Group' and 'Stay'.!)

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Jebwa

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:22 am

#25

TheRealTK421wrote:

Probot AR2 is a level 150 pet ? Bull

So...you're saying he lied? Seriously? You think he'd just make up a number?!?

Droid invasion is all about live events and dungeons? Bull

I'm starting to think that "Invasion" was just a horribly selected marketing name. Just like the Imperial "Crackdown" (in which, for a period of weeks, I was never once scanned, much less hassled in any way).

By 'invasion', it's pretty clear that was meant be a droid-centric themed publish (the first of 2). It will get better...

Do we have to swallow this total lying about them 'floating lots of new ideas by us' - Man they have floated absolutely nothing, nothing at all..in fact I dont think they know how to 'float an idea', they just leave it up to us to have ideas that they shoot down as fast as they come up.

I seem to remember a post where they had talked about the ideas they had had and they had decided that a new profession seemed to be the "best" overall answer to CL10+ droids. I guess that's what Blair must have meant...

Sodan's plan is now the ONLY floating idea..and they say nothing about it.

They do to me.

I'm seeing now that the CL10+ droids 'thing' is a tough nut to crack. Seriously. We are struggling with it and they are too. I got a pretty good "breakdown" done on me by one of the Devs.

They are more considerate of this issue than some of you probably think. We need to cut them a bit of slack (actually, a lot) if we are to move forward in the best possible way.

I know some of you want to see me 'throw down' on them more...but I already know that we've tried that in the past. And it didn't work. I'm just getting my legs under me on all this, so let's give it a bit o' time.

Can you tell I am getting mad over this? - - - - - - - Pass that damn valium, lets all have some.

You? Upset? NEVER!

I know its frustrating, Shian. No one knows better than I. I can only request that you work with me a bit and trust that I'd do (and am doing, behind the scenes) what appears to be best for the DEs.

Sort them out TK..just sort them out.

I'm a' trying...but they are pretty sharp.

(...and I thought I could 'break-it-down'? I think I was wrong. )

/bow

Respectfully,

I'm not a DE but from those responses from the DE Correspondent, I am completely glad I'm not a DE. This guy gets down on 2 knees to kiss the DEVS butt doesn't he and he bows respectfully to the player community after doing it. No wonder there is so much complaint among the DE community. Look at the people you have representing you. They aren't representing you.

What I see here is the DE community coming in and arguing about what the Devs are doing and the Correspondent(the person that is suppose to be the voice of the DE community) comes in and totally blows off these complaints and jumps on the Devs side. Well, good luck to you DEs out there cause you are really going to need it.

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PadreBook

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:24 am

#26

KeldarinSo I hope everyone has been enjoying the new Combat Droids in the lastest Publish

=============================

New droids?!?

An out and out lie! There are no new droids in this publish.

Padre

Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Pertinent stuff from the chat