Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Vendor Search: Will you turn it on for your vendors?

Kniol
Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:48 am
#14






TheRealTK421 wrote:

Just curious how many people see themselves enabling this...


I'm still unsure if I want to do this or not. Perhaps I'll give it a go for a few weeks, just to see what happens.


Note: My personal feeling on this feature is that it's going to have a negative impact on the economy and may well drive a lot of great crafters/merchants from their profession (or the game altogether).



/bow

Respectfully,





Not having read enough about it, obviously, I have a couple noob questions:


One person answered that they disabled "remote" buying... so IOW, all Combat Player Rambo can do is "locate" where items are, and not be able to buy them from his favorite bazaar terminal?


I agree that we'll have to be listed "in the phone book" in order to continue to make sales, and find it ridiculous that this will mean giving up Advertising Tree (and therefore Master Merchant, and the extra vendors???).


I think I'll wait a couple weeks before "giving it a go", and see how fast you drop it, Dough-boy. lol




Kniol Kiodo
Master Shipwright
Master Droid Engineer
Master Artisan (PRE-Vehicle Patch)
Vendors at (4988, -3844), just 1000m N of Moenia, Naboo
Ahazi Galaxy
"Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Do what you said."
psikobunny
Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:01 am
#15

One talk I was having with someone had an interesting turn in it.


He began to harp on merchants, calling them whiners for "not wanting us" to have this. I told him until he devoted a chunk of his skill points to being a Master Shopper, I was far more willing to listen to the Merchant's POV about how it would effect their game. That quieted him down some.



Gilack Mehoipou [Bloodfin]


Quintuple Master- Marksman/Squad Leader/Rifleman/Vortex Pilot/Politician


Made it before all hell broke loose.



TheRealTK421
Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:42 am
#16






psikobunny wrote:


One talk I was having with someone had an interesting turn in it.


He began to harp on merchants, calling them whiners for "not wanting us" to have this. I told him until he devoted a chunk of his skill points to being a Master Shopper, I was far more willing to listen to the Merchant's POV about how it would effect their game. That quieted him down some.





See...it's this kind of player that needs to seek out a player that he/she can 'contract' to make the items they want.

That solves all of this.


I guess it's too much to ask for some players to actually...*gasp*...interact with a crafter/merchant to track down something they need for them.

/shrug



/bow

Respectfully,





TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


GraySeven
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:08 am
#17






TheRealTK421 wrote:





psikobunny wrote:


One talk I was having with someone had an interesting turn in it.


He began to harp on merchants, calling them whiners for "not wanting us" to have this. I told him until he devoted a chunk of his skill points to being a Master Shopper, I was far more willing to listen to the Merchant's POV about how it would effect their game. That quieted him down some.





See...it's this kind of player that needs to seek out a player that he/she can 'contract' to make the items they want.

That solves all of this.


I guess it's too much to ask for some players to actually...*gasp*...interact with a crafter/merchant to track down something they need for them.

/shrug



/bow

Respectfully,







Nice attitude, psikobunny. Alienation of the non-crafters will surely get your point across.


And TK, tell me, just how do I go about tracking down a specific crafter and interacting? I got behind this change even as a Merchant/DE since the first couple of months after launch to now, simply because I am tired of wasting my play time going from planet to planet, vendor to vendor, and being unable to find what I need.


I got tired of sending tells to the crafter whose name came up on search only to get an AFK message with a vendor waypoint, or a "I don't do custom orders" or just being completely ignored. Unanswered emails also get old.


Even if I have to sift through page after page looking for things, at least I won't have to waste 5 minutes travelling out to a vendor listed on the planetary map as selling resources only to find one stack of 1000 units of some garbage resource on the vendor.


The biggest problem I see with Merchants right now is that, while you claim no one is looking at things from your point of view, you aren't looking at things from theirs either. As both a buyer and a seller, I am glad of this change. As a buyer, I can now find what I'm looking for without wasted time or cost, and as a seller my goods will get out to a broader market.


If someone undercuts, I will do my best to buy them out and resell their goods. If I can't do that, I will stop competing with them on those goods until they either run out or raise their prices. I don't have to make BH droids and refuse to sell them for less than 25k a crate when I do, since the number of bounties one crate is good for brings the cost to the BH down to around 500 cr per...


So, will you listen to THIS merchants POV? Probably not, because I'm not jumping on the "sky is falling" bandwagon for this one.




Vahl Arturin - Elder Ranger, Elder Bounty Hunter, Elder Rifleman
&
Vaylis Arturin - Elder Armorsmith
Starsider
"The burning is love"

JavelinCatcher
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:11 am
#18






TheRealTK421 wrote:

See...it's this kind of player that needs to seek out a player that he/she can 'contract' to make the items they want.

That solves all of this.


I guess it's too much to ask for some players to actually...*gasp*...interact with a crafter/merchant to track down something they need for them.






When the rate of Krayts spawns were increased, my friends and I came into possession with more tissue than we knew what to do with. After categorizing them by serials and stats, I set off to find a weaponsmith. It took me a week, but I found a small time WS that made good stuff and was willing to deal with a large order of weapons to enhance which was going to be split between my friends and I. (Note: this wasn't on TC, but StarStrider) I really didn't think it was all that hard.



----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Rifleman/Master Smugger----StarStrider
----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Droid Engineer----TestCenter
----Accoubacca----TKA/Commando---TestCenter

----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Droid Engineer----Gorath

CUAlpha: Team Droid Engineer
Jenden
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:55 am
#19

Gray, I think that a better advertising/search system is definately needed (and I think a lot of merchants agree with that), its the fact that this is implemented in such a way as to make price the only comparator between products. Being able to browse around to see what vendors have and save yourself some time is a good thing. Being able to instantly sort all items you're looking at by price so you can just go grab the cheapest one is a bad thing for the economy in my opinion. I'm not so worried about the changes right now anymore just because of the sheer volume of stuff that will be listed (easily hundreds of pages of items) and the fact that it will take longer for people to go through all the items (and keep track of where they are) than it will to look for the vendors on foot like people do now.



Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

Straker_Atrella
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:55 am
#20

You can't seriously think that you will be able to buy out the undercutters can you? If you sell BH droids for 25k a crate, after this change, you just wont sell anymore.


In real life people need to wory about making as much money as they can, they have a future to worry about, College funds, retirement, health plans, emergencies in the future. They need to make as much money as they can, this keeps price wars on a realistic level. There is no such thing in this game. There are no emergencies, there is no future to worry about, because you can stop playing at any time. There are crafters out there that ALL they want to do is cover their expenses. That's it. If they can cover the maint on their houses, factories, and Harvestors, then make a 0.5 cpu profit on top of that, they are making money and happy. Don't believe me? You can find examples of this from people posting on this very board.


So you buy their stock up and resell it right? Eventually they will go out of business right? Wrong. Let's say you spend 400k buying 200 crates of BH droids at 2k each. You price them at 25k. People saw them at 2k though, and put off buying from you for 2k until they can get cheaper. However, you do sell 8 crates, making your money back. You are now even. Yet 2 days later, another 200 crates show up on the bazaar. Yet you still have 192 crates from before to sell yet. So you buy these as well. 2 days later, more show up, what now? You still have 384 crates, and havn't made any profit at all. The only person making a profit is the guy selling them at 2k each. In fact you encourage him buy buying is product.


Then another person starts selling full med droids for 5k......


As long as people cover their expenses, they can do this for FOREVER. They will never run out.


You want to know how you go about tracking down a crafter or interacting? You TALK to people. This is a MMRPG, which means mass multiplayer. If right now, I lost all the crafters I normally use, within an hour, just by asking my friends, I could have brand new ones. It's not that hard, yet it takes effort. Effort seems to be something that people are lacking lately.


You are also acting like we ( I use that loosely) are against this change in general, were not. We WANT people to be able to find stuff, we just think that prices and stats listed will kill the economy. The list should say who has your item, then you go to those vendors and price shop. If you can't go to 5 vendors that you KNOW have your item, then you are lazy and don't deserve to be catered too.


The only people who will sell MORE after this change are those who didn't advertise or build a good reputation before the change. This changes takes all your hard work and puts you right next to somebody who started crafting yesterday. Being a good crafter is more then just product, it is customer relations.


SWG had something nothing else did. You could run a business. That part of the game begins a slow death with this change.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.
RasalTheWise
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:03 pm
#21


GraySeven wrote:


TheRealTK421 wrote:


psikobunny wrote:

One talk I was having with someone had an interesting turn in it.
He began to harp on merchants, calling them whiners for "not wanting us" to have this. I told him until he devoted a chunk of his skill points to being a Master Shopper, I was far more willing to listen to the Merchant's POV about how it would effect their game. That quieted him down some.


See...it's this kind of player that needs to seek out a player that he/she can 'contract' to make the items they want.

That solves all of this.

I guess it's too much to ask for some players to actually...*gasp*...interact with a crafter/merchant to track down something they need for them.

/shrug



/bow

Respectfully,



Nice attitude, psikobunny. Alienation of the non-crafters will surely get your point across.

And TK, tell me, just how do I go about tracking down a specific crafter and interacting? I got behind this change even as a Merchant/DE since the first couple of months after launch to now, simply because I am tired of wasting my play time going from planet to planet, vendor to vendor, and being unable to find what I need.

I got tired of sending tells to the crafter whose name came up on search only to get an AFK message with a vendor waypoint, or a "I don't do custom orders" or just being completely ignored. Unanswered emails also get old.

Even if I have to sift through page after page looking for things, at least I won't have to waste 5 minutes travelling out to a vendor listed on the planetary map as selling resources only to find one stack of 1000 units of some garbage resource on the vendor.

The biggest problem I see with Merchants right now is that, while you claim no one is looking at things from your point of view, you aren't looking at things from theirs either. As both a buyer and a seller, I am glad of this change. As a buyer, I can now find what I'm looking for without wasted time or cost, and as a seller my goods will get out to a broader market.

If someone undercuts, I will do my best to buy them out and resell their goods. If I can't do that, I will stop competing with them on those goods until they either run out or raise their prices. I don't have to make BH droids and refuse to sell them for less than 25k a crate when I do, since the number of bounties one crate is good for brings the cost to the BH down to around 500 cr per...

So, will you listen to THIS merchants POV? Probably not, because I'm not jumping on the "sky is falling" bandwagon for this one.




I've said before many, many times. This POV can be easily rectified if they just remove the prices. Then you know exactly where the good are, it just makes you go to the actual location. If you don't like the price or want to shop around, you have a plentiful supply of locations to check. This way protects the crafters and shows EXACTLY where the goods are for the buyers. Tada. End of story. Next case.




Rasal's Ye Ol' Droid Shoppe

00000000000
00
0000000000
0
000000000000
00
000_0000000 Purveyor of fine and sophisticated droids and other Artisan needs.
0000/0\000000 Come see my shop in beautiful South Coronet!
000000000000 Shop Location: -140, -5500
00000000000
000000000

EnigmaBSc
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:09 pm
#22

OK, so we've had the "The Sky Is Not Falling" point of view. Now here's the "The Sky Could Very Well Fall" point of view from the guy who could get all the business.

Let me preface this post by saying that I'm on very good terms with many of the Droid Engineers on my server, I am not an idiot, nor am I a charity, but if it helps you to think of me that way then please go right ahead. I have outlined my reasons for my prices before and don't feel the need to do so again. I have debated them many times and been presented with just about every conceivable counter-argument you can come up with. I stick with my prices and I have good reason for doing so. I am not hurting anybody with them (at least not while we don't have a vendor search which shows prices). Furthermore, Droid Engineering seems to be in a very healthy state on my server at the moment. There's Atan who can beat me on quality by a few points, Baebar can too on a couple of items. Opekli has the widest net, with vendors on about five different planets. Kesa is one of the cheapest, apart from me. Then there's Ralarin, CTC, and a couple of other smaller droid outfits, plus Nebar who's just starting to get into the profession.

So you think a vendor search with prices is a good thing? You think that it will increase exposure for your business and while prices may drop a little the "undercutters" will wear themselves out in short order and you can always buy them out and resell.

Think again.

In the last two months I've sold over 200 crates of Arakyd Probe Droids at 1550 credits per crate. Yes, that not a typo. One thousand five hundred and fifty credits per crate. I have another forty crates on my vendor.

I have 108 rated creature harvest droids on my vendors at four thousand two hundred and seventy credits per droid. I have combat R3 droids with a combat rating of 600 and 99% experimented HAMs for three thousand nine hundred and ten credits per droid. I have combat probots with combat rating of 529 and 99% experimented HAMs for two thousand seven hundred and fifty credits per droid. I have droids with item storage, with crafting stations, with medical modules, with auto-repair. You name it, I have it. I have over 500 droids on my vendors and that number goes up every day.

Think I'm a temporary blip and will wear myself out? Hasn't happened in the last six months. What makes you think it'll happen in the next six?

Think you can buy me out? Go ahead and try it. I've dealt with resellers before. And it doesn't matter, because I'll restock. Can you buy up 20 droids every day as soon as I put them up for sale? And that's a low output because I'm using droids to get FS crafting xp. If I ran more of the components in a factory my daily output could go up to about 50 droids.

Do you want to compete with that?

Do you think I'm the only Droid Engineer in the game who works like this?

Do you think there isn't one on your server?

Want to find out?

I care about the state of Droid Engineering on my server. I have no desire to wipe out the businesses of other Droid Engineers. But I can guarantee that there will be somebody somewhere who doesn't care.

Global vendor search with sortable comparable price is a bad idea™.

EnigmaBSc
RasalTheWise
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:14 pm
#23


EnigmaBSc wrote:
OK, so we've had the "The Sky Is Not Falling" point of view. Now here's the "The Sky Could Very Well Fall" point of view from the guy who could get all the business.

Let me preface this post by saying that I'm on very good terms with many of the Droid Engineers on my server, I am not an idiot, nor am I a charity, but if it helps you to think of me that way then please go right ahead. I have outlined my reasons for my prices before and don't feel the need to do so again. I have debated them many times and been presented with just about every conceivable counter-argument you can come up with. I stick with my prices and I have good reason for doing so. I am not hurting anybody with them (at least not while we don't have a vendor search which shows prices). Furthermore, Droid Engineering seems to be in a very healthy state on my server at the moment. There's Atan who can beat me on quality by a few points, Baebar can too on a couple of items. Opekli has the widest net, with vendors on about five different planets. Kesa is one of the cheapest, apart from me. Then there's Ralarin, CTC, and a couple of other smaller droid outfits, plus Nebar who's just starting to get into the profession.

So you think a vendor search with prices is a good thing? You think that it will increase exposure for your business and while prices may drop a little the "undercutters" will wear themselves out in short order and you can always buy them out and resell.

Think again.

In the last two months I've sold over 200 crates of Arakyd Probe Droids at 1550 credits per crate. Yes, that not a typo. One thousand five hundred and fifty credits per crate. I have another forty crates on my vendor.

I have 108 rated creature harvest droids on my vendors at four thousand two hundred and seventy credits per droid. I have combat R3 droids with a combat rating of 600 and 99% experimented HAMs for three thousand nine hundred and ten credits per droid. I have combat probots with combat rating of 529 and 99% experimented HAMs for two thousand seven hundred and fifty credits per droid. I have droids with item storage, with crafting stations, with medical modules, with auto-repair. You name it, I have it. I have over 500 droids on my vendors and that number goes up every day.

Think I'm a temporary blip and will wear myself out? Hasn't happened in the last six months. What makes you think it'll happen in the next six?

Think you can buy me out? Go ahead and try it. I've dealt with resellers before. And it doesn't matter, because I'll restock. Can you buy up 20 droids every day as soon as I put them up for sale? And that's a low output because I'm using droids to get FS crafting xp. If I ran more of the components in a factory my daily output could go up to about 50 droids.

Do you want to compete with that?

Do you think I'm the only Droid Engineer in the game who works like this?

Do you think there isn't one on your server?

Want to find out?

I care about the state of Droid Engineering on my server. I have no desire to wipe out the businesses of other Droid Engineers. But I can guarantee that there will be somebody somewhere who doesn't care.

Global vendor search with sortable comparable price is a bad idea™.

EnigmaBSc


I just wanted to take this moment to say: Thank you for putting the Fear of God into us all.




Rasal's Ye Ol' Droid Shoppe

00000000000
00
0000000000
0
000000000000
00
000_0000000 Purveyor of fine and sophisticated droids and other Artisan needs.
0000/0\000000 Come see my shop in beautiful South Coronet!
000000000000 Shop Location: -140, -5500
00000000000
000000000

Straker_Atrella
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:18 pm
#24

Yep Enigma just posted as a perfect example. Now instead of just "some" people knowing about his cheap droids, overnight, pretty much everybody will. Word of mouth will spread through those who don't even use the bazaar system. There is only a finite amount of droids to be bought, now the cheap people will sell those.


Enigma, I don't mean the "charity" comments as an insult, but that is the closest thing that refers to your business. You are not trying to make a profit, you are charging far less then your product is worth, you are charging far less then people are willing to pay. A charity organization is a non-profit organization as well, all they care about is covering their overhead.


I still will never understand your pricing scheme.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.
TheRealTK421
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:22 pm
#25






GraySeven wrote:





TheRealTK421 wrote:

See...it's this kind of player that needs to seek out a player that he/she can 'contract' to make the items they want.

That solves all of this.

I guess it's too much to ask for some players to actually...*gasp*...interact with a crafter/merchant to track down something they need for them.

/shrug



/bow

Respectfully,







Nice attitude, psikobunny. Alienation of the non-crafters will surely get your point across.


Well, I am not sure the non-crafters realize how they are about to hurt themselves by pushing for this so hard. /shrug


And TK, tell me, just how do I go about tracking down a specific crafter and interacting? I got behind this change even as a Merchant/DE since the first couple of months after launch to now, simply because I am tired of wasting my play time going from planet to planet, vendor to vendor, and being unable to find what I need.


When searching in this fashion doesn't work, you have to go to the options below. If you can't find what you need on a vendor, you pretty much have to find someone to make it for you.

If you know of another choice, let me know.


I got tired of sending tells to the crafter whose name came up on search only to get an AFK message with a vendor waypoint, or a "I don't do custom orders" or just being completely ignored. Unanswered emails also get old.


This is about all you can do, if you can't find what you're after on any vendors. /shrug


Even if I have to sift through page after page looking for things, at least I won't have to waste 5 minutes travelling out to a vendor listed on the planetary map as selling resources only to find one stack of 1000 units of some garbage resource on the vendor.


No...you might just have to spend 20 min. sifting through page after page to find what you want.

Resources, in this regard, are going to be different than actual crafted items.


The biggest problem I see with Merchants right now is that, while you claim no one is looking at things from your point of view, you aren't looking at things from theirs either.


You don't think Merchants/Crafters have to buy stuff too?


As both a buyer and a seller, I am glad of this change. As a buyer, I can now find what I'm looking for without wasted time or cost, and as a seller my goods will get out to a broader market.


I guess we'll see. I can foresee situations where you'll waste just as much time (if not more) using the new search option.


If someone undercuts, I will do my best to buy them out and resell their goods.


Is that really how you wantto spend your play-time though? I know having to do that all the time will makeme just.............../cancel.


If I can't do that, I will stop competing with them on those goods until they either run out or raise their prices. I don't have to make BH droids and refuse to sell them for less than 25k a crate when I do, since the number of bounties one crate is good for brings the cost to the BH down to around 500 cr per...


So, will you listen to THIS merchants POV? Probably not, because I'm not jumping on the "sky is falling" bandwagon for this one.


Everyone's got their own opinion. I have to go by what I see/hear from most crafters/merchants.





/bow

Respectfully,





TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


GraySeven
Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:23 pm
#26


If you are selling for 1550 cr per crate what I sell for 25k per crate, then one of two things is happening:


  1. You are making no profit from those crates, and are making it up in another way. Whether you are selling something else or running missions, your operating income does not come from DE... I also fail to see how you are on good terms with other DE's for this. I price my droids based on not only my time and expenses, but the earning potential of BH's. At my prices, BH's must spend 1000cr a mark on droids. That you charge that low a price only hurts you.

  2. I'm charging too much. I have too high a value on my time and ability. I feel the effort of 3 factory runs for components to run 999 BH droids is much, much more than you do. I feel the hours spent searching out and harvesting resources, the factory time, the storage spaces I need for finished components....I must be out of my mind.

And like I said, if I can't buy you out. I'll stop competing. You would become the only supplier of BH droids. All BH's would come to you for their droids. You're work load will greatly increase. How long will it remain fun for you I wonder? I've never earned my "living" as a DE...its always been my other crafting profession that has allowed me to support my DE habit...


You can't possibly care for other DE's as you say you do while charging a price so low that it IS charity...

Message Edited by GraySeven on 03-20-2005 01:25 PM



Vahl Arturin - Elder Ranger, Elder Bounty Hunter, Elder Rifleman
&
Vaylis Arturin - Elder Armorsmith
Starsider
"The burning is love"

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