Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Here they are, TC changes so far (all schematics available now!)
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
I think you're missing their point.
SOE is getting free, extensive, thourough, and extremely well done testing data from letting players do it. All the changes they've made could be easily documented and posted, but that would require work on their part. The person didn't mean that just WE have this problem, but that SOE is doing this to all professions.
What Drashk and the others are doing is work. Hard, tedious, work. And SOE isn't paying a dime for it, they're actually getting paid! Basically it's like if you brought a friend in to workfor you, charged them adollar an hour, and told them to enjoy doing whatever you do for a job. They pay you to do your work for them. I think the people doing this deserve something back from SOE, besides the pain, frustration, and annoyance of poor, late, and uneducated replies from the Dev's with information that isn't current or important.
My guess? They're working on the space expansion because their bosses see a huge revenue coming in when that ships. Remember that the Dev's are required to do what they do by people who don't even realize that we have minds, to them we're just numbers that don't make decisions themselves.
I guess it depends on you're point of view. I'd much rather do some of this myself (I'm a freak that enjoys testing and debugging software) and leave the devs more time to actually work on the game than have them waste their time on detailed point by point update notes.
Jenden wrote:
SkyeDarkangel wrote:I think you're missing their point.SOE is getting free, extensive, thourough, and extremely well done testing data from letting players do it. All the changes they've made could be easily documented and posted, but that would require work on their part. The person didn't mean that just WE have this problem, but that SOE is doing this to all professions.What Drashk and the others are doing is work. Hard, tedious, work. And SOE isn't paying a dime for it, they're actually getting paid! Basically it's like if you brought a friend in to workfor you, charged them adollar an hour, and told them to enjoy doing whatever you do for a job. They pay you to do your work for them. I think the people doing this deserve something back from SOE, besides the pain, frustration, and annoyance of poor, late, and uneducated replies from the Dev's with information that isn't current or important.My guess? They're working on the space expansion because their bosses see a huge revenue coming in when that ships. Remember that the Dev's are required to do what they do by people who don't even realize that we have minds, to them we're just numbers that don't make decisions themselves.
I guess it depends on you're point of view. I'd much rather do some of this myself (I'm a freak that enjoys testing and debugging software) and leave the devs more time to actually work on the game than have them waste their time on detailed point by point update notes.
I completely agree with Jenden. As a game developer on the side, at least until someone offers me a job doing it instead of my own work, I find bugs, and I fix them. However alot of times I don't find the code. It's not because I don't want to, it's just that somehow I miss them. Then someone else playing my game finds the bug and tells me about it. I go see if I can duplicate it and then if so, fix it.
HA! I'm the same way.....I guess that's why we're there.
Jenden wrote:
I guess it depends on you're point of view. I'd much rather do some of this myself (I'm a freak that enjoys testing and debugging software) and leave the devs more time to actually work on the game than have them waste their time on detailed point by point update notes.
Tarne_Monter wrote:
Jenden wrote:
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
I think you're missing their point.
SOE is getting free, extensive, thourough, and extremely well done testing data from letting players do it. All the changes they've made could be easily documented and posted, but that would require work on their part. The person didn't mean that just WE have this problem, but that SOE is doing this to all professions.
What Drashk and the others are doing is work. Hard, tedious, work. And SOE isn't paying a dime for it, they're actually getting paid! Basically it's like if you brought a friend in to workfor you, charged them adollar an hour, and told them to enjoy doing whatever you do for a job. They pay you to do your work for them. I think the people doing this deserve something back from SOE, besides the pain, frustration, and annoyance of poor, late, and uneducated replies from the Dev's with information that isn't current or important.
My guess? They're working on the space expansion because their bosses see a huge revenue coming in when that ships. Remember that the Dev's are required to do what they do by people who don't even realize that we have minds, to them we're just numbers that don't make decisions themselves.
I guess it depends on you're point of view. I'd much rather do some of this myself (I'm a freak that enjoys testing and debugging software) and leave the devs more time to actually work on the game than have them waste their time on detailed point by point update notes.
I completely agree with Jenden. As a game developer on the side, at least until someone offers me a job doing it instead of my own work, I find bugs, and I fix them. However alot of times I don't find the code. It's not because I don't want to, it's just that somehow I miss them. Then someone else playing my game finds the bug and tells me about it. I go see if I can duplicate it and then if so, fix it.
Look Tarne, and Jenden for that matter. I know you are working hard, and I appreciate it. However, just because you both get your jollies from investigative detective work does not alter the fact that somewhere in Devland there is a specification document that details all the changes made.
Surely the purpose of Test Center is to test that the changes made to the code are reflected in the construction and end product.
All I'm saying is that it would be a whole lot more efficient if the change control document was published by SOE. They can edit out the *ensure Probot attack speed never exceeds x.xx* thats fine if they want.
Ahh well, I guess some people just missed my point entirely..nevermind
Keep up the good work all, and again, thankyou for it.
SkyeDarkangel wrote:
I think you're missing their point.
SOE is getting free, extensive, thourough, and extremely well done testing data from letting players do it. All the changes they've made could be easily documented and posted, but that would require work on their part. The person didn't mean that just WE have this problem, but that SOE is doing this to all professions.
What Drashk and the others are doing is work. Hard, tedious, work. And SOE isn't paying a dime for it, they're actually getting paid! Basically it's like if you brought a friend in to workfor you, charged them adollar an hour, and told them to enjoy doing whatever you do for a job. They pay you to do your work for them. I think the people doing this deserve something back from SOE, besides the pain, frustration, and annoyance of poor, late, and uneducated replies from the Dev's with information that isn't current or important.
My guess? They're working on the space expansion because their bosses see a huge revenue coming in when that ships. Remember that the Dev's are required to do what they do by people who don't even realize that we have minds, to them we're just numbers that don't make decisions themselves.
Sounds to me as if someone at SOE actually DID his Junior High School homework in American Literature.
*anyone remember who Samuel Clemens was?* 
Jenden wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Here's something that just crossed my mind - are repair modules still in the schematics?
If all it takes is a droid with a repair module to repair a droid fully as they do now, doesn't that sort of make the wound packs relatively unattractive compared to the resource cost?
Audio
I think it will be a trade off. Repair modules will be cheaper, but you'll need someone else helping you for it, whereas the reconstruction kits are more expensive, but you don't need to track down someone with a repair droid or who will hold you're droid for you.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Look Tarne, and Jenden for that matter. I know you are working hard, and I appreciate it. However, just because you both get your jollies from investigative detective work does not alter the fact that somewhere in Devland there is a specification document that details all the changes made.
Surely the purpose of Test Center is to test that the changes made to the code are reflected in the construction and end product.
All I'm saying is that it would be a whole lot more efficient if the change control document was published by SOE. They can edit out the *ensure Probot attack speed never exceeds x.xx* thats fine if they want.
Ahh well, I guess some people just missed my point entirely..nevermind
Keep up the good work all, and again, thankyou for it.
Shian,
Basicially it comes down to this. Each Major Publish produces X amount of pages of code changes, where X is usually at the very least 100 pages of code change descriptions. (I believe Q-3PO mentioned 300+ pages for Publish 3 or 4).This is the master copy of items that would include everything from 'Changed punctuation in Nym's Quest dialog.' to 'Added secondary pass on /tip verification.' There will also be tons of information that the DEVs would not want the game users to know, especially if it was Jedi related, such as 'Added Politician to the list of possible profession needed to unlock the FSS.' There is also the problem of items on the Master list being removed before the code even touches Test Center, because it did not pass a check on the Internal Test Server.
Where patch notes are concerned, we have to consider the amount of changes that occur during each and every the programmers change a small part of the game code. The vast majority of the changes that take place are back end changes that the general public would not understand. Can you imagine the huge volume of questions that would arise if the DEVs listed each and every change that was made during a Publish cycle? What you are asking for would make the process of adding Patch notes a long and tedious process that would only cause more questions than we currently see.
Something else to consider is that listing all the changes to each profession would take away a part of the games mystery and challenge factor. It would be like handing someone a thought puzzle along with a detailed description on how to solve the puzzle. Part of the draw with playing a crafting profession in a MMORPG is trying to figure out what makes the profession tick and how to go about making the best possible good. If the DEVs handed us a manuel that discribed every single aspect of a new feature, wouldn't the prospect of trying out the new feature be diminished?
I can see the point of wanting a 'Master List' of items to test out, however the Patch notes that the DEVs are giving to the TC community have come along way from the earlier publishes. Publish 7 appears to be the best user end documented Publish so far and maybe at some point down the road we may see a more indepth list of changes, but I don't think that we will. (Personal opinion)
Something that I didn't point out in the previous post is the fact that doing something like this takes away from actual development time. If an intern was used to write out notes on a publish, the intern would have to track down the programmer and play 20 questions about this or that item on the list. People have coined the term 'DEV speak'. DEV speak is nothing in comparison to Programmer speak. If you've ever spent some time working with a few different people on the same computer program, you will understand what I mean by that. If you haven't, just take this as an example of what I mean.
Malitevv wrote:
I also agree that they ought to be documenting more things. I mean we still have no idea if there is even suppossed to be a difference between two differently experimented crafting modules. Surely, the guy who wrote the code knows! That is not the sort of thing we should be forced to test.
They don't have to take away from development time for that either IMO. Hire a college intern for a few months whose only job is to document everything that isn't documented. Companies hire college interns for that kind of grunt work all the time. :-)
I don't want a master list. I just want some documentation about what the rules of the game are. We don't even really have that. 
Patches aside, the learning curve for this gameis steep, and it not because its excessively complicated to play.
Drashk wrote:
Something that I didn't point out in the previous post is the fact that doing something like this takes away from actual development time. If an intern was used to write out notes on a publish, the intern would have to track down the programmer and play 20 questions about this or that item on the list. People have coined the term 'DEV speak'. DEV speak is nothing in comparison to Programmer speak. If you've ever spent some time working with a few different people on the same computer program, you will understand what I mean by that. If you haven't, just take this as an example of what I mean.