Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Could you point out where the devs 'shot this down'? They shot down the cert idea since it was adding additional abilities to combat classes 'for free'. I don't recall seeing anything where they rejected the idea of implementing some combat droid ability within DE.
Are there any modifications you'd suggesest at all to make it more viable, or are you just against the idea of adding combat droid ability within DE + combat tree? We would be spending extra points to control combat droids with the proposal of requiring something like ranged support IV.
Message Edited by Javac on 03-08-2004 11:20 AM
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anything that makes combat droids available only to DEs is worthless.
Let me give an example of why this would fail. One of my friends is a BE and spends a great deal of time making really good pets. She sells very few.
Why? Because CHs continually tell her "Why would I spend a bunch of money for a great pet, when I can tame and get ones almost as good for free whenever I want." Yes this is partially wrong, because BE-made pets are superior (by far) to tamed pets. But this is the way players think.
If you get people dabbling in the DE tree, they are going to make their own droids. They probably won't make the best droids in the world, but it would be much cheaper for them to make a bunch of cheap, expendable combat droids than pay money to other DEs for ones that are fully experimented, but only a little better. Suggest this, and DEs will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Besides that, devs have already shot this down. Anything that adds abilities to the DE profession (such as the ability to control stronger droids) will not fly with the devs unless DEs spend extra skill points for it.
1. This proposal does NOT make combat droids only available th DE, thats the whole point.
Daker, you're really not understanding the proposal.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anything that makes combat droids available only to DEs is worthless.
Let me give an example of why this would fail. One of my friends is a BE and spends a great deal of time making really good pets. She sells very few.
Why? Because CHs continually tell her "Why would I spend a bunch of money for a great pet, when I can tame and get ones almost as good for free whenever I want." Yes this is partially wrong, because BE-made pets are superior (by far) to tamed pets. But this is the way players think.
If you get people dabbling in the DE tree, they are going to make their own droids.
If someone was "dabbling" in the DE tree to control combat droids, which would be put in the 0040 tree of DE, they would not be able to make droids at all.
They probably won't make the best droids in the world, but it would be much cheaper for them to make a bunch of cheap, expendable combat droids than pay money to other DEs for ones that are fully experimented, but only a little better. Suggest this, and DEs will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Besides that, devs have already shot this down. Anything that adds abilities to the DE profession (such as the ability to control stronger droids) will not fly with the devs unless DEs spend extra skill points for it.
There are skill points spent to do this. It would require Ranged Support or some other profession to "unlock" the ability to use combat droids. Under this proposal, it would require the same amount of skill points as a CH spends to control CL 36 pets. It is the most balanced proposal I've seen yet.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anything that makes combat droids available only to DEs is worthless.
Let me give an example of why this would fail. One of my friends is a BE and spends a great deal of time making really good pets. She sells very few.
Why? Because CHs continually tell her "Why would I spend a bunch of money for a great pet, when I can tame and get ones almost as good for free whenever I want." Yes this is partially wrong, because BE-made pets are superior (by far) to tamed pets. But this is the way players think.
If you get people dabbling in the DE tree, they are going to make their own droids. They probably won't make the best droids in the world, but it would be much cheaper for them to make a bunch of cheap, expendable combat droids than pay money to other DEs for ones that are fully experimented, but only a little better. Suggest this, and DEs will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Besides that, devs have already shot this down. Anything that adds abilities to the DE profession (such as the ability to control stronger droids) will not fly with the devs unless DEs spend extra skill points for it.
1. This proposal does NOT make combat droids only available th DE, thats the whole point.
2. People dabbling in the DE tree just to get the ability to control combat droids will be making nothing because they will not have the schematics or skill to do so. Anyone who takes up more of DE than is required for this proposal is, de-facto, becoming a DE themselves, and as such have the right to make whatever droids they are able to.
3 I think you are mistaken, the Devs have never had any opportunity to shoot this down, because it is new.
4. If you would please re-read the proposal you would see that it DOES require more skillpoints to get the combat droid component.
I don't want to be rude Daker, but your post is virtually ignoring the proposal. Please read it again and reconsider. If you do that and still disagree then fine, but all your points are addressed in the proposal.
Thankyou
Darker, did you even READ the post before you replied?
Don't bother replying to Darker. He again has trolled the other thread to derail it because he is crying over a one-star.
He obviously hasn't even read the material, and isn't worth the time.
Audio
/agree
AudioOrgana wrote:
He obviously hasn't even read the material
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anything that makes combat droids available only to DEs is worthless.
Let me give an example of why this would fail. One of my friends is a BE and spends a great deal of time making really good pets. She sells very few.
Why? Because CHs continually tell her "Why would I spend a bunch of money for a great pet, when I can tame and get ones almost as good for free whenever I want." Yes this is partially wrong, because BE-made pets are superior (by far) to tamed pets. But this is the way players think.
If you get people dabbling in the DE tree, they are going to make their own droids. They probably won't make the best droids in the world, but it would be much cheaper for them to make a bunch of cheap, expendable combat droids than pay money to other DEs for ones that are fully experimented, but only a little better. Suggest this, and DEs will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Besides that, devs have already shot this down. Anything that adds abilities to the DE profession (such as the ability to control stronger droids) will not fly with the devs unless DEs spend extra skill points for it.
You're wrong about this and let me tell you why.
This proposal balances the amount of pet lvls you get for the amount of skill points you spend only until you reach 0040 DE. After that, the only bonus is in MDE -- and that's only under one variant. Thus, the extra points people will spend beyond 0040 DE are not going get them the same amount of pet lvls. This fact means several things: 1) true combat dabblers will not go for it, becuase they could get real combat pay off bonuses in other professions. 2) This is not a CH/BE clone. CHs get a steady increase in pet lvls as they progress. This plan cuts off the pet lvls after 0040 DE. Unless people WANT to craft droids, they will not be progressing to MDE. And if they WANT to craft droids, they're full blown DEs and they should be WELCOMED into the club, not shunned -- no need to lament DEs crafting great droids.
Additionally, "incumbant" DEs have the advantage of 1) havinggathered the rare resources needed to be an EFFECTIVE DE like lidium extrusive ore, 2) the new crafting nerf makes it so that MDEs and MDEs with +25 Droid Expermentation tapes are at a significant advantage.
Daker, it was really bad form of you to post discussion in the voting thread. Everyone has been really constructive until now. As you can see, the debate continues. Its not to late for you to edit your message. Audio and I can edit our replies too. I found you calling Audio a jerk very ironic.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
.
Daker, it was really bad form of you to post discussion in the voting thread. Everyone has been really constructive until now. As you can see, the debate continues. Its not to late for you to edit your message. Audio and I can edit our replies too. I found you calling Audio a jerk very ironic.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anything that makes combat droids available only to DEs is worthless.
Besides that, devs have already shot this down. Anything that adds abilities to the DE profession (such as the ability to control stronger droids) will not fly with the devs unless DEs spend extra skill points for it.
All variants of this plan call for extra skill points spent to get combat droids usage. Are you just trying to distort things by purposefully ignoring a major component of the plan, or are you so reactionary and blinded with rage that you didn't see that little nugget?
Another thing in light of your discussion in the no discussion thread, get a gander at this thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=68276
We're trying to pull together here man. Your effort to pollute the consensus by discussing things ina voting-only thread where you could have discussed them here is contrary to that effort and clear calculated to do by volume of posts what you cannot do by volume of posts. Its not appreciated.
Go back through and read this entire thread. Maybe you'll change your mind.
Heh. Oops.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
.
Daker, it was really bad form of you to post discussion in the voting thread. Everyone has been really constructive until now. As you can see, the debate continues. Its not to late for you to edit your message. Audio and I can edit our replies too. I found you calling Audio a jerk very ironic.
Actually, that was Virt.
I didn't reply to Darker in the thread, only here.
Audio
Javac wrote:
With people dabbling in DE they won't be able to build what they can control at all with just a single line, or even anything usable. Some of them may go on to become full-fledged DE's but that's to be expected, new combat droids or not. On my sever, the best equipment always goes for a premium. If it's not the best it better be nearly at cost in order to sell at all!
Yes, some of them will go on and become full fledged DE's, thereby saturating the market...that's exactly my point buddy. Additionally, I think your thought that people will only dabble in DE for the pet tree is wrong...if they can make their own pets for 14 additional skill points, why wouldn't they? Using my example, this is EXACTLY what was happening with CH....people were picking up the handing tree and the taming tree and nothing else.Dabbler CHs were not only picking up only the handlingtree, they were picking up the taming tree as well. This was why CH was nerfed, and the taming and handling abilities spread throughout the profession. What you are suggesting is for people to be able to do exactly the same as CH...to pick up the droid blueprint and handling tree, and to never need a crafter DE again. Don't say it won't happen...it already has (with CH)
Could you point out where the devs 'shot this down'? They shot down the cert idea since it was adding additional abilities to combat classes 'for free'. I don't recall seeing anything where they rejected the idea of implementing some combat droid ability within DE.
I looked for it and couldn't find it. There was a post a couple of weeks ago where TH was again talking about "extra checkers." He was saying that certs wouldn't work. However, he ALSO said that putting certs for droid level in any existing skill tree (including DE) was an extra checker and was impermissible. He said that players will have to spend AT LEAST as many skill points as a CH has to get combat droids. He specifically mentioned a proposal where DEs got combat droid certs put in one of their trees, commenting that there was NO WAY droid levels could be limited to one tree's worth of skill points. TH said they would have to be spread throughout the DE profession (just like CH currently is) for it to be considered.
If you look at TH's original droid proposal, this is exactly what he proposed...droid pet level spread throughout ALL the 4 DE trees. That is the only way DEs are going to be droid certs, and DEs have already shot that down.
By the way, please note that CH has to master 2 skill trees to get pets above CL10, whereas Sodan's proposal has you mastering only one (engineering). There is no way this proposal is going to fly.
Are there any modifications you'd suggesest at all to make it more viable, or are you just against the idea of adding combat droid ability within DE + combat tree? We would be spending extra points to control combat droids with the proposal of requiring something like ranged support IV.
I am against adding any combat ability to the DE tree. If any droid advantage is given to DE, I think it should be accomplished by giving master DEs the ability to call more than one droid (in other words multiple combat droids), rather than encouraging intruders into the DE profession. No one will master DE just to get an additional droid, but DEs would get an advantage nonetheless.
I will also note the following: TH has NEVER, EVER, EVER, said that the DE mini-profession idea wouldn't work...he just said there isn't time to get it into the game by publish 7 or 8.
The mini profession idea is summarized as follows: When a player masters a novice profession or enters an elite or hybrid profession, they (including DEs) get access to a two-tree mini-tree that they can spend skill points within to get droid combat function.
TH has said this idea would probably work, DEs have generally accepted this idea, and this would add high-level combat droids to the game AND give DEs a market by making those droids available to anyone who spends the skill points for them. In my opinion, this is the perfect solution.
Therein lies my frustration. There has already been reached a perfect solution, which tooks weeks of fighting to arrive at.The only hangup of that solution was the inability of devs to implement it by publish 7 or 8. Now that solution has been abandoned, and old ideas are being re-proposed. I think it is a step in the wrong direction...
Arcid wrote:
This proposal has been built around the idea that it won't do any good to simply integrate droid control into the current trees, but to modify it so that droid control is isolated from any actual construction ability then it will provide a method for droid control which will be taken by a lot of people, with only a few actually investing more skillpoints to construct droids, thus providing a good market.
So why not have a mini-droid profession that has 2 trees not in the DE professions. Doesn't that accomplish the same thing without violating the DE profession?
Also this idea isn't one of the ones shot down by the devs, indeed it's a modification of one of the original Dev ideas for the dispersion of higher level droids, and it does require an increase in skillpoints in order to use CL10+ droids (An increase of 29 skillpoints either way before you are able to get the combat droids)
Actually, that is wrong... The reason TH proposed the dispersion is that the devs deemed it unreasonable for droid handling ability to be confined to one tree because it gives too mych power for dabbling. That is part of my point. For a more detailed discussion see above.
Also, it DOES NOT include an increase of ANYTHING to use CL10+ droids. You are simply mastering a tree that is already there. DEs don't even have to spend that extra 29 skill points...all masters already have.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
.
Daker, it was really bad form of you to post discussion in the voting thread. Everyone has been really constructive until now. As you can see, the debate continues. Its not to late for you to edit your message. Audio and I can edit our replies too. I found you calling Audio a jerk very ironic.
Actually, that was Virt.
I didn't reply to Darker in the thread, only here.
Audio
