Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Publish 7 Update
TheRealTK421 wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
We see a HUGE nerf that you keep pooh-poohing, and very, very little additional content for customers who are expecting a hell of a lot more out of a "Droid Invasion".
I'm not pooh-poohing the armor change, Audio. I know it's going to hurt.
On the flip side, I see the positive in that we do have a working ability to actually 'stim' our droids...something we've been asking for forever and now finally have. That is a good thing.
Yes, it would have been a good thing under the old system. In the new system, it's largely irrelevant. People weren't asking to constantly stim their droids during battle to keep them alive, they wanted to be able to heal them up after and go fight again. So yes, they are giving us the shiny new apple (six-eight months late) with one hand, but slapping us accross the face with the other. I have said since the beginning, yes, the stimpacks are nice, but it's not going to matter once people realize how very weak our droids are now.
Tell us how we aren't going to mind sitting at our factories, producing 2-3 times the parts we were before and getting a droid that is WORSE than before the patch;
I'mnotgoing to mind it because I probably won't take the time to make EVERY part myself. I'm thinking I'll sub-contract these with a lower-level DE (so that both he/she and I get something out of the deal).I'm not 100% on that yet...but it's something I'm going to look into...
That's great, it's coping - but still does not justify how ourProbots need more than twice as many parts yet are going to be much weaker. The higher damage won't matter if the droid can't survive more than one shot. It's great you are finding a way to "deal" with it - but it still isn't something POSITIVE. It'sa lot more work for less of a reward.
tell us how doubling the named resources we need will be fun, especially when the additions are for a product that most people aren't even going to need/will laugh at for weak CL-10 pets; tell us how people downloading that Wallpaper aren't going to log in an excpect to find those droids on our vendors.
Well, I agree that the Wallpaper was mis-stating the Droid Invasion, from a certain point of view. Those droids ARE now in the game...just not in the way that most people are expecting.
Actually, they won't be in the game when the publish goes live. They will be in the game two weeks later. For those two weeks, it's all about us. I've heard the arguments about the Corvette being the "invasion" and it's weak - as much as I have enjoyed going up in the Corvette we have only known about it for a few weeks - this "Invasion" was planned and announced publicly long before then. People (and the uber-padded patch notes) say droids and DE"s are the focus of this invasion. I haven't made a huge deal about that wallpaper, but the fact that it's up there and that anyone can see the patch notes have way too many, "A combat droid module can be put in any combat capable droid. (next) A combat module is made like any other module, etc." says a lot to confirm our fears, and that they realize, an "Invasion" this is not.
Do you not think I'm going to have to deal with the same kinds of upset people that you (and all of us) will?
I'm sure you will. If that's the case - you must understand why so many of us arejust finally throwing our hands upwith frustration at what a fiasco this is going to turn out to be for us as players. And if so, you understand why making generalizations and "wishing" we'd stay positive in public is not conducive to feeling better about the situation, only worse. We may try to recoup financially, but the player perception about the usefulness of droids remains unchanged, and it's now or never - this is our big day.
Unless they REALLY ramp it up for Publish 8 (by implementing some form of combat droid in spite of earlier miscommunications and false assumptions on everyones part), or by truly giving us the utility droids that people crave (i.e. except for the merchant module, what is on the plate does not fill that criteria), DE is going to remain the niche profession in a galaxy where we should be one of the most prominent.
I know that having more parts to make is going to change how people play DE. As of yet, I'm not convinced that this is a bad thing..just a different thing.
I full well understand the concept of "not a bad thing, a different thing" (like that side of the argument of the big crafting nerf), but in this case I really don't think it applies.
/bow
- DE's who build droids by hand (a la Luke Skywalker) will simply take more time and work to build a single droid; prices have to go up to make it profitable, but the function in terms of combat is going to be seen as greatly diminished. It would be one thing if we had a choice between armor/damage, but now with virtually no armor it's stim or die.
- DE's who have moderate sized operations are going to have to buy extra houses just to fill with backpacks of components.
- DE's who run large industrial operations (like myself) are simply going to be capped even further. Some may think this is a good thing, which is what I think you are getting at; it might be a good thing if it would help everyone else, but it's not - making droids less visible and as niche items made only by hand and driving the few industrial operations that help create the market out while at the same time making them harder for even the "little guy" to make is not good for anyone.
If you used to make 400 Droid Brains in a run, now you might want to run less and commit your factory runs to smaller or more specific parts. I'm not telling you how to run your business here...just making the point that this release is going to change the 'business model' for all DEs...not just you.
Um, I never said it was all about me, but the thing is - in my personal situation, the situation of other DE's, and the perception of customers, I see the same thing.I don't see what making less parts in factories is going to help me whenDE's need MORE of them - unless again you simply think it will be good to limit the amount of droids people can make. I'm not sure you understand what the problem is in terms ofparts : we need MORE parts to do a WORSE job than before. Any way you cut it, the only thing weare going to break into in terms of markets is the relatively dead CL-10 non-mount pets. With an armor nerf we are losing both our customers that enjoyed them as a mini-tank, and those who appriciated having their utility modules in a droid that could last a few shots in battle.
My "business model" is very adaptable, always has been - I'm one of the few DE's that have made 10's of millions with droids because I find the markets and I fill them. And from that perspective, I can tell you - the two biggest markets for Probots just went down the tubes. I think some people will try out the LE's with combat, but they will be like the cute CL-10 creature pet you keep in your pack named "Kitty" for roleplaying. Combat modules will become an add-in when trying to fill out an R3 droid for someone who doesn't want it stacked up with crafting stations and has an extra module slot or two.
None of that is what the playerbase is expecting with the Droid Invasion.
If you have a TRUE positive light to shed on this, TK - by all means do so.
Well...errr...I just started this, Audio. You don't mind if I try to get on top of some of this new info by testing and trying some of this out, do you?
Not at all.I would not have brought it up if you had not challenged the perceptions of the DE community that this patch will mean very little to customers and simply more work for us. You can't tell us we are wrong for thinking the way we do without telling us why. If you need time to figure out why, that's fine - but wait to tell us we are wrong until you figure it out.
If you have rehetoric and want to sing "Kumbayah", then just ignore me - don't bother to reply.
You know I can't ignore you. I don't want to sing happy songs. What I do want to do is not look at the entire release as lemons but try to see it for the lemonade that we can make. Right now, I have very little experience with changes. So, I appreciate your patience as I try to get a handle on how the changes will actually play out in the long term.
Well, the way for us to not look at it as lemons would have been more obvious if they hadn't a) nerfed armor or b) released that wallpaper to further the notion that the Droid Invasion is about combat droids for them. The problem is that that nerf is not only going to kill several markets for NEW droids, it also is going to royally PO the customers we already have.
The problem is, our definition isn't really changing in a positive way - and that's the bottom line. At the same time, we are being asked to a) work harder, and b) ask our customersto swallow a HUGE nerf.
I wish you luck in findinglemonade that tastes better than the water we already had - because when all is saidand done, I think many of us are going to wish we had just been happy with our plain ol' H2O (DEpre-publish 6) in the first place and never dared ask for anything more.
Audio
Respectfully,
- BE tanking pet :high HAM, low damage
- DE ranged support droid :lowHAM, high damage
I agree we would need to get back the 40% AR2 armor.
But maybe SOE designers see the CL 10 droids as fragil damage dealers and BE pets as tanking compagnons.
In wich case they are complementary...
What do you think?
Message Edited by jefmes on 03-15-2004 09:43 PM
Arnwald wrote:
Hello,
regarding the changes on droids it seems players have 2 choices for CL 10 "pets"
- BE tanking pet :high HAM, low damage
- DE ranged support droid :lowHAM, high damage
I agree we would need to get back the 40% AR2 armor.
But maybe SOE designers see the CL 10 droids as fragil damage dealers and BE pets as tanking compagnons.
In wich case they are complementary...
What do you think?
Dammit why do people not understand
CL 10 is the MAXIMUM we could make, given perfect resources and perfect experimentation....which is not going to happen.
Therefore, we make, on average Lower than CL 10 droids at our best.
And a CL 10 creature can be buffed, so where is the level playing field???
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Arnwald wrote:
Hello,
regarding the changes on droids it seems players have 2 choices for CL 10 "pets"
- BE tanking pet :high HAM, low damage
- DE ranged support droid :lowHAM, high damage
I agree we would need to get back the 40% AR2 armor.
But maybe SOE designers see the CL 10 droids as fragil damage dealers and BE pets as tanking compagnons.
In wich case they are complementary...
What do you think?
Dammit why do people not understand
CL 10 is the MAXIMUM we could make, given perfect resources and perfect experimentation....which is not going to happen.
Atm only wait for publish 8. We aren't supposed to get over CL 10 till then.
Therefore, we make, on average Lower than CL 10 droids at our best.
And a CL 10 creature can be buffed, so where is the level playing field???
You can't buff damage output, only HAM, and yes I agree BE pets can have special effect atacks
Arnwald wrote:
Atm only wait for publish 8. We aren't supposed to get over CL 10 till then.
What good is that if we can't build CL10 to begin with unless everything goes absolutely perfect when it comes to gathering resources with the right stats, being mistake free during every stage of crafting, and not having a single failure during experimentation?
OutlawEdi wrote:
Arnwald wrote:
Atm only wait for publish 8. We aren't supposed to get over CL 10 till then.
What good is that if we can't build CL10 to begin with unless everything goes absolutely perfect when it comes to gathering resources with the right stats, being mistake free during every stage of crafting, and not having a single failure during experimentation?
Arnwald
I dunno where you have been hiding, but Pub 7 is the so called Invasion, Pub 8 is about utility droids only.
So your statement about us getting >CL10 doids in Pub 8 is just plain wrong.
That is what worries me so about the whole thing, people like you are still expecting, and as things stand it simply is not going to happen. Thats is with you reading the forums, Lord knows what the majority of the players who don't read the forums are thinking and expecting.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
OutlawEdi wrote:
Arnwald wrote:
Atm only wait for publish 8. We aren't supposed to get over CL 10 till then.
What good is that if we can't build CL10 to begin with unless everything goes absolutely perfect when it comes to gathering resources with the right stats, being mistake free during every stage of crafting, and not having a single failure during experimentation?
Arnwald
I dunno where you have been hiding, but Pub 7 is the so called Invasion, Pub 8 is about utility droids only.
So your statement about us getting >CL10 doids in Pub 8 is just plain wrong.
That is what worries me so about the whole thing, people like you are still expecting, and as things stand it simply is not going to happen. Thats is with you reading the forums, Lord knows what the majority of the players who don't read the forums are thinking and expecting.
Hello,
I was hiding in the forums
Well in all I read and when I try to have SOE way of view of his customers base I think P8 would bring the Droid Handler profession or Certifications system, but I'm sorry I can't spare anything I'm smoking atm I really need it to digest the Armor "nerf"
I really know about the communication issue on the Droid invasion I even made a post on all galaxies forums telling " WOOT WE ARE GETTING 2 UBER COMBAT DROID /sarcasm off" well, guess what... they have been deleted very fast!
TK asked TH to change the wallpaper title to something else and nothing had been done.
I would like to be ableto redirect all customers spams for Combat droids to SOE mail box, it would really be funny
About the new probots they aren't so bad for ranged support (only), the stims are way too much expansive to produce / sell. I'm worried the probot is the weakest of all combat droids.
I don't like the exploding mouse and the laser duck taped R2 is... no word for that in my dictionary.
Each day I'm praying the mystical force to bring us back the 40% AR2 armor...
