Droid Engineer Archive

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Dagrin wrote:

What about the possiblity of a DE mount? Just like other mounts it has the benefit of being a pet while not being ridden.

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Not a DE here, but reading thru TH's comments it seems like sooo much is riding on the Combat Droids... Why should the DE profession (and droids in general) be based so heavily on Combat Droids?

Now, I understand that Combat is a huge part of this game, but if you make droids more profession specific (and the cert system is certainly an easy way to make that happen), you can make them more swiss-army knife-like, as a rule overall.

I posted this idea previously, here is the link:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=30875

I was told Droid Cert ideas were bad for business by the DE communtiy, but this seems like what is being implemented now, so I'll post the idea again here.

Basically, I want to understand why TH's comments are so based on the Combat Droid concept and not branching out the utilitarian concepts of droids based on more profession specific aspects (as illustrated below)?

REPOST:
OK, I have an idea how to make DE's more useful and how to help turn this into less Pet wars and more droid wars without going overboard.

This info is reposted from Discussion Forum Boards here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=709413

I left out the Pet ideas, since this isn't the place for them. You can read the original thread if you want to see those, but that is what started the thoughts on the Droids.

From Rosslek:

If the DEVs want to implement more or better combat droids they need a new chassis. A probot is not a combat droid, it is reconaissance. And the nerf to 800HAM and reduced attack brings it more in line with a recon droid. 3100HAM was to high for it.

I for one think the DE profession need a lot of love, but Combat Droids?No way! What's the difference between this and everyonehaving attack Creature Pets? The same argument applies in this case, did you see everyone in the movies running around with a combat droid? No... In fact Eps IV-VI showcased more mounts then combat droids.

The best way to help DE profession IMHO, is to implement more modules. Surveying or harvester gathering (Hell that's what the purpose of a BLL is supposed to be) for example.And to merge the four skill trees into three inserting vehicles as 4th tree. Since their are only two vehicles going to be available, it doesn't make much sense to have a new mechanic profession.Do the above andrename DE, electronics engineer or something.

From me:

I agree with Rosslek. I don't want everyone running around with monster droids. There does need to be a cert system, but in what Prof? Essentially you end up with the same problem that we are facing now with CH dabblers. Watch Ep4-6 again...not many combat droids... why? Because they are outlawed by the Empire, that's why! There are special permits for security droids and the like, but that's a whole different story. I think his ideas about making over the DE prof into a basic engineer/mechanic are good too.

I like the Survey Droid idea. It could find X WP's of a certain resource (based on module level) and then return with them. You could also have separate modules for the different resource types (mineral, Chem, gas, etc). This could even use the Seeker droid Chasis, with a Survey Droid chip and modules.

Also the Harvester Droid idea. This droid you could 'program' with WP's for your harvesters (datapad module)and it would have to have a storage module, and a 'Bank' Module. You could drop power into the Droid, then tell it to "Run Harvesters." It would then proceed to all WP's in it's datapad, and provide the Harvester with a specific number of creds and power (likely the amount of creds/pwr divided by the number of WP's), and unload the resources, and return to you. That would be cool. Should be a BIG droid though.

The other Droids ideas can be made into chips or modules for droids I think though. I would like to see Ents/Musicians get a schematic for HoloRecording Chip to be able to record them playing or something, for DE's to install in droids in a Sound System Module or something. Ent's could get UXP for Ent Healing I think for it too. Would also give Ent's a way to make money.

From me, again:

• Tank droids cert (high HAM, armour, low accuracy, dmg) for Master Marksmen (or give the Riflemen some love here). (Droiddeka with shield module {allowed only on this chassy}, bad weapons on chassy)
  
• Ranged attack droids that fire a lot of suppression fire for Brawler Masters (and subsequent specialty/eliteprofessions). (Better Probe Droids and/or Suppression Fire Module?)
  
• Multi-droid Cert(2-3?) for SL (with CL limits for total droid levels, but the actual droid certs would have to come from other professions that they are in).
  
• We've already discussed Harvester and Survey Droids for Artisans and subsequent profesions... (Binary Load Lifter Chassy, and Seeker Chassy, respectively)
  
• AndHawker Droids (up to vendor amount limit, called at once)for Merchants (place in city limits, will shout out info at set intervals) 3PO unit w/ Hawker module?.
  
• Obviously Seeker and Arakyd droids for Novice BH
  
• Cant think of anything for Rangers and Scouts since I think of them being more Creature based anyways.
  
• Sampler Droid Certs for Bio Engineers (so the Droid can take the Aggro first, and not the player - Current Probe Droids with Sample Module?)
  
• Duh- Med and Surgical Droids for Docs and Medics (med droid cert for N.Medic, surg. droid cert for Doc- is there any real difference here? There should be!)
  
• Entertainment Droids (see previous post about Ent recording chip & Sound System Module[Sound System Modulecan be put in any droid though], include modules for light shows and pyrotechnics), obviously for Ent's (muscial accompanyment for Dancers, light shows for Musicians) (Also 3PO's?).
  
• Bartender/Server Droids for Chefs (uses storage unit Realistically Vendors can more easily fulfill this role.

I separated by colour for the different posts. I'd like to hear consensus thoughts fom the DE community. Additionally whioch of these things would require new Chassies, and which would just need new modules? Some seem obvious, but others?

Additionally:
Yeah, the DE's would get the cert for the droid at the same time they'd be able to craft the droid...and the DE would be able to bring multiple droids much like a CH (addl called droids at varying levels...and additional stored droids ant varying levels). I would propose that a Master DE would be able to being any 2 droids out at once (+1 of a different type), while lower levels wouldn't be able to bring out two of any same droid type out at once (type being combat, medical, etc).

I also like the idea somebody posted (not sure if it was here) about Binary Load lifters being able to be used to move houses or structures without having to redeed them...and keeping all the items safe inside.

/END REPOST

one comment: merging vehicles and DE is a bad idea. it's pretty clear from the tone of the dev's discussions on their vehicle plans, that they have plans far beyond the basic vehicles that are being released this month. plans which I expect, tie into whatever they've got brewing with the upcoming space expansion.

saying that DE and vehicles should be tied together into a single class assumes that the handful of vehicles we have coming this monthis the end of the story for vehicles. THAT is very unlikely.

as far as combat droids are concerned: my feelings are very mixed. I'm pretty disgusted at this point with combat pets of all forms.

It isn't even fun tohunt with a large group when there are CH's in the team and you aren't a CH. You end up just sitting and watching as the monster pets slaughter everything. Not fun at all, unless the pet is yours. But that problem is only specific to CH because CH can pull out multiple combat pets. It's just as boring when the other guy pulls out two AT-ST's as it is if he pulls out two Rancors. Another thing that is very frustrating is that the toughest pets are so big, that if you are standing near one it ends up blocking the screen and you can't even see the things that you are fighting. It is not fun to spend half the combat looking at the inside of the CH pet's bounding box because the infernal thing keeps running over you! **aarggh**

So don't ask me what I think about combat droids. I think the best of them need to be comparable to the creature pets in power, but I do not like the power level of the current creature pets at the current time. They need some serious "achilles heals" in those things, if nothing else.

It’s telling how many errors you made regarding droids. You don’t know jack about this subject, and you care about as much as you know.

My nostalgic love for Star Wars has made me overlook many things in this game. However, the more I hear from “Thuderheart” the more I understand that the fundamental problem with this game is that it’s being managed by a group of bozos.

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Somewhere back on page 4, Thunderheartwrote:

Well, I've gotten clear communications from the DE community that you guys want to BUILD the combat droids but want to sell them. There is a lot of division here and I will need you guys to work with Sintrosi to get me a clear idea of what you want.

I DO hear that you want to be able to build more powerful combat droids and I will look into it, but keep in mind that the big combat balance going on is going to effect current cause and effect in combat and combat droid effectiveness will play a role in that change.

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Problem here. First, lets go for some definitions and clarifications:

• Balance: Fairly equal, an even match, or a comperable skill-set.


• Combat droid effectiveness: Currently doesn't exist. We're all hoping for a change here.


• Creature Handler: A NON COMBAT profession. It is based on scout, which has little to no combat effectiveness. Scout is mostly based on avoiding creatures, understanding the creatures, and running away from them (Terrain Negotiation, Burst Run Efficiency enhancements). Scout, however, has no combat modifiers (such as Melee Defense), and it's only combat use is Trapping, which is only effective on creatures. With minimal combat abilities (no more than Pistols 4 needed, probably even less), a player who just made Creature Handler is suddenly able to SOLO much higher levels of creatures than normal, as well as higher level NPC's which was normally less than possible with basic or fullScout abilities. CH itself also has absolutely NO combat bonuses, leading me to believe it is not meant for combat as much as it is currently used.


• Droid Engineer: Also a NON COMBAT profession, this time focused on crafting rather than understanding and running from creatures (although we need to do a fair amount of that anyways).

Just based on those two profession descriptions, it seems to me that there is a very unfair combat BALANCE issue already in place. A Master CH, while based heavily on non-combat abilities, is still able to SOLO 20k (or higher) payout Dantooine missions with a minimal combat skill-set (such as Pistols 4 as mentioned above). A Master Droid Engineer, on the other hand, with Pistols 4 and toting one of his personal Probots, is currently able to solo much lower payout missions (which as we all know, reflects mission difficulty).

For another comparison, take Non-CH pets (since I know some are upset by the DE-CH example). Lets take the best (as far as I know, I may be wrong). Cowardly Gurrek vs. Probot with max armor. Sadly, when put against eachother, the match is hardly a fair one, with the Gurrek coming out on top with comparably minimal damage. This, once again, points out the enormous balance issue that is currently in the game.

I know non-CH pets are getting reduced in effectiveness, as well as increasing the Probot's effectiveness. While this isa start, it doesn't touch all of the issues. First, non-ch creatures have a massively wide variety for the player to choose from, many of them are even combat effective. On this note, we only have the Probot (the DZ hardly counts). Second, while the probot will have the added selling point of having useful modules to put in it, many players aren't as willing to put their expensive droid on the line, when they can easily get a creature for a much cheaper price (mostly due to the CH not having to put any material costs into their selling price) and use that for cannon fodder.

I believe I'm saying that we need sellable combat-only droids, that we can market to everyone. They need to be easily comparable to creatures, with the same form of variety that creatures have. Example: Cowardly Gurrek has the highest HAM, with decent damage, and minimal armor. The Rock Beetle has 1k less HAM, but has much greater armor and I believe more damage capability. Droids should be customizable by the DE to meet the combat needs of the user. Higher HAM and armor, but reduced damage for the combat type that just needs a tank. Lower HAM and armor, but greatly increased damage for the less-than-combat oriented that needs some help with damage.

Another thing that many, but not all, DE's would like to see is a combat droid that only a DE can use. Not all can justify this (since the programming should be simple enough that even untrained could understand it). We would also like the ability to call more than one at a time. A Master CH can currently call three standard Grauls, which adds up to about 27.9K HAM (I believe 9300 each) and 900 damage (I believe 300 or so each)...that's just freaking NUTS! As a Master DE, we can't even have out more of our droids at once (Ignoring the fact that it would be of little use combat-wise at the moment). I'm not saying to nerf CH, I'm just suggestingthat thiswondrous balance thing finally be implimented. If balance requires nerfing CH to be more of the NON-COMBAT class it should be, then by all means, go for it.

Sorry for the rant, TH...it wasn't exactly directed at you, but more towards you to re-direct at the devs. I can tell you mean well, an I do appreciate you working with us and taking such a great interest in our plight.

Ah yes, I forgot an issue or three.

Batteries: Droids require them, and they run out quickly, making for a fairly expensive addiction. Creatures need nothing of the sort, can be healed by petstims (something droids are also lacking), and are overall better than a probot in the first place. With batteries going through droids like sand through a basketball hoop, and the inability to heal them, no one wants to use them.

Reiterating the cost of the item: Probots generally go for 20k or so, possibly less if the DE isn't hard up for money. This is largly due to material costs, with a Probot ADV taking up 905 in materials, not counting modules such as the all important armor or other mods. At around 3 cpu, that's a minimum of about 3k just in costs. To cover any factory time, as well as a profit margin to attempt to cover other costs lost elsewhere, a 10k-20k price is pretty fair. For a CH to grab a CH creature, it takes simply getting a mission or two of the desired creature, tapping the lair a couple times, and taking about 30 seconds or so for the Success message to appear. They can then turn around and sell this for any number they wish and be making nearly 100% profit (disregarding travel costs, which they usually add in).

Eh, I'm through complaining...I kinda forgot where I was going with it anyways