Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: No combat droids, please
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
I would still like to see the DE as a crafter only profession. I would rather be able to make nice combat droids and other use droids for other players than to just be able to make an uber-combat droid that only I could use.
Trystani Aqaba
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
We need combat droids that are as good or better than creature pets that anyone can own. We need real combat droids chassis, not R2s with blasters. Making improved combat droids and making them controllable by DEs only is like making uber-weapons that only weaponsmiths can wield. We are an artisan class!
A segment of the DE population, which I feel is a minority wants a CH-like setup, but most of us want to be crafters, and make money selling our creations. If you strengthen combat droids and allow everyone or at least all elite professions to use them, you appease DEs that want combat, but you don't alienate the crafters that would be left with no gain, as anyone that could use the new droids would also be able to make them.
The "original trilogy" also shows only one small segment of the galaxy the characters progress through. But even in that segment you obviously missed some very combat oriented droids. Hmmm... Episode 5, on the bridge of Darth's Star Destroyer. What do we see? Bounty hunters. How many are heavily armed droids? 2. One is IG-88 a self-aware Assassin droid. The other is a blaster toting protocol type droid - I can't remember the model number - but he had insectoid eyes and a black chassis and big gun. Also, if you read books, and apparently you don't, there are tons of combat droids in the galaxy. There were before and there always will be as long as the technology for them is there. Xixor (sp?) had an android assassin droid that could pass as human. I think her name was Guri? ( I can't remember)
Another point, Lok has tons of droideka running around.... having droideka just hanging out in the desert makes a lot less sense then droideka being controlled by players. And obviously it battle droids are so much more out of place than rancors and grauls! (sarcasm). This isn't Episode 4.5, this is expanded universe. Personally I have seen almost nothing that would lead me to believe that I'm anywhere near the action that takes place in the movies, so I expect to see a lot of stuff I don't see in the movies.
The conclusion of my rebuttal: Combat Droids Please!!!!!
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
To be fair, there is a minority of DEs who dislike intro'ing combat to the DE profession. They either don't like combat, or they don't want Gunner DEs clouding the profession (like the dabbler CHs) and driving down prices. If you bow to them, then the rest of us DEs interested in better combat droids won't get squat. On the other hand, if you give us combat droids, non-combatant DEs are free to roleplay their characters all the way to crafting nirvana and combatant DEs get to rock the house; this way everyone gets what they want.
See http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=34628
Here's a thought to go with your "brilliant" idea. Make BE able to use the creatures they make but prevent CH from using them. No, wait we can't do that because it'd go against the whole concept that a CH controls the creatures and a BE only engineers them.
I don't think there should be any question here. This game was designed with strict and clear separations between crafter and non-crafter disciplines. There are a few hybrids with strict requirements, like combat-medic, who have crafting skills but use the things they craft in combat. But as I said, these hybrids require a number of pre-requisites. Combat-medic needs: Master medic, ranged weapon combat support.
That said, DE is a crafting profession, technically, if you wanted to purchase your components from a Master Artisan and buy your resources from the bazaar orby paying other players to mine for you,you could get by being a DE with only Artisan Engineering IV. To give combat droids only to DE's is to make them into a hybrid class, and an unbalanced one. Additionally it makes it so that they still can't craft droids for sale, only to fight with themselves, since others wouldn't be able to use them. Weaponsmiths don't get any special, high powered weapon only they can use because they are weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths can't make Armorsmith-Only armor, Architects cannot construct turreted defensive fortresses or give their buildings weapon-systems. Chefs cannot make poison, Tailors cannot construct The-Tarp-of-Doom(TM), Bio-Engineers cannot use the pets they create unless they also take a number of scout-skills and alot of CH skills, etc.
This is how the game was designed and this is how it should continue to work. DE's shouldn't become a combat hybrid class, and they shouldn't get exclusive droids that only they can use, unless that droid is a DE factory droid or something that produces DE components for use in making more droids. That would at least make sense. Basically, ifmore combat droids are implemented, and probots are un-nerfed, either everyone should be able to use them in combat, orthere should be combat-class-specific droid certs (like BH droiduse abilities), that compliment existing combat classes. That way,not onlyDE's but EVERYONE, if he wants, could train in a combat class and use some of thecombat droids available to that class. People wouldn't be forced to train in an artisan profession they will never use just to be able to use combat droids.
Some examples of this have already been put forward, I will reiterate and add a few for illustrative purposes:
-Mouse droids with a mine-layer module for commandos.
-Shield droids for TKA, other melee classes.
-Tank droids/blockers for advanced ranged combat professions.
-Trap droids for rangers, master scouts.
-Enhanced capabilities for medical droids, repair droids, power droids and binary load lifters (cert them if necessary for medics, DE's, and artisans, etc).
Additionally, as an addendum, I think that everyone should be able to have two droids out at once, in order to enable things like having your repair droid fix your own droids. Maybe make it so that only one "combat" droid can be out (or assign droids levels like creatures and make it so that people can only have X number of levels of droids out at a time, so an R2 is like level 5 and a combat droid is level 20 and make the max level 25 or 30or something.) Make it impossible to repair while you are in combat, which would eliminate a combat droid fighting and being repaired by your repair droid. This functionality is also a critical factor in making the game more Star-Warsy (btw), as LukeSkywalker had 2 droids "out", so to speak at the same time, and so should we, he wasn't exactly a Droid Engineer (based on his unskillful "repair" of R2 and his lack of knowledge of how to perform a memory-wipe).
-I AM WARGHUL
People should not need to chose DE in order to get some combat droids. You don't need to be a mechanic in order to possess a car. Making battle droids for DEs only will pretty much destroy the profession for lots of people.
It's like saying only weaponsmiths can use a gun...
Reading many posts here, I begin to get the feeling that the dividing line has one side that likes hunting and killing more than building droids. Many cogent points on what else droids could be doing besides combat are suggested by those clamoring for Combat Droid Handlers so I don't want to throw the Advanced Droid Frame out with the Oil Bath(Sorry
. If the droid crafting process wasn't about as interesting as sorting icons on my desktop, I'd bet the profession would see a whole lot less screams for combat droids. Is the crafting process going to change? No. So we need droids that are more functional, and more interesting to use. "Combat droids!" some scream, would be the MOST useful. I can assure you that I'm an in-game meat shield and nothing more so a droid that could take the occasional Mottled Wrix off my back would be helpful. I also am a member of a guild that has _dozens_ of combat classes, so when I want to go shoot at things that I don't have the power to fight, I bring up the list of online players and sure enough there's someone hacking and slashing their way towards some new box in Adv. Ranged Disemboweling III or something and I say can you help me out. Barring that I may be in a pinch trying to place a harvester so I do a /who and say "Um, I'm trying to place a harvester could you help me clear the area?" 99% of the time, I get a pleasant group and I never once needed a combat droid. Can I go solo hunting, no. Can I throw on my mask scent and run nearly AFK through the whole **edit** world? Pretty much all time in fact!
I think the overall trend in SWG is interdependency between players (i.e. medics can't do all the healing, yet) and keeping Combat Droid Handlers from becoming the "purpose of the DE tree" increases dependency on other people and other professions. I can't imagine why SOE would want to throw that out the window, and many of the combat droid advances being discussed would do that.
Go read this thread for why having two Droideka's and a couple of clone wars droids doesn't make sense in the timeline:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=34317
Then tell me that you don't care about the timeline and this game is already wishy-washy about the backstory with Zabraks running about, everyone's carrying weapons in the open, and the rebels control every thing. OH wait, that would be putting words in peoples mouths I've never met or talked to. I apologize. I'm not trying to start a war inside the DE profession, I'm just questioning the statement that a minority of DE's don't want combat droids. I guess I'm in that group regardless of size, and hopefully we'll get gusto to come to boards and represent those who didn't come to DE to get on another "kill this next bigger thing" treadmill.
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
I think there should either be a convergence of the BE, CH professions if the DE gets combat ability...
Or
have DE and Droid Controller(or some equally star warsy title) professions
btw Im an architect/armorsmith/artisan so either way it wont effect me much either way
Just since BEs have to take CH to use thier pets and you are saying droids will be more versatile and useful in combat(not sure if you said specifically that but I am infering it if you didnt)why would not need to spend the points to use the better droids?
Just what sounds fair to me for all concerned skill points and ability wise.
It seems to me the right answer is also the hardest.
I really like the idea of droids usable by only Droid Engineers. I also really like the idea of a DE having multiple droids out. This being said, I can't think of a reason for a DE to have multiple droids out, unless they were also a combat class. Which starts to go back to the Combat DE.
To me, the right move is to add a new profession, of Combat DE (just as there's a Combat Medic). The Combat DE would be able to craft unique types of droids usable by only him. While the DE stays as an artisan class, capable of building more/better droids than currently possible. Perhaps the DE would have to be a supplier for parts for the Combat DE?
Thunderheart wrote:I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
Personally, I think the combat/crafter mix is fine as long as it's MOSTLY crafting. Adding 15-25% dealing combat into the mix isn't going to radically change the profession.
What a lot of us are afraid of is turning DE into a something that looks exactly like CH.
/rant