Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: No combat droids, please
I speak this as a Master Artisan leaning towards DE until they move vehicles into their own profession, but more importantly as a Star Wars fan who doesn't want to see combat droids in the post-Clone War era.
For those of you who are either MMORPG players or just trying it out, here's some background info. As is widely known, the Trade Federation created a vast droid army, and when things got out of hand, the Old Republic sent in it's clones to take back control. Skipping through a bit, there was a lot of bloodshed, a lot of chaos, and a lot of unhappiness from this war. Seeing as how it was a war faught between droids and clones, both got a rather nasty reputation across the galaxy. Whereas combat droids were acceptable before the war, they were strictly taboo afterwards. Even non-combat droids got a bad reputation. Why, just look at how the bartender in Mos Eisley treated R2 and 3PO. Are Droideekas in Star Wars? Yes. Are they in the time frame of the original trilogy? No.
Look at the original trilogy, and what roles the droids played there. 3PO translated. R2 provided an interface with mechanical systems. There are power droids. Treadwells. Etc. None were involved in combat (the probot was recon, not combat. It should stay so.)
I think the crafting stations in droids are a good way of making them useful, but I believe they should be more useful, not differently useful, if you get my drift. Make it so roleplayers can have a protocol droid translate for them. My Imperial only knows Basic, but it might be useful to have a droid around to translate in some situations. Neither of my main chars know all languages (on a side note, if someone is a Master Artisan or a composer, don't offer them languages. They've obviously had all the oppurtunity to learn them.) Also, make the crafting stations droid specific. A R2 unit should be able to help build a medicine, but not a wall. The power droids plugging into harvesters is a great idea along these lines. Make it so merchants can have a droid to keep track of records.
I know the march towards combat droids is inevitable, but here's to hoping that I may change some minds.
you have.....not read any of the books, have you.
no, didn't think so.
expanded universe also counts in this game(explain whyplanets such as lok and dathomirfor example would be in here, if it didn't). combat droids are a valid choice.
Not played the game either.. Droidekas are in this game already.. And if you are so concerned about being "true" to star wars then you would know that in the moviesyou are talking about there arenot 50,000 creature handlers with skyscrappers in the middle of the city.. OrAKA Lag Generators!!
Elitros
Battle droids are a simple thing to produce in that day and age and the reason you did not see them in the movies in question was the lack of technology.. (Our RL technology) Lucas did not want to make the movies look cheap..
Forget about the CHs for a sec, will you?
And yes, I did read a large number of the books. The Thrawn trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, etc., but I stopped reading them a while ago. The newest book out when I stopped was the one involving some cyborg-type entity being force sensitive and thus able to use the force on droids, or something like that. About the time that Luke married Mara, also. Maybe combat droids were in some of the newer books, I don't know.
However, they aren't on Tatooine, they would have been off-limits on Rori, Naboo, Corellia, and Talus, I don't think they were mentioned in The Courtship of Princess Leia, they aren't onthe Endor moon, Yavin IV I believe to be out of the question by the way of the Young Jedi books or whatever they were called. This leaves Lok and Dantooine.
I don't think moving the dev's time from combat droids to other uses for droids would necessarily have any economic impact on DEs, as droids would be more viable for other things, and the seperation of droid chassis would push sales of more droids.
IG-88 rocks
Thats fine no combat droids.... but they ought to let player characters be droids and let you guys be thier "medics".
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/ig88/
I hate to be a jerk but...
"Walk a mile in my shoes"
First off as a non-DE, you have no idea what we have been though, you have no idea what its like telling people day in and day out,
"no a medical droid cant heal you"
"no I can't name it a droid type name"
"no, droids cant do that"
Spend the time to read these boards, look at the hundreds of posts about a broken class. Then return here and tell us we can't have a working combat droid because of SW canon.
Look I understand your need to roleplay and stick to the ideals of SW, but look around you. This is a game set in the universe, its not the movie. Ideals are going to be bent, broken and bruised. Look around you, 1000's of CH's....there was what 1 in the movies? There will be hundreds of Jedi...both light and dark...
If you have a workable solution to the problems of the class I'd be more then happy to hear it, the few ideas you give in the original post make us less of a class then we already are.
My recommendation? Don't go DE, its not what you are looking for. Lean somewhere else.
I was a big Star Wars RPG fan that started gaming and reading Star Wars RPG material back in the days of a little company called West End Games. I also have read many different sources of 'Offical Extended Universe'. Any thing thatis published withthe Star Wars logo on it must be approved by a team of George Lucas 'lackeys'.
I might be able to clarify why there aren't many combat Droids seen in the movies, but first lets look at the 2, count them 2, combat droids that are actually seen in Empire Strikes Back. First, there is everyones favorite Combat Droid IG-88. IG-88 is a proto-type combat droid that was created by the Empire as an assassin droid. I'm a bit rusty on the complete story of how IG-88 became the methodical killer/hunter that is seen breifly on the bridge of the Executor, if I remember correctly IG-88 is actually 1 of 5 droids that are of the exact same build and design that share the same droid personality. Each of these 5 Proto-types exisits as the same droid, having the same 'conciousness'. At the point of SWGs time line, IG-88 has just recently escaped from the labratory that it was created at, after slaughtering its creators and has crash landed on one of the planets in the SWG universe.
The other combat droid that we see in Empire, is 4-LOM, who is partnered up with a Gand Bounty hunter, whos name I can't recall at the moment. 4-LOM has the body of a Protocol Droid andan insect-like head. 4-LOM started out life as a Protocol droid, much like 3PO, but at some point had some of its programing removed that disabled it from harming sentient life. Not as vicious as IG-88, 4-LOM had a reputaion for being a cool and methodical Bounty Hunter, which made the partnership between itself and teh Zand very profitable. Both of these reference come for a Dark Horse Comic Series and one of the paper back Bounty Hunter novels.
Now, for the real reason that combat droids are less seen in this time frame. Time in the Star Wars universe is hard to be determined, since dates are so rarely used, but by my best guess-timate it has been 10 years since a tragic accident occured on Corellia, during a Swoop match. A number of Combat Droids had a malfunction that resulted in the slaughter of hundreds of spectators and participents. This senseless act of Droid violence caused the Senate to halt the production of the line of droids in question, which I can't recall but is one that provided security on a wide scale in the Corellia System. These Droids were Secutity Droids and not Combat Droids. As to why Combat Droids are restricted, and not banned, is due to the Empires iron fist of rule. The Empire felt it best to restrict the use of Combat Droids throughout the entire Universe to certain corporations and other organizations that had the Emipre's best interests at heart. In order to own a certain type of Security or Combat Droid, the person needed to have the proper permit that was given by the Empire. The Star Wars Universe is so cast that not every world was effected by this, since many worlds were nothing more than outposts, mining coloines, or criminal organization hideouts. So, yes Combat Droids can still be found on many planets, since they have exisited for more years thanI would even wish to guess.
As to the reference of why the Bartender wouldn't allow the Droids in the cantina....This was due to the way that some outer rim planets looked at droids, and the way some people looked at them as well.I appoligize for using the reference that I am about to make, but it will help to convey the point. Many Droids are looked at in the same way that people looked at the Chinese during the time of that theTranscontiental Railroad was laided in the US. Many people were angry at the Chinese imigrants for taking jobs that laided out the tracks. Another, more recent example would be the Mexican imigrant works that are in American tha work many of the argicultural farms. In both cases people became upset because of someone else taking a job that they could do, for a lot less money. In the Star Wars Universe, the works are droids, and instead of taking jobs at a lessened rate of pay, Droids were property that worked no matter what they wanted. So, many beings were mad a Droids for taking work that Sentient life forms could do.
Many references to Combat and Security Droids are made in the SWRPG books that have been released over the years, with the approval of Lucas LTD. Don't let the term Security Droid fool you into thinking that these droids are useless. It just means that they aren't as powerful as a full-blown Combat Droid, like the Droideka.
Somthing I'd like to point out is this......If SWG followed the way that Star Wars was written, noone except for for those enlisted in the Imperial Navy would be able to carry anything larger more powerful than a CDEF Pistol. There are heavy restrictions on weapons at this time frame that are strictly enforced in Imperially controled areas. The only way to have something slightly more powerful, like a Scout Blaster, would be to have weapon Permits that cost more than the weapon, in most cases. The same would apply to the Probot and even the DZ70. Both Droids would need major permits to own and use and would more than likely be completely restircited on Corellia and Talus. The production of R2 and Protocol Units actually ceased more than 30 years before a New Hope, so the fact that DEs are able to Produce these antiquated droids is actually pretty 'far fetched' from an Engineer stand point.
Well, since the Combat Classes have a weapon Cert program installed, to handle what weapons can be used by what profession, we can think of this as covering the Weapon Permits needed to own such weapons. So, if a Droid Cert System is installed, like the one hinted at in Thunderhearts post for CHs, this will be covered as well. So the question is, which makes more sense to people what Maarek_Steele wrote, or what I just laided out.
I support you. I have to agree, and I never liked the EU anyway. It would feel much more starwarsy to me to keep combat droids out of the game, due to the time period we are in.
Maarek_Steele wrote:
I speak this as a Master Artisan leaning towards DE until they move vehicles into their own profession, but more importantly as a Star Wars fan who doesn't want to see combat droids in the post-Clone War era.
For those of you who are either MMORPG players or just trying it out, here's some background info. As is widely known, the Trade Federation created a vast droid army, and when things got out of hand, the Old Republic sent in it's clones to take back control. Skipping through a bit, there was a lot of bloodshed, a lot of chaos, and a lot of unhappiness from this war. Seeing as how it was a war faught between droids and clones, both got a rather nasty reputation across the galaxy. Whereas combat droids were acceptable before the war, they were strictly taboo afterwards. Even non-combat droids got a bad reputation. Why, just look at how the bartender in Mos Eisley treated R2 and 3PO. Are Droideekas in Star Wars? Yes. Are they in the time frame of the original trilogy? No.
Look at the original trilogy, and what roles the droids played there. 3PO translated. R2 provided an interface with mechanical systems. There are power droids. Treadwells. Etc. None were involved in combat (the probot was recon, not combat. It should stay so.)
I think the crafting stations in droids are a good way of making them useful, but I believe they should be more useful, not differently useful, if you get my drift. Make it so roleplayers can have a protocol droid translate for them. My Imperial only knows Basic, but it might be useful to have a droid around to translate in some situations. Neither of my main chars know all languages (on a side note, if someone is a Master Artisan or a composer, don't offer them languages. They've obviously had all the oppurtunity to learn them.) Also, make the crafting stations droid specific. A R2 unit should be able to help build a medicine, but not a wall. The power droids plugging into harvesters is a great idea along these lines. Make it so merchants can have a droid to keep track of records.
I know the march towards combat droids is inevitable, but here's to hoping that I may change some minds.
Except i dont like the power droids plugging into harvesters. Where would the droid get all the power from? Magic?Normally a droidsbatteries are enough to power itself until it runs out of charge, not itself+a harvester for all eternity. Now, a repair droid plugging in to a harvester to reduce maintenance fees makes sense.
Thanks, Drashk. As I've said, it's been a while since I've read the EU, so I was a little off on the source of droid resentment. Just a little (though I do believe it was the correct source for clone resentment, correct me if I'm wrong.)
While I haven't been in the DEs shoes, I have seen what you guys have gone through. I don't like what they made CHs into, and I'd be more than happy to see them nerfed into the stone age and made so that tamed creatures can't fight, this is a possibility that was removed on June 26 as the combat system evolved around pets. However, I don't see how adding incongruencies with the story is excused by the preexisting ones. If anything, we should try to work to change things the other way. The weapons permits I concept, on the other hand, I can handle.
Now as a merchant, artisan, and medic, I can tell you that, even if I don't go DE, there are many things I would buy a droid for before combat. As it is, I have a R2 unit for crafting, but no pet (I'm looking for a slice hound to hug and cuddle and call George. Well, By-Tor, actually.) My R2 is invaluable to me while I'm in the Anchorhead cantina, as I quickly run out of meds there. Also, he allows me to craft on the long walk between Mos Entha and my house, another invaluable benefit. One of the biggest hassles in being a merchant is the lack of in-game methods of records keeping. To do anything like that requires Excel. I'm dropping out of retail soon, but such a droid I know would be bought by merchants. Repair droids could either reduce the maintenance rate or reduce the decay rate after a structure runs out of maintenance, either would be helpful. The idea of power droids is that they have a large storage capacity for power, so maybe plugging a droid into the harvester isn't the answer, but I can see where something along those lines would be good. I realize the 3PO droid thing is limited, but I think that a decent number of people would drop languages if it was available. You might lose single droid sales to the combatants, but you'd have multiple sales to all the artisans.
Maarek_Steele wrote:
I speak this as a Master Artisan leaning towards DE until they move vehicles into their own profession, but more importantly as a Star Wars fan who doesn't want to see combat droids in the post-Clone War era.
For those of you who are either MMORPG players or just trying it out, here's some background info. As is widely known, the Trade Federation created a vast droid army, and when things got out of hand, the Old Republic sent in it's clones to take back control. Skipping through a bit, there was a lot of bloodshed, a lot of chaos, and a lot of unhappiness from this war. Seeing as how it was a war faught between droids and clones, both got a rather nasty reputation across the galaxy. Whereas combat droids were acceptable before the war, they were strictly taboo afterwards. Even non-combat droids got a bad reputation. Why, just look at how the bartender in Mos Eisley treated R2 and 3PO. Are Droideekas in Star Wars? Yes. Are they in the time frame of the original trilogy? No.
Look at the original trilogy, and what roles the droids played there. 3PO translated. R2 provided an interface with mechanical systems. There are power droids. Treadwells. Etc. None were involved in combat (the probot was recon, not combat. It should stay so.)
I think the crafting stations in droids are a good way of making them useful, but I believe they should be more useful, not differently useful, if you get my drift. Make it so roleplayers can have a protocol droid translate for them. My Imperial only knows Basic, but it might be useful to have a droid around to translate in some situations. Neither of my main chars know all languages (on a side note, if someone is a Master Artisan or a composer, don't offer them languages. They've obviously had all the oppurtunity to learn them.) Also, make the crafting stations droid specific. A R2 unit should be able to help build a medicine, but not a wall. The power droids plugging into harvesters is a great idea along these lines. Make it so merchants can have a droid to keep track of records.
I know the march towards combat droids is inevitable, but here's to hoping that I may change some minds.
Bullcrap. If grauls were robotic you'd be pissed, but they're not so you don't care? Thanks buddy. Thanks. Don't get me wrong; I want a buttler droid too. But I also want more than droids with dust mops. To you I say, GIMME DROIDEKA!
lorildeh wrote:
I support you. I have to agree, and I never liked the EU anyway. It would feel much more starwarsy to me to keep combat droids out of the game, due to the time period we are in.
This game is EU. There's no two ways around it.
Except i dont like the power droids plugging into harvesters. Where would the droid get all the power from? Magic?Normally a droidsbatteries are enough to power itself until it runs out of charge, not itself+a harvester for all eternity. Now, a repair droid plugging in to a harvester to reduce maintenance fees makes sense.
The EG-6 Power Droid contains an internal fusion reactor. It can provide power indefinitely. That's its sole purpose. The fact that they now need to be recharged in-game using droid batteries like every other droid is what doesn't make any sense.