Droid Engineer Archive

Developers -

As you may be aware, many in the Droid Engineering community are feeling very let down by the events since the beginning of the game.

Thunderheart has blamed the Droid Engineers for the slippage, saying that we changed our minds about what we wanted and could not agree. This is not the case. DE's in large wanted to be able to make combat droids, and be a crafting class. What Thunderheart never communicated to the community was that this meant a Droid Handler class. When the Droid Handler class was announced, over the DE Corrorspondant's strong objections that 85% of DE's would hate it, Thunderheart asked why we had changed our minds about what we wanted.

How could this have happened? In large, because there are no devs keeping an eye on the Droid Engineering boards. Had they even spent a few hours a week reading those boards, they would have known what was desired. Sintrosi very rarely got feedback from the devs when she was the corrorspondant, and it appears that Thunderheart was not really listening to what Drask has said.

So, the Droid Invasion is now pushed back, and the focus has changed. And yet, we still do not have any substantial Dev Communication. We are told that it won't be till publish 7 that we will have combat droids, and publish 8 for utility droids. But there is no dev communication yet!

The only red name post since Thunderheart said that we would be getting utility droids was a rather angry post by JustG, defending the dev's communication with players, and telling us that "things change". He said that the producers of the game came in late, and said that the Imperial Crackdown had priority.

Why weren't the DE's told this earlier, instead of being left to think that the Droid Invasion was still on?

And the problem appears to continue. Why do I say this? Well, because there is still no communication that I can see.

One thing that I found very disturbing was the following quote made today at

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_testing&message.id=3942#M3942

by Thunderheart:

"In late November 2003, the developer who was at the heart of GCW development came to me and said, “we’re doing the Imperial Crackdown and its going to be a great time to make some GCW changes."

However, this is also the time frame in which JustG made his now infamous quote:

"I can tell you this. Droids (and DE's) will be the MAIN focus of the January publish."

To me, this implies that you did indeed know that your priorities had changed, and that you months ago that Droids would not be the focus of the January patch.

In the above cited post, he goes on to say:

"Towards the end of December, I spoke with many players through many channels and we even teleconferenced in a few people in our company on different teams who play the game (Many thanks to Jester, the GCW Correspondent and his hard work and involvement)."

So, I ask - why aren't Droid Engineers seeing this level of communication?

So, far we have been told that every idea that we have is either unballancing or not feasable. Yet WHY many of the ideas are unballancing is not explained in the case of utility modules is not explained. When the reason for a Droid Handler class was explained, the DE community responded with a multitude of possible compromises. For example, limiting the droids to CL25 or so, and allowing for certification at mastery of other professions. Or having a mini-profession, with less bubbles and skill point expenditure, and limiting the droid combat abilities. These ideas were rejected out of hand with no explanation.

As far as the utility droids go, Thunderheart stated that "utility droids will not be able to enhance player skills and abilities". If this is the case, we need active conversation NOW on what will comprise a utility droid. Right now, no one understands this limitation - chef food, skill tapes, powerups, etc, all add skill and ability.

So, right now, there is no indication that things are moving forward. Many DE's who have held out since the launch of the game are leaving.

Devs, we need activive, open communication, and we need it now. We need openness on your part, and candor. We need to listen to us - this is one area where we probably really do know about the dynamics of droids and what they could do in the game than you do. We are not power hungry - the utility droids we want to craft won't make us uber - they will make other classes more fun to play.

And finally, once you have comitted (and you have committed), you need to follow through.

/bump for being a great post.

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Sketh wrote:

by Thunderheart:

"In late November 2003, the developer who was at the heart of GCW development came to me and said, “we’re doing the Imperial Crackdown and its going to be a great time to make some GCW changes."

However, this is also the time frame in which JustG made his now infamous quote:

"I can tell you this. Droids (and DE's) will be the MAIN focus of the January publish."

To me, this implies that you did indeed know that your priorities had changed, and that you months ago that Droids would not be the focus of the January patch.

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I had this exact same thought when I read Thunderheart's post.... Very curious isn't it??

But what do you really want?

Great post, well written. Too bad it will never be seen by the intended recipients. /sigh

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duncje wrote:

But what do you really want?

Great post, well written. Too bad it will never be seen by the intended recipients. /sigh

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I want a lot of things I want utility droids for many classes, I want mid level combat droids with certs that don't take a class, but most of all, right now, I want candid dev communication with this community.

This is one of the more mature - if bitter - communities here on the forums. We don't ask for uberness - we ask for things that will make the game better in terms of immersion, and in having fun for others. Chefs are kind of the same - they don't look for food that will make them uber, they want to make useful things for other classes.

I am still dissapointed that Droids weren't taken into account on the ballance equation, while BE, chef, WS, AS, etc items were. I still don't think it is to late to fix this.

Will this be read? Well, I'll probably cross post it. Maybe Drask can do so on the corrorspondant forums.

This community is one of the most creative - all you have to do is read the module threads, or any of the focus threads that peeps have set up. I, as a dev in a different venue in RL, know the complexities that can occur in code. However, I also know that if you want to ship good product, you have to make that product good.

I know what I'm about to say is unpopular, but as soon as they started talking about the upcoming themed publishes, they said that first would be the "Imperial Crackdown" and then the "Droid Invasion." Now they may have never come right out and said, "The droid stuff isn't happening in January like we thought..." but I thought it was kind of implied.

I'm just curious, and this is more of a poll than an attack on anyone, but for the last month everyone has known that this coming publish would be the Imperial Crackdown; how many of you thought the Imperial Crackdown and Droid Invasion were happening at the same time? I know a lot of us (myself included, for a time) really hung on to that comment from JustG that we'd be the main focus in January, but even with all the Crack(*cough*)down stuff going on, how many really honestly thought we were still the focus?

Again, I'm not trying to be hostile, and I'm not trying to act as if it was obvious the whole time, I'm just trying to get an idea of where exactly the communciation breakdown happened.

And I know I'm going to get one-starred for this, but if you do, please have the courtesy to respond and state your opinion.

Message Edited by OrionsByte on 02-10-2004 03:30 PM

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Sketh wrote:

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duncje wrote:

But what do you really want?

Great post, well written. Too bad it will never be seen by the intended recipients. /sigh

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I want a lot of things I want utility droids for many classes, I want mid level combat droids with certs that don't take a class, but most of all, right now, I want candid dev communication with this community.

This is one of the more mature - if bitter - communities here on the forums. We don't ask for uberness - we ask for things that will make the game better in terms of immersion, and in having fun for others. Chefs are kind of the same - they don't look for food that will make them uber, they want to make useful things for other classes.

I am still dissapointed that Droids weren't taken into account on the ballance equation, while BE, chef, WS, AS, etc items were. I still don't think it is to late to fix this.

Will this be read? Well, I'll probably cross post it. Maybe Drask can do so on the corrorspondant forums.

This community is one of the most creative - all you have to do is read the module threads, or any of the focus threads that peeps have set up. I, as a dev in a different venue in RL, know the complexities that can occur in code. However, I also know that if you want to ship good product, you have to make that product good.

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I really wan't expecting an answer It was my bitter attempt at humor, trying to predict the dev response to your thread.

But, your answer pretty much sums up DE. Bitter, jaded, andyearning for a more immersive STAR WARS environment.

Me, I want a reason to make any droid other than an all-in-wonder R3 unit or a Probot. What's the use in making any droid other than these, save personal preference for droid looks?

OrionsByte-

They obviously are capable of doing two things at once. They did the Chef revamp at the same time as the Imperial Crackdown, Chefs were broken, but not as useless as DE is. They could have very easily pushed the Chef stuff back, to give the DE's some of the fixes and stuff we were promised.

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duncje wrote:

OrionsByte-

They obviously are capable of doing two things at once. They did the Chef revamp at the same time as the Imperial Crackdown, Chefs were broken, but not as useless as DE is. They could have very easily pushed the Chef stuff back, to give the DE's some of the fixes and stuff we were promised.

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Yes, I agree, but the Chefs were never going to be the focus of a themed publish, either. If the chef stuff was all packaged in a "Food Invasion" theme, it would have been a different story for them, too. My interpretation of events was that DE was going to get it's own publish. This publish (#6) was for the crackdown, so that meant this wasn't it. I think they could have gone a lot farther to make this a clear point, obviously, but...

So publish 6, titled "Imperial Crackdown," included the chef revamp, but did not include the "Droid Invasion" because that's the title of the next publish. See what I'm saying?

(BTW Sketh, I still 5-starred your post; nicely written)

Message Edited by OrionsByte on 02-10-2004 03:44 PM

Hey, who knows...maybe we'll get lucky, and somehow, out of all this, the Devs will either start paying attention to these boards (not just ours, but all of them), or actually start piping in more than once every three lunar cycles.

A girl can dream....

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OrionsByte wrote:

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duncje wrote:

OrionsByte-

They obviously are capable of doing two things at once. They did the Chef revamp at the same time as the Imperial Crackdown, Chefs were broken, but not as useless as DE is. They could have very easily pushed the Chef stuff back, to give the DE's some of the fixes and stuff we were promised.

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Yes, I agree, but the Chefs were never going to be the focus of a themed publish, either. If the chef stuff was all packaged in a "Food Invasion" theme, it would have been a different story for them, too. My interpretation of events was that DE was going to get it's own publish. This publish (#6) was for the crackdown, so that meant this wasn't it. I think they could have gone a lot farther to make this a clear point, obviously, but...

So publish 6, titled "Imperial Crackdown," included the chef revamp, but did not include the "Droid Invasion" because that's the title of the next publish. See what I'm saying?

(BTW Sketh, I still 5-starred your post; nicely written)

Message Edited by OrionsByte on 02-10-2004 03:44 PM

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My point is, they went out of the way to promise DE the so-called "Droid Invasion" (not supposed to be a single publish, but fixes and additions rolled out over at least 2 publishes, January and February, according to JustG), never bothering to go back on that statement. All the while, in the background they were working on a complete rework of the Chef profession, when that time could have at least been spent on working towards something they promised...