Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: 'Having Trouble with your droid?' 'No, no problem...Why?'
Over the last few days, I've read a number of threads and am glad to see the large number of Droid Engineers, and droid owners, that have decided to take an active role in the shaping of the future of the Droid Engineering profession. As it stands, there is a growing separation between DEs, and non-DEs alike, that want a DE specific combat droid and those that want to stay a pure crafting profession. Many have noted that Thunderheart has made vague mention to the inclusion of a Droid cert system depending on the different classes chosen. I've been holding back many of my thoughts, so that I could compose a thread that I feel could partially bridge the gap in the growing rift, and at the same time list possible ideas for the DEV team to think about. Bare with me, since I am going to try and list a number of issues that I feel need to addressed and will be doing so in a manner to help out non-DEs understand some of the DE known issues. I will not touch on most of the topics on Gorantoth's Centralized Droid Issue list, since it would swell this post to a larger size than it is already going to become.
I'll start out with some of the current problems with the class, that include modules and the different droid frames and also includes a few 'new' ideas.
1) Currently, as many of us know, an MSE droid can hold most of the best modules that our profession can create. I don't know if this was supposed to be how the DEVs originally intended it to happen, or if this was a major oversight on their part, when the DE profession was designed. In either case, the level of a module in a droid should be limited by the droid type in question. This should be applied to all leveled droid modules, including armor modules The following is a chart, of what I believe to be a fair and justified change, that I hope could be easily implemented.
Droid Engineer Level Module Level
Novice DE 1 - 2
Blueprints I 1 - 3
Blueprints II 1 - 4
Blueprints III 1 - 5
Blueprints IV 1 - 6
Master DE 1 - 6
2) The next step, would be to completely remove the ability to stack modules, or modify it so that it is less beneficial to do so. Many non-Master DEs, and a few Master DEs, will argue this point, but I'll explain why this needs to be changed. As a Master DE, I can simulate the effects of a Level 6 Module by using two lesser level modules. Besides possibly Architects (which I believe will change soon, with the next big publish), what other crafting profession can use 'lower' level products to produce Master quality goods? I have been able to craft the same products, with the exception of two additional droid types (Advanced R3 Unit and Advanced Protocol Droid) , that I now offer, as a Master DE, since I was a 4/3/0/4 Novice Droid Engineer. A lot of this is due to the current caps on droid HAM and combat damage, but that is for another section in this post. By removing the ability to stack modules it becomes more beneficial to become a Master DE.
An alternate approach to the removal of module stacking would be to change the rules on how stacking works. Instead of using two Level 4 Modules to produce the results of Level 6 Module, how about changing the code to where a Level 5 Module and a Level 4 Module combine to produce a Level 6 Module's result. (Or even needing two Level 5 Modules.) Having to use a module that required many of the same resources and components that a Master quality Level 6 Module requires would greatly improve the benefits of becoming a Master Droid Engineer.
(As a side note, if a change like this would take effect right now, I would no longer be able to produce an item storage module that could hold 10 items, since the Lidium Extrusive Ore used in the production in Level 6 Storage Modules hasn't been seen in almost 2 months. I just wanted to state this, since the removal of stacking could even affect Master Droid Engineers as well as Novice Engineers.)
3) This idea would be a bit trickier, in regards to the changing of code, but the General Droid Module Socket should be completely removed and the number of allowed modules slots should be changed, which I will discuss my ideas in the next section. (To shorten the name for the General Droid Module Socket, let us call it a Cluster Module, as I've seen it referred to before. For those that don't know, a Cluster Module is a module that can be built with three other modules inside of it.) Currently, Cluster Modules are 'broken' in three ways.
a) First, a cluster module can be placed inside another cluster module, during a crafting session, which means that you can have an finite number of cluster modules that are imbedded in each other, depending on how much patience a DE has.
(I.E. Using the method of stacking mentioned above. I place two Level 4 Storage Modules and any one crafting station in to Cluster Module 1. I then build Cluster Module 2 which contains two Level 4 Data Storage Modules and Cluster Module 1. Next, I build Cluster Module 3 which contains two Level 4 Medical Modules and Cluster Module 2. What I end up with is one module that has 1 crafting station, the equivalent of a level 6 Item Storage Module, a level 6 Data Storage Module, and a level 6 Medical Module. I am extremely certain that this in not meant to be how the Cluster Modules where intended to be used, just like Data Modules were never intended to store missions or extra creatures, of which both issues were quickly fixed.)
b) Second, Cluster Modules have an effect on the end quality of a droids production, even though with the current HAM/Damage cap it is not easily perceived. Each and every module has a Mechanism Quality rating when it is built. This rating dictates how well the droid turns out in the final built of a droid. The same applies to a Cluster Module; however when a Cluster Module is built using high end resources and other the installed modules are built with high end resources, the end Mechanism Quality comes out considerably higher than any other module's rating. If the HAM and damage cap, which was placed when Probots were nerfed in order to tone them down, were to be removed, a DE that used the stacked Cluster Modules, like in the above example, could produce droids that would be far superior to any other DE's creation, that did not use this Exploit. (By definition, stacking Cluster Modules is an Exploit since it was not meant to be used in this manner, similar to how data modules were not meant to hold extra pets.).
(I.E. In the above mentioned example, if all of the normal modules had a Mechanism Quality of 5 and each Cluster Module was experimented with Great Successes, Cluster Module 3 could, theoretically, end up with a rating of 30-50, when experimentation is increased to 10 blocks for Master DEs.)
c) Lastly, Cluster Modules can be used in any module slot on any droid. A few will argue that this is how it was intended to be, since it hasn't been fixed, but from a non-biased and logical stand point, a Cluster Module was only intended to be placed in Cluster Module slot on the droids that are equipped such a slot. Even if Cluster Module stacking was removed, a DE could still place a Cluster Module with three different Level 6 Modules on an Advanced Probot and a crafting station; effectively make all other droid types pointless.
4) Many DEs, and droid owners, have expressed a need to make Droids more useful by adding more modules. I, personally, do not like the module concept, since it detracts from giving each droid a specific function, but the movies, and more so in extended universe content, show us that any droid can be equipped with functions that can be used outside of there originally intended use. I will list a few module concepts for consideration; some of which have been posted on other threads and a few of which are 'original' ideas.
a) Crafting Station Package - Currently, droid crafting stations do not have a function rating, like their Architect built counter parts. Again, either this was an oversight by the DEV team, or they were not intended to have a function rating. I will list a two part concept. The first part is to give all basic droid crafting stations a function rating that is on scale with a Private crafting station that has been made with out the optional parts installed; between -15 and +15. The second part of the proposal is for a new module type that would use the normal Droid crafting station and other optional parts, in order to prove the function rating and give it other options as well. I'll call this new module a Crafting station module cluster. This module could only be installed in specific droid types, which I will expand upon in a separate area. This module could be added to the Droid Refinement Tree, since it could be considered a non-essential improvement. The Station cluster would have 1 required Droid Crafting station (any ) and 4 optional parts that can be installed, which can raise the overall function rating on the Droid installed crafting station, similar to a Private Crafting station. The optional parts that would be needed are 2 similar Micro Sensor Suites, 2 similar Control Units, 1 Droid Item Storage Module (any level), and 1 Droid Data Storage Module (any level). The Crafting station module cluster would gain an increased rating over the basic droid crafting station module and could integrate the two storage modules installed. The integrated Item Storage Module would function similar to the input hopper function on a Private Crafting station, but on a smaller scale, due to the storage capacity is limited by the level of the Item Storage Module that is installed. Where this idea diverges from the Private Crafting station is the inclusion of the Data Storage Module. When ever a factory schematic is created, instead of the schematic going directly to the droid owner's datapad, the schematic would be stored in the Droids Data Storage Module instead. This would increase the usefulness of the Data Storage module a little bit. Both of the Storage modules could be still accessed in the normal manner from the droid's radial, but the droid storage could also be accessed through the appropriate crafting tool, just like the hopper on a Private station, with its optional parts installed. The Data and Item storage installed in a Crafting Station Package counts towards the maximum storage space allowed. (I.E If Level 6 Item and Data Storage was used then the droid would have the maximum Item and Data Storage possible.)
b) Entertainment Module - This module would function similar to the Medical version, but instead would affect an Entertainer's ability to heal Mind wounds in and out of the Cantina. This module could be added to the Droid Production Tree in the same level progression as the Medical module, with a 10% bonus being added to the cantina's effectiveness when a Droid with a Level 6 module is used.
c) Slicing Module - This module is a bit trickier to implement than the previous 2 modules, but I will include this one as well, for a concept idea. A droid with this module would assist a Smuggler when ever slicing weapons or armor, by granting the user a percentage based chance to picking the outcome of the slice. This module would be level based, with a Novice DE starting with a Level 1 Slicing Module and could be part of the Droid Construction Techniques Tree; following the same level progression as other level based modules. At level 1, the module would grant a Smuggler a 0 -10% chance of successfully choosing the out come of any slice made on weapons and armor. The percentage at each level is based on the quality of the module produced. A Level 6 Slicing module would allow for a 0 - 60% of success at choosing the outcome of a slice.
d) Droid Armor Modules (Revamped)) - The concept behind this idea is to include experimentation values on all droid armor, similar to the way Armorsmith armor is experimented on. Currently Droid Armor Modules have the same stats depending on the module's level. Allowing experimentation values to effect all Droid Armor Modules will reduce the 'cookie cutter droids' and allow for improvements to each droids armor rating. Level 5 and 6 Droid Armor Modules could even be made with Composite Armor Segments that contain Krayt Tissues and actually improve the armor rating even higher. To balance out this 'improved' droid armor, I would suggest placing a maximum armor rating on certain droids, such as the Probot, and increasing the resources needed to produce Level 3,4,5, & 6 Droid Armor Modules. Such changes would help to balance out a few different issues, if this concept was used.
5) Since it would seem that modular droid function is here to stay, the different droid types need to be updated accordingly so that different droid types can fill different roles, depending on what types of modules can be installed. I believe that certain modules should be limited to certain droid types, as well as having a limit on what level modules can be installed, as per listed above. Also included is a listed of special functions that a few droids gain, whether due to modules installed, or inherent function. The following is a concept list of proposed changes to each of the current droids, based on the information listed so far.
MSE - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1 & 2 Medical, Data Storage, and Item Storage.
Advanced MSE - 2 Service Modules, 1 Armor Module (Light 40%).
Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, and/or Item Storage.
R5 - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage,
Slicing, Entertainment, Repair or basic Crafting station.
DZ70 - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Medical, Data storage, or Item
Storage. *Ranged combat attack.
Treadwell - 1 Service Module. Limited to level 1, 2, & 3 Data storage, Item Storage,
Repair or basic Crafting station.
Advanced R5 - 2 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Light 50%) Limited to level
1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair,
or basic Crafting station.
Advanced DZ70 - 2 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%)
Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, or Item Storage.
*Ranged combat attack
Advanced Treadwell - 2 Service Module. 1Armor Module (Light 50%)
Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Data storage, Item Storage, Repair, or basic
Crafting station. * The repair module in this droid not only repairs wounds to
Health and Action, but it also repairs all normal damage as well. (White Bar)
R4 - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage
Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, or basic Crafting station.
Power Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, & 4 Data storage, Item Storage,
or basic Crafting station. *Repairs only Mind wounds, while recharging another
droid. Never needs to be recharged.
Advanced R4 - 3 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to level
1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair,
basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
Advanced Power Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to
level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Data storage, Item Storage, and/or basic Crafting station
*Repairs only Mind wounds, while recharging another droid.
Never needs to be recharged.
Probot - 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) *Ranged combat attack.
R2 - 3 Service Modules. 1Armor Module (Medium 25%) Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5
Medical, Data storage, Item Storage Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting
station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
Surgical Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Data storage, Item
Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, and/or Repair Modules.
*Functions as if a level 5 Medical Module was installed. Proximity to the
Surgical Droid (10 meters or less) will heal 2 wounds per 1 minute of Health
or Action, or their sub-stats.
LE Repair Droid - 2 Service Modules. Limited to level 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 Data storage, Item
Storage, Entertainment, Medical, and/or basic Crafting station. *Functions as if
a Repair Module was installed. Repairs all Health and Action wounds on any
Droid targeted, as well as any normal damage (white bar).
Advanced Surgical Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Any level
Data storage, Item Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, Crafting Station
Package, and/or Repair Modules. *Functions as if a Level 6 Medical Module
was installed. Proximity to the Advanced Surgical Droid (10 meters or less)
will heal 3 wounds per 1 minute of Health or Action, or their sub-stats.
Advanced LE Repair Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 25%) Any
level Data storage, Item Storage, Entertainment, basic Crafting station, Crafting
Station Package, and/or Medical Module. *Functions as if a Repair Module was
installed. Repairs all Health and Action wounds on any Droid targeted, as
well as any normal damage (white bar). Repairs Droid Vitality, as if a Pet
Vitality pack was used.
Advanced Probot - 1 Service Module. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Medical,
Item Storage, or Data Storage Module.
Advanced R2 - 4 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any Medical, Data
storage, Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station, and/or
Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a 5% bonus when installed on
an Advanced R2 Unit.
Protocol Droid - 2 Service Modules. Any Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Repair,
basic Crafting station, Entertainment and/or Crafting Station Package.
Binary Load Lifter - 4 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Data
storage, Item Storage, basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station Package.
*A BLL can have up to 3 Item Storage Modules installed, with each module
adding to the total storage space, with a maximum of 25 spaces.
R3 - 5 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any Medical, Data storage,
Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station, and/or
Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a +5% bonus when installed
on an R3 Unit
Advanced Protocol Droid - 3 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 40%) Any
Medical, Data storage, Item Storage, Repair, basic Crafting station, Entertainment
and/or Crafting Station Package. *Entertainment Modules gain a +10 bonus
when installed in an Advanced Protocol Droid.
Advanced Binary Load Lifter - 6 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 65%)
Any Data storage, Item Storage, basic Crafting station, and/or Crafting Station
Package. *An Advanced BLL can have up to 4 Item Storage Modules
installed, with each module adding to the total storage space, with a
maximum of 35 spaces.
Advanced R3 - 6 Service Modules. 1 Armor Module (Medium 50%) Any Medical,
Data storage, Item Storage, Slicing, Entertainment, Repair, basic Crafting station,
and/or Crafting Station Package. *Slicing Modules gain a +10% bonus when
installed on an Advanced R3 Unit
I like stacking modules. I think what you should be asking for is to either raise the cap or to have master DE's make something that actually matters. Stacking modules has been in it since the beginning, andit has always been, by every indication, the intent of the developers. Socket Clusters, or cluster modules, are the exception, since most agree that they have a specific slot they should get inserted to. They should not go into any service module harness. I have also never used that exploit for that very reason.
Why are we capped so low? That is my question. Rather than being content on a maximum of 10 item storage, or medium 40% armor, we should be wondering why extremely rare resources and long, hard grinds lead to such a low ceiling. I see that you have in your plan here armor modules over that current cap, so you have at least recognized that it would be more enjoyable with more flexibility there. Nothing else I have ever crafted besides artisan clothing has ever been so arbitrarily capped.
Two level 6 modules should be the reason to master. Or specific benefits to a level 6 over stacking two level 4's. How about level 6 is heavy armor? How about stacking two modules will never skip up to another armor level, but always adds to the resists?
I feel like droids that haven't been created yet have already been nerfed after reading some of your points here. I loved some of your other points, though. Just be careful that you don't get the MMORGP complex that prevents your ambitions from ever reaching very far at all.
CapnSteve and SinjenRandall, you both have valid points on not agreeing with the removal of stacking however, as a crafter that has dabbled a bit in other crafting professions, it is important to note that besides maybe Architects, Droid Engineering is the only profession where being a Master doesn't even matter in the crafting process for suppling the best goods. As I stated, I could provide almost the exact same products at 4/3/0/4 as I can at Master. Yes, the caps have a lot to do with this, but from a development stand point, removing stacking is more in line with creating a better profession than changing the maximum benefits.
I though about a change in the module cap, but when you look at the balance issues and potential problems related to the Data base, increasing the cap is not feasible. In regards to Item storage; an increase in the maximum storage on an Item Storage module would have a large impact on server performance, by increasing the number of items that anyone could store. An increase of 2 to 5 more storage on a Level 6 Module may not sound like much, but if you factor in the number of people that own 5 droids that are currently filled with 10 items, such as my character is, the number of new items that the DB would have to track increase dramatically bysuch a 'simple' change. There is a reason that the DEV teamplaced the cap as low as they did. If you will notice, quite a few DB stability issues have pop in regards to item tracking. Increasing the total number of allowable items is not in the DEVs best interest.
In regards to increasing the Medical rating on the medical module; a +10 or +20 point increase would actually have a larger effect than most think about. The way it stands, Healers gain extra XP when healing around their droid that has a medical rating of 110. They are in effect gaining +10% more experience. By increasing the medical module cap +10 or +20 you are giving Medics the potential to gain +10 or +20% more experience, which would lead to an increased rate of character development and would in turn lead to more players having no where to progress their Medical skills to.
As for Armor Stacking; The examples of every droid that I gave with armor, if maxed at the given rate, would potentially be able to take 3-5 times more damage than a CH creature of the same HAM. Armor rating has a huge effect on the amount of damage that anything can take in this game. Any droid with Heavy armor that is used in PvE would be able to 'own' most of what it goes up against, with the exception of those that have armor piercing. Which is why I placed the base and maximum HAM on all of the droids I mentioned so low, relative to what I have seen quite a few people asking for.
To sum it up, I can see both of your points on not wanting to remove the stacking, but from a balance stand point, it really needs to be done in order to make the grind to Master worth while, like it is in such professions as Armorsmith and Weaponsmith.
SinjenRandall wrote:
I feel like droids that haven't been created yet have already been nerfed after reading some of your points here.
Just be careful that you don't get the MMORGP complex that prevents your ambitions from ever reaching very far at all.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by these two comments. Would you mind elaborating on them? I'm just curious as to what you are refering to.
Since you asked, Iwill elaborate a bit. I agree with balance, in a general sense, and think that a database issue is a tough problem, etc. But if the database won't handle it, that doesn't mean we have to be content with substandard responses. What I think the "MMORGP" complex is, in essence, is thelack of--ambition-- caused by the word "can't". Or the other word, "balance", which is not only relative, but subjective.
Now, I think you are right that the item storage issue affects the database adversely. Does that mean that 10 item storage is a sufficient amount of item storage to warrant a master DE created item? I don't think that it is. What you are saying is that since the database can't do something, it means that we are not only stuck with that limitation, butonly masters can create that limited item. That is what I mean by low ambitions. If players can't have that, I say givethem something else that won't break the database. Or figure out how to make the database better.
As far as XP goes, you can say the same thing about modules that are 65% - 85% effective. They are giving less XP than you would get in a hospital, yes? And everyone but a master DE would create them.Why is it okay to get less than the requisite experience for a heal, but not more? This is what I mean by MMORGP complex.
With joy, I got into beta, worked my way up to Droid Engineer, and got my character wiped a good 3/4 of the way into the mouse droid grind (which had far lower XP requirements, by the way). Well, it was nothing like I thought it would be, but I figured they weren't finished with the profession. Now, four months into the game, when people are used to droids only being medical assistants andportable crafting stations, there is an expectation that if we ever are to create droids that are similar in any way to what they were in the movies, it will break the precious game balance. Heck, I am still waiting for them to finish the profession, and people on the other forums are already screaming about how we are getting the mostest attention ever whaaa nerf!
It is far more important to keep players from progressing than it is to make it a truly enjoyable experience to play. This is my first MMORGP. And it will be my last, I am sure. This big tourist attraction can only stay novel so long before people stop wondering alltogether when they can have a droid like R2-D2.
SinjenRandall,
I agree with you that 10 item storage is low and that the database issue shouldn't be the determining factor, however the database is the determining factor at this time and until a major increase in technology happens, we are 'stuck' with 10 at master.
As to what you stated about medical modules; One of the main reasons that someone Masters a profession is to gain the ablity to craft something better than you can at Novice of the same profession. Medics do not have to buy a medical droid in order to succeed at their profession. Medics buy a medical droid so that they can have the freedom of being able to leave the Med Center. Camps offer the same rates to healing, in realitive comparison to each level medical module.I used the example of the increased XP rates to show what kind of effect it would have by rasing the bar.
What I really should have pointed out to everyone is that DE. as crafters, should be compared to Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths in our ability to craft items. All three professions have are combat support professions, since all three classes produce an item that can be used in combat. When someone goes to buy a weapon or armor and they have the money to spend, they will buy only the very best that they can find. Almost every single time, this item will be made by a master of that profession, because only a master is able to provide the very best item.With Droid Engineers, anyone that has Expert Droid Production can produce the very best medical rating that a DE can offer. Do you see this happening in the Armorsmith or Weaponsmith proefessions?
Stacking makes it so that all the DE dabblers are able to hold on to their skill points until the DE profession is fixed and still be able to make Master Quaility products. Yes, stacking has been around for a very long time, but so has the Advanced BLL that has no Service Module Slots.
Devs (TH), take note:
THAT is a plan (or at least what one should look like).
I think I pretty much agree with your vision. I like the layout of your updated current droid versions/requirements, the implementation of the new battle droids and the application of the cert system.
I think that TH needs to see this to give it some validity and 'eyes'.
Good form!!
/bow
Respectfully
I should have read this yesterday... apologies.
Beautiful. I love it.
Curious tho'... why limit the ADV Droideka's chassis to MDE? I think it'd be a beautiful RP touch to have a chassis sitting in the back room as my "special project" as I was working my way up. 
Thanks TheRealTK421, you hit on one of the main reasons that I put this concept plan together. I wanted to post something that was a bit more concret and actually addressed a few things in a manner thatwouldn't lead toany potential mis-interprutation as to what I was trying to say.
Three key issues that really need attention are a) Module Level vs. Droid type limitation. b)Module stacking, and c) General Droid Module Socket. Many will disagree, but those three issues are what have caused a number of Master Droid Engineers to lose faith in our profession and quit. Most of what I proposed in this concept could be added in stages, much like how this month's 'Monthly Update' is taking place.
Grimjakk, to tell you the truth, I actually forgot the reasoning behind why I added the chassis at Master instead of Blueprints IV, which gives a great example for the next point that I wanted to make. I hope that many will note that I used the term concept idea. I wanted to get the point across that this is only an idea. Ideas do not have form and can be shaped, depending on what direction the idea needs to take. I believe that this was what 'The Plan' posted by Sintrosi was supposed to do accomplish, but there just wasn't enought structure included or enough solid content. With that said, let me put forth another idea in regards to the Advanced Droideka.
Instead of making the Advanced Droideka available to anyone that becomes a Master Droid Engineer, how about using the example that Domacett posted earlier today; making it so that you have to be a Master Artisan and a Master Droid Engineer in order to use the droid. (For those that say the Skill point justifcation is needed) Or maybe it could be a combonation of Master Droid Engineer and Novice (enter Elite Combat Profession of Master begining Combat Profession) (This should appease most of the non-combat camp). Adding an A+B=C concept of being able to unlock the use of the Advanced Droideka would be considered a real compromise to both sides of the combat/non-combat camp. Both posts thatI have seen in the last few days the included the word compromise in the title actually didn't propose a compromise at all. Making it so that only MDEs that have x skill can call on the Advanced Droideka should staisfy those that want to keep DEs a crafting class and those that want to add a little flavor to, what is currently, a very tasteless mush.