Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: We need to Fix the DE profession
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nills
Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
#1
Guys this is ubserd. The economy is completly ruined for DE's mainly because newbies join the prof and undercut the prices so much that we are forced to lower our prices. People do not realize that our quality is better and we have to put a stop to this. The only way i forsee this happening is for everyoen to agree not to go lower then a certain price on each droid.
I do not know if this is a problem for any other servers but its a huge problem for kettemoore. Some kid bought a fully decked out combat droid for 5k when i told him it was 100k he said he could get 20 at a diff vendor. This has to stop or it will get worse in JTL when everyone will need a droid for their ships.
-nills
psikobunny
Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:24 am
#2
Sorry, don't think you're going to see much in favor of price controls here. When it came up at our Bloodfin DEA meeting the consensus was pretty much we all charge what we charge for our own reasons. DE more than any other prof has to be a teacher profession, explain to your customers that not only is your product superior, you support it. I thrown in freebies to people I deal with in person.
I don't feel pressure to undercut anyone, and I don't feel pressure from being undercut. I'm not about to lock myself into a price agreement, since I may decide a certain product isn't moving fast enough to suit me, and I want to get it off my vendor.
Three words: Free Market Economy. That kid that undercuts you by 25% today, won't be around in 3 weeks, and wouldn't honor any sort of price minimums anyway, why cry over it?
nills
Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:56 pm
#3
oh dam your right i should stop crying cause i was crying till i read this thanks so much man now i can finaly stop crying wheph thank god u siad something dam.. thanks again.
Doc16743
Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:58 pm
#4
Not trying to be a smart-ass here, but I have to ask the obvious question. Why are your prices higher? I've been a DE on Flurry for months, and generally sell for less than much of my competition. My quality is as high or higher than most any DE I've encountered.
There is only one reason I sell for less. I harvest 99% of my own resources. If I had to buy large quantities of metals or chems, my prices would be much higher. Once in a great while I'll need to buy a small quantity of resource to complete a special order, but that is rare. I was lucky enough to start as a resource seller before DE's even existed. I had a good stock of resources when I decided to try DE.
I'm also a Master Merchant. I have vendors on two planets and 4 cities. That makes me lucky enough to not have to pay someone to carry my product on their vendors.
One last thought. I welcome competition. I have a protoge working with me right now, learning the ropes. In a short time he'll be a Master DE, and in direct competition with me. It's like having 2 or 3 shoe stores in the mall, right next to each other! Competition is great for the economy! Makes each of us try that much harder, and keeps the customers coming back!
Fishbreath
Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:43 pm
#5
DE is a profession one gets into because they like making droids, not to make money. Reminds me of those who join the military and make a career out of it...because they love it, gives them a sense of pride, but not to get rich. I was lucky that when I joined Shadowfire, there were 2-3 well established DEs who had been around since launch I think.....when it was time for me to start stocking vendors, I went to theres, saw what they charged...and took an average of their prices, and there I sit. There will always be those that chgarge too much....but they will eventually lower their prices due to lack of sales...and those that dont charge enough, but they'll get tired of not getting paid for the time.....then will eventually charge more....and then, It all averages out.
Wirebiter
Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:00 pm
#6
a little more info on this:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Kettemoor&message.id=276699
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Kettemoor&message.id=276699
Nell2ThaIzzay
Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:33 am
#7
I guess I'd be considered an undercutter. I sell my droids on the bazaar for 3k. I've seen the same exact droids on the bazaar for 4 and 5k. Same ratings and everything, just a different chasis.
Here's my reason for why I sell lower than what other people sell for:
My droid engineering skills are not that high. I don't know the exact levels I am in each tree, but basically, I can make up to an R4 unit (not an R4 advanced, just a normal), with level 3 storage, data, med modules, and level 1 structure and armor modules. I have *NOTHING* to offer that another Droid Engineer can't. So what makes my product stand out? What makes people want to buy their droids from me instead of from some Master DE? The only thing that I have to offer is a lower price. So to make sure people buy from me, I will offer that lower price.
That, and the fact that as far as credits go, I just want enough to be able to pay off my harvestors and my house. Maybe have a little bit extra left over if I wanna buy some furniture or clothes or something.
I even went as far today as to give somebody a free R4 entertainer droid. He asked me if he could buy a couple droids off of me, and then later said he couldn't get the money, because he thought a friend of his that was gonna supply him the money had left the game for good. So I decided I wasn't gonna give him his entire order for free (he wanted an entertainer droid and a medical droid), but I'd be nice and give him 1 free droid. So I hooked him up. Gave him some batteries too. And I remembered his name, because he was having problems with his droid, so when I get on tonight, I'm gonna send him an e-mail telling him what I found out about the problems with his droid, and replace the one he can't use with one he can, for free.
I guess my take on this is, it's a game. Yes... there is a point to this game, and the point of an artisan class is to make money and be as profitable as possible. But at the same time, it's still a game. If you cancel your account today and don't have your character anymore, the undercutting going on doesn't matter anymore. So if I sell my droids for a bit cheaper to give myself a chance to get some business, then so be it. You'll have to do what you can to compete with me. And most likely, it's going to be in the quality of your droids. Because as someone came to the realization of from reading my posts, I'm not the poster boy for a great Droid Engineer. I do it for fun for my own personal enjoyment, and the business aspect of it on the side. So I'll offer the low prices, and you can offer the higher quality. You'll get your business.
Before I go tho, I would like to say that I understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree with it, and I won't be changing my prices to accomidate someone else.
Zorkk
Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:06 am
#8
Doc16743 wrote:
Not trying to be a smart-ass here, but I have to ask the obvious question. Why are your prices higher? I've been a DE on Flurry for months, and generally sell for less than much of my competition. My quality is as high or higher than most any DE I've encountered.
There is only one reason I sell for less. I harvest 99% of my own resources. If I had to buy large quantities of metals or chems, my prices would be much higher. Once in a great while I'll need to buy a small quantity of resource to complete a special order, but that is rare. I was lucky enough to start as a resource seller before DE's even existed. I had a good stock of resources when I decided to try DE.
I'm also a Master Merchant. I have vendors on two planets and 4 cities. That makes me lucky enough to not have to pay someone to carry my product on their vendors.
One last thought. I welcome competition. I have a protoge working with me right now, learning the ropes. In a short time he'll be a Master DE, and in direct competition with me. It's like having 2 or 3 shoe stores in the mall, right next to each other! Competition is great for the economy! Makes each of us try that much harder, and keeps the customers coming back!
Ahhh.. Yabu.. you could make so much more... 
I saw your prices and *shake head in amazement*
I dont' price my droids based on what they cost to produce, that's crazy... I price my droids based on what I feel their worth in the marketplace.... 100K for probots, 110 for 107 rated harvesting droids... I actually had someone tell me if could break 110 on the harvest rating they'd pay me 200K for a droid.... which is small change to them...
Let's take the harvester example... docs will buy the BEST meat for well over 100CPU.. i've seen as high as 300CPU.... a master ranger can easily collect 1000 units of meat in a short amount of time.... at 100cpu, there's the price of the droid for under a couple hours of work.... really.. we should be charging 200K or more for a droid that can potentially make them millions over time.... and will never decay or go away on them.....
Am I greedy? perhaps... but when I have to turn around and buy a crate of brandy for 250,000 i wonder where that money's going to come from if i charge 50K for my harvesting droids, and 10-20K for my crafting station droids... sure they may cost 1/2 of that to produce, and i'm already making 100% profit, BUT I still can't afford to pay other people for their items.... because once a person has the doids he wants, they most of the time never come back... only the ppl that care about asthetics will ever return to you for different droids. probably 90% of the combat classes get their 5 storage droids, and that's it for them.. They never need to speak to a DE again... So damn straight i'm goin to charge 20K for a MSE with lvl 6 storage. I see those on the Marketplace for 6K or less even, and again I just have to *shake head*.
Also, I sell 75% of my droids on the spot... someone gives me a tell, I meet up with them, get their order, and make it on the spot in 10 minutes.... this saves them HUGE amounts of time, running to DE vendors, and/or emailing DE's who they don't know if they'll get a reply or not..... My vendors are fully stocked, at my normal "in the field" prices, and I sell a few a day...
To all DE's out there i say, don't sell yoruselves short. with the late stage the game is in the beginner prices of 10-20K for crafting droids, 50K for harv droids is LOW LOW LOW.... bump your prices up, make some profit, and be happy about it!! People *WILL* pay it... I'm living proof!
Z
Nell2ThaIzzay
Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:16 pm
#9
Zorkk, I'm reading your post, and it's probably because you're a master, or at least a lot higher than I am, but I'm thinking those prices are pretty freaking crazy.
I sell my harvestor droids for like, 4k. I don't have any vendors at the moment, so I'm limited to the 6k bazaar limit. But I make R4, R5 ADV, and WED ADV harvestor droids and sell 'em for 4k. To me, that's fair.
But to be quite honest, I'm not exactly sure how much I should charge for everything. I'm used to when I was around before, and I was selling all my droids for 3 - 4k. For awhile there, I had a shop I was running, and I came up with a pricing guide, but I don't remember exactly how it worked.
Actually... to not sell myself short, I think I'll make another post with all of the stuff that I can make... and see what some fair prices would be for all of these droids.
Zorkk
Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:56 pm
#10
Yes, sorry forgot to mention, I am definatly a master DE, as well as master artisan 
I do put droids on the bazaar sometimes... usually dz70's or mse's or the like with my 'failed' components. rather than destroy them, i throw them into beginner droids and sell em cheap. (users will want to upgrade eventually)
I will NEVER put a med 110 droid on the bazaar for 6K, that's just ridiculous! now.. i will put a lvl 5 (100) rated on at that price, because it's not "the best" and eventually that person will want to upgrade their droid.
You may think my prices are crazy, but after your first month of being a master and selling maybe 20 droids, at a piddly 20K, you'll soon come to realize (i hope) that droids really have a LOT more value than that.
Even at non master level you should be able to (i think) make crafting station droids.... a basic MSE with crafting station i sell for 20K.... same price as a basic MSE withlvl6item storage. 20K.... i sell an advanced MSE with crafting station AND item storage for 30K. I know you can't make lvl6 item storage not being a MDE, so sell those lvl 3-5 item storage for the 6K on the bazaar... because there's room for upgrade. Maybe even make note of who buys those, and offer them a deal after your a master and have the lvl6/10 item storage type droids.
Have you tried NOT selling on the bazaar and doing live sales? Ie selling in the starports? if your grinding, just sit yourself in a starport, put some sort of droid engineer tag up... do a SPAM macro if you really want (tho i'd say no less than 5 minutes intervals, but that's me), and sell those crafting statioin MSE droids for 20K or up.... there's no quality to take into account so your droid would be as good as mine. Goto mos eisley around the catina/bazaar and try to sell beginner harvest/entertainer droids....
Basically, as a DE i've had the most success by going to find my customers, not waiting back and hoping they find my vendor, or my sales on the bazaar. If i know of a 'hunt' that's happening, i'll head to the meeting place and sell harvesting droids to anyone that shows up (i always sell at least 1, 100 rated, 100K droids). I drop by the cantinas, and try to sell theentertainers some droids. Hang out in the mining outpost and sell combat tanks (best whenmaster )
)Iwish i had better advice for a 'non grinding' DE, butwhen I joined i had friends that were well established, and gave me everything I needed to grind up to master, so I (thankfully) never had to go thru the trials and tribulations as you seem to be doing.
My last bit of advice startyour pricing high in person...if they say no, you have the chance toshave some credits off to make the sale, or better yet, ask them what it's worth to them, and decide if it's worth it to you.Just the other night, I told a guy 100K for a 100 rated harvester and he said he thought it was too much,but he'd pay 80K... i countered with 90, we agreed at 85K...there's still plenty of profit there, i'm happy, he's happy, it's a win win. if you start low, you'll never know how much you could've sold that droid for.
And I can't stress enough,the resources tomake a droid should have no bearing in what you determine the price of said droid to be.... I used to feel a little guilty, especially just after I visited another DE's Vendor and saw what low prices they charged, but then, as i said, most of my sales are up front, in person, and totally customized right to the color. Plus i give batteries and a paint kit with every purchase. If anyone balks at my droid price, or offeres me something riduclously low, i'm happy to send them on their way "go find a stocked droid vendor" is my usual reply... sure, they could probably find it cheaper, but how many hours will that take? I'm right there, I can make it for them personally... that's worth something in my mind. Other counter arguments can include comparing a droid to that full set of comp armour that'l last 2 weeks if they're lucky.. how much did they pay for that? or the fact that most elite combat professions can make a few hundred K in a couple hours...
And in case you haven't heard this enough yet, here it is again... get Master Artisan! You'll save yourself a world of headache if you plan on keeping, and being a full time DE. Also, master artisan's get a vendor that you could place down....
Z
Nell2ThaIzzay
Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:56 pm
#11
Hey Zorkk, thanks for all of the advice.
To answer your first question, yes I do handle droid transactions outside of the bazaar. Just yesterday I had 2 orders in the half hour or so that I played. I do sometimes sit around Theed or something, sending messages that I'm currently taking orders for droids. I rarely get any takers tho. One reason, however, why I am skeptical about doing that tho, is that if I send out messages saying I'm taking orders, I hate it when people tell me with "can you make me a (insert droid I can't make here)" and I have to be like "Sorry, can't do that one".
Funny you mention the med 110 droid... I sold an MSE droid with a 110 medical rating to someone yesterday for 2k...
I currently can make a weapons/ droid / generic item crafting station. But that's about it.
I might have to really keep that in mind tho, the advice you gave about keeping my droid customers names in mind, so when I upgrade my skills and get new stuff I can build, I can get ahold of them and let them know I can make a better droid than what they currently have. I am also currently deciding whether or not I want to get into the vendor business again. Last time I had a vendor, I didn't sell a single item. I do, however believe that part of that was because I was in a horrid location. Now that I'm back on Theed, I have my house set up in a much more convenient location, so if I got myself a vendor, I could probably get better sales.
I am going to have to give up some skills that I currently have. I only have 33 skill points left, and to master DE I need 39. Plus I have a few goals I want to reach in Musician and Rifleman. I think CH will be the skill that I end up dropping, and most likely with the extra skills I have remaining I will work my way up the Merchant ladder in Artisan and get myself some vendors. Master Artisan is something that I'll never be able to attain with the other professions I want to pursue, and in all honesty, I'm not willing to give up those other professions for Master Artisan. As much of a pain as it will be, I'm just gonna have to suffer through it.
So yea, thanks again for the advice. Someone replied in my thread asking about prices, so I'm gonna check out the info he gave me and try to come up with my own pricing guide.
Negatarth
Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:27 pm
#12
I have a master DE/ Master TKM.. If people don't like the high prices I charge, then I tell them fine I'll go make the same money running missions on Dant.. But noone really complains since they can get the money for one of my droids by running two missions them selves..
Straker_Atrella
Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:38 pm
#13
The problem is this. There are3 schools for pricing your droids.
1. How much it costs you and how much profit you think is fair.
2.What the product is worth to the user.
3. Both one and two.
DE's are a curious sort,we have a different mindset then others, otherwise we would be Armorsmiths or Weaponsmiths. We think differently, we do it for the love. Because of this, we get many many DE's who ONLY price according to #1.
Very rare is the DE who lprices according to #2, yet it is common in just about every other crafting profession.
To be a successful DE businessman (to make money) you MUST do #3. The money is there, you can take it. There is no reason that you cannot love Droids yet still make money, no reason at all. I have made over 50 million in about 6 months of making droids, that is paltry compared to a good WS or AS, but for a DE that is good. Very very rarely do people complain about my prices, evne if they do, they still buy them.
First you need to accept that to many many of our customers, less then 100k is NOTHING. 3 Janta missions, selling a few Doc buffs, getting a little meat to sell. The money is out there, many people have more then they can spend.
Something else to consider is this. Let's say you sell +107 Harvestors for 20k. I sell mine for 80k. You sell 4, I sell one. Who came out ahead? We both made 80k right? Wrong. The 80k guy won, he saved the resources it takes to make 3 droids.
I could go more into detail, but I really reccomend my pricing guide that is on the first page now, I just bumped it.
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