Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: DE concern over the merge with WS

Jenden
Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:56 pm
#1

Posting this on the correspondents board.

Aside from the general fact that players can not pick which two crafting professions they want (giving more than a 50/50 shot of players ending up with only half the desired skills) DE's are concerned about the pairing with weaponsmith for a couple of reasons.
  • Droid and weapon crafting are almost polar opposites. Weapons are (currently) all about quality and mass production, with fairly low sub-component parts and little resources used. They are also enhanced through various loot drops that have to be acquired from combat oriented players. Droid engineering on the other hand is all about choices and options. The modular system gives allows us to make each droid unique, and encourages more of a custom/handcrafting business.


  • The only reason the droid market is currently stable is because of the low number of droid engineers. As it is the NGE is going to severely depress droid sales (more on that below) but to at the same time make DE (as part of engineer) one of (if not the most) common crafting profession sales are going to bottom out (specifically on BH droids, more on that later as well). Even if only 10% of the people who primarily take engineer for weapons make droids, that will still more than double or triple our current numbers (guesstimating here, but I think I'm pretty accurate). For most DE's having them go make weapons to make up the loss isn't really a viable option (see #1). The professions are just too different for the majority to find much interest in the other.


  • DE/WS is currently not a popular combination (see #1 for reasons), which means that most DE's that do want to try to make the most out of their skills will have to sell off a large number of their existing parts/resources and purchase new ones. This is not a fun experience for anyone involved.





  • Some of the reprucussions of the NGE on the droid market:
  • I mentioned that droid sales will be severely depressed with the NGE, this is because the primary motivation for players to buy new droids currently is because they are switching professions. A player that is locked into a single profession needs at most 5 droids for their entire career, 4 of those being storage droids that are often sold in bulk cheap. The single other droid for most professions is a combat droid. However, it was mentioned that CH was removed in the NGE because that kind of creature combat didn't work well in the new system. If this holds true, then even the combat droids will not be needed (not that they're particularly useful to high end combat types anyway).


  • Bounty hunter droids are currently in demand due to player missions for BH. With the removal of player missions sales will drop (assuming they are still used in the new system). Furthermore, BH droids are relatively simple and easy to produce in quantity, and have a similar clientel to that of WS. This leads to the likely conclusion that the market will become flooded (more so than it currently is) by people taking engineering primarily to make the weapons.


  • Our primary business has been with non-combat types (either by supplying combat droids for defense or crafting/harvesting/medical droids). With crafters being a smaller group, and no longer needing defensive droids since they do not draw aggro these sales will go down as well. The harvesting droids are, from what I've been able to determine, no longer used for anything (since harvesting is no longer a skill), so those will not be sold anymore. I do not know about medical droids in the new system, but if those are not useable/useful that will cause sales to fall even more. This leaves droid sales with essentially astromechs (only used in 5 ships), a few combat droids (assuming they are still useable in the new system), storage droids, and BH droids. this is not enough to keep our profession afloat.
  • Message Edited by Jenden on 11-07-2005 11:56 AM



    Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
    Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
    Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
    Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
    3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

    Kejid
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:53 pm
    #2

    A little more info posted by Tiggs


    Will there still be the ability for players to specialize in one specific crafting area (such as droids, or ships)?


    Traders will have the ability to choose from four different specialization areas within the Trader profession. For example, specializing in Engineering under the Trader profession will allow players to construct droids and weapons.


    In regards to being able to craft ships under the Trader profession, will the Reverse Engineering ability and process remain the same?


    Yes – but the ability will only be available to Traders with the Engineering specialization.


    Updated General FAQ




    Kejid T'Kel
    Master Creature Handler | Master Droid Engineer | Master Artisan
    What does your droid have to say?

    Jetpacks crafted = 0 | Mando crafted = 0
    And darn proud of it! I'm a Droid Engineer not a Jetpack Monkey.
    patchman70
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:17 pm
    #3

    Yup... Info is out... Quoting Bender from Futurama..."We're Boned"

    Thanks Tiggs... at least you gave out information....



    Janis Si'ind Greedy Engineer - Si'ind Shipwright
    scotchie Greedy shipwright - Si'indicate Droids 2005, 5634
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    To quote Uncle Owen on the nge "give us one more season"
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    KupyiLabe
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:21 pm
    #4

    I agree with just about everything posted there, though I should note that DEs also make flight computers used in all the ships not using astromechs (as you point out that only 5 ships use astromechs).

    And yeah, I tried WS for a while and didn't like it for the reasons you list below (and also became a DE for the reasons listed below).



    --
    Kupyi Labe :: CorSec Technical Specialist
    "Justice may be blind, but she has very sophisticated listening devices."

    Joron Darkdust :: Freelance pilot-for-hire
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    Jiurra :: Engineer and tinkerer
    Droid engineering is user friendly. It's just picky about who its friends are.
    Jenden
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:45 pm
    #5



    KupyiLabe wrote:
    I agree with just about everything posted there, though I should note that DEs also make flight computers used in all the ships not using astromechs (as you point out that only 5 ships use astromechs).

    And yeah, I tried WS for a while and didn't like it for the reasons you list below (and also became a DE for the reasons listed below).



    I didn't mention flight computers because they're not droids (and I specified droid sales).



    Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
    Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
    Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
    Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
    3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

    Atan
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:52 pm
    #6

    On a sidenote:

    I dont think we have to worry about Weaponsmiths that will take up engineering that much, since (at least as of now) all weapons that are in engineering are in munitions too. (Link) So they are the only profession that can choose what they want as 2. profession (DE or AS). I dont see anyone that is just interested in the money take up engineer and waste the potential to craft a much more needed produkt.

    Only point left now is that we are the only ones that have MArt. in the Skilltree....




    Infinity:
    Atan Schmitz (Retired Master Droid Engineer, whatever SOE calls him)
    Traal (Bounty Hunter, 13 confirmed Kills)
    Currently looking into renewing my Subscription.
    It is tentavely scheduled for Publish 29, but it might be pushed back to "soon"©

    RasalTheWise
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 pm
    #7


    Xrystal wrote:

    Also, currently Engineer is the only one to give access to the whole artisan skill as we have now.

    Domestics only get the Domestic branch, Munitions and Structures only get the Engineering branch.

    So, in the new system:

    Master Domestician would be the equivalent of Master Merchant, Master Chef, Master Tailor and Artisan 0444.

    Master Munitionist would be the equivalent of Master Merchant, Master Armorsmith, Master Weaponsmith and Artisan 0444.

    Master Structural Engineer would be the equivalent of Master Merchant, Master Architect, Master Shipwright and Artisan 4044.

    Master Engineer would be the equivalent of Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Master Droid Engineer and Weaponsmith 4404.

    In all they get the same number of skills just a different set.




    Well at least in order to get the full spectrum of weaponsmith, you need to get Master Munitions. That in itself will deter most WS from picking up the Engineering track.




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    Hakama
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:38 pm
    #8


    Hello Jender,

    Wow!!! All this is amzing to me. The diversity of crafting is what brought me to this game.(Please be light onflaming me) Now their is a Combat upgrade and were even being changed. I have been a Crafter since launch. I have loved the ability to be a droid engineer, master artisan, and master tailor until Shipwright came out. Now I am DE/SW/MA.I have been loving this combo due to the large similarities to them. Astromechs are made for ships as well as flight computers. They go hand to hand. I just would like to see a nice diversity of crafting, because we spend countless hours pulling resources just to make one item. We wouldn't do it if we didn't like our own original combo and the opinion we have on it. Well this is just food for thought. Crafting isn't as easy as fighting it is way harder. Thank you for yor time.



    Hakama

    -CRU-

    Space Monkey's

    Sealab CORP.


    "I have never wrote so much on the forums!"



    Hakama

    <CRU>

    Sealab
    RasalTheWise
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:04 pm
    #9

    This is not a flame or tease, but...

    Hakama wrote:
    Hello Jender,



    rofl! You get that much, Jenden?




    Rasal's Ye Ol' Droid Shoppe

    00000000000
    00
    0000000000
    0
    000000000000
    00
    000_0000000 Purveyor of fine and sophisticated droids and other Artisan needs.
    0000/0\000000 Come see my shop in beautiful South Coronet!
    000000000000 Shop Location: -140, -5500
    00000000000
    000000000

    LonelyGhost
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:14 pm
    #10


    I have been getting more and more sad over the past several days. I have a feeling my time with Galaxies will be ending. I know the Devs really wont notice me among the many, but this has been a fun last couple years for me, bugs and all.


    I joined SWG to be a Droid Engineer. That is the number one reason. A far second.... far.... is that it was Star Wars. DE is the only thing I ever really wanted to do. Its the only thing interesting enough to hold my attention.... well, that and collecting resources. I have tried every single crafitng profession in the game, including the hybrids. DE still ranks at numer one, with Architect my second choice. I've held the DE/Architect/Artisan/Merchant template for a long time.


    In 2 years, we have not seen a single new craftable chassis. We have seen some half-hearted attempts to revamp us, including many useless or broken modules. We've suffered from BH dabblers ruining our logest-standing business opportunity. We've suffered nerfs to our combat droids, relegating them to a sad joke. We even have a droid that can hold zero modules.


    66% of the core Star Wars iconic characterswere droids. C3PO and R2D2. And yet, droidsarerarely ever even seen in game(mostly from buff bots).


    I love the complexity and challenge of crafting in DE. It would be even better if more than about 6 of our modules were actually used. I sense that once again, our Devs are going to dumb down the crafting game. We even know now why they have been heading in this direction for the last year.... SWG is getting set for console gamers.


    So I wait and watch. I wait for a Live server to get copied over so full-template crafters can reveal to us things the Devs should have already told us. Things like if there have been any changes to harvesters or factories, or if there are certifications for either of them. Are schematics exactly the same for every crafting profession? Why was decay removed, and how do the Devs expect that to effect the Market in game? Why dumb down the game so far as to force us into profession groupings?


    I hope the answers are good. I hope I am able to continue to play this game. I understand, finally, that we will never get the level of communication we want. Its obvious there are a lot of left hands not telling the right hands what they are doing, making it impossible for the left hands to relay information to us.




    Crys Akkori - Merchant Engineer
    Veteren of SIN, IO, and XC - A Founder of Jaxian Bay
    Elder DE, Architect, Artisan, Chef, Merchant

    Vendor on Naboo at -7547 4635 (Fly in to Theed)

    Crafters do have decay on resources. As we use it it GOES AWAY. And when it's gone, we have to get more. - Elekae
    GnomeAd
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
    #11

    I've been thinking about this and I think the devs had some difficulty with how to distribute the schematics but still keep the professions balanced. Chef and Tailor were pretty easy to merge (having the same pre-req) but the engineer skills were something else.

    There's just no way to merge 5 professions into 3 and make it even without duplicates. This resulted into WS being replicated into two branches. The best suggestion is somewhat radical, but I think would actually work out for the best. Split shipwright.

    Give chassis to architects, weapons systems to WS and armor systems to AS. The rest? Give it to DEs. Then you would have Offensive Engineers, Defensive Engineers, Structural Engineers and Systems Engineers.
    Wallid
    Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:01 pm
    #12






    Atan wrote:
    On a sidenote:

    I dont think we have to worry about Weaponsmiths that will take up engineering that much, since (at least as of now) all weapons that are in engineering are in munitions too. (Link) So they are the only profession that can choose what they want as 2. profession (DE or AS). I dont see anyone that is just interested in the money take up engineer and waste the potential to craft a much more needed produkt.

    Only point left now is that we are the only ones that have MArt. in the Skilltree....




    someone has to make the fireworks





    McElroy: " it's not the size of the Smuggler in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the Smuggler. Let's do this now "


    Wallid Salmomn, Master "Field Protections" Elder Armorsmith of Xcalibur For all your Field Protections needs (as well as Reb Master Munitions Crafter ).
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    beachurr
    Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:46 am
    #13

    Right on, Jenden ... thats the problems right there.


    Keep up the magnificient work, i feel confident with you in my corner fighting this one out.


    As far as the future .. im a proud Droid Engineer and shall continue to be so - NGE or NOT, so u will still be seeing me showing of my "Master Droid Engineer" title.





    Beachur Barrezz / Vulvane Sense
    --------==]VNV[==--------
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