Doctor Archive
Thread: Is Doctor a Combat Profession?
Message Edited by garvin on 04-20-2005 10:24 AM
I'm not really sure what your question is. Are you asking if we're definitely going to be a combat profession post CU? If so, the answer is yes. I don't agree with it but that's meaningless at this stage of the game...
garvin wrote:
I'm not trying to start any type of arguement...just continue an off topic discussion (that has been so far VERY respectful and I think the docs who responded to me do you all credit!)...this is mostly for my benefit in understanding your profession a bit better as well as how you all see yourselves.
It was brought up in another thread that Docters are a "Combat Profession". I can't say that, personally, I totally agree with that. While it's true that they do gain more defensive capabilites via the CU, I see this as to help enhance their "Combat Support" role. To me, and of course I've been wrong before, I see Docs as "supporting combat" more then being "fighters" themselves.
Docters are covered by the CU changes big time are are seeing some very radical changes, but I see the changes as enhancing their "combat support" role and not as making them a "Combat Profession" specifically.
In that other thread someone said that "The Devs said we are a Combat Profession", but I don't recall ever seeing a Red Name post that Docs ARE a Combat Profession...I've seen them refer to the Support role that Doctors play post-CU as well as the great job the Doc Correspondent and Sandbox testers have been doing to make sure Doctors are capable of fulfilling their support role, but I haven't seen, besides in this forum, folks refer to Doctor as a "Combat" profession.
Anyway...please help me to understand you profession better...again, I mean no offense...One of my Characters that I enjoy playing is a M.Doctor/M.CM/M.Medic so I am not unfamiliar to the Doc profession and I have followed their changes fairly closely during the CU process.
TarMangani wrote:
I'm not really sure what your question is. Are you asking if we're definitely going to be a combat profession post CU? If so, the answer is yes. I don't agree with it but that's meaningless at this stage of the game...
garvin wrote:
I'm not trying to start any type of arguement...just continue an off topic discussion (that has been so far VERY respectful and I think the docs who responded to me do you all credit!)...this is mostly for my benefit in understanding your profession a bit better as well as how you all see yourselves.
It was brought up in another thread that Docters are a "Combat Profession". I can't say that, personally, I totally agree with that. While it's true that they do gain more defensive capabilites via the CU, I see this as to help enhance their "Combat Support" role. To me, and of course I've been wrong before, I see Docs as "supporting combat" more then being "fighters" themselves.
Docters are covered by the CU changes big time are are seeing some very radical changes, but I see the changes as enhancing their "combat support" role and not as making them a "Combat Profession" specifically.
In that other thread someone said that "The Devs said we are a Combat Profession", but I don't recall ever seeing a Red Name post that Docs ARE a Combat Profession...I've seen them refer to the Support role that Doctors play post-CU as well as the great job the Doc Correspondent and Sandbox testers have been doing to make sure Doctors are capable of fulfilling their support role, but I haven't seen, besides in this forum, folks refer to Doctor as a "Combat" profession.
Anyway...please help me to understand you profession better...again, I mean no offense...One of my Characters that I enjoy playing is a M.Doctor/M.CM/M.Medic so I am not unfamiliar to the Doc profession and I have followed their changes fairly closely during the CU process.
I think my question is more in regards to "Is Doctor a 'Combat' profession or more of a 'Combat Support' profession post CU?"
It seems to me that all of the post-CU abilities and defensesof Doc's post CU are to help them "support" combat players (or themselves if they have combat& healingaspects worked into their templates). In the Doc faq, it refers to Docs as "fighters", but I don't see them fighting unless they have offensive capabilities...I see them as healers who "support" the fighters (which could be themselves).
I'm in no way saying that the Post-CU design of Docs are good or bad...that's all a matter of opinion and this forum would definitely know best on that...what I am asking is "Are Doctors specifically a 'Combat Profession' post CU?" and to that end "Can a profession be defined as a 'Combat Profession' solely because it has defensive abilities (healing is used mainly as defensive and not offensive)?"
It's my opinon that for Docs to be a "Combat Profession" they'd need offensive abilties...they'd need to be able to do damage as well as have their defensive aspects...but wouldn't giving Docs offensive abilities move them closer to being "Combat Medics"? (that's probably a discussion for another thread...lol).
garvin wrote:
I'm not really sure what your question is. Are you asking if we're definitely going to be a combat profession post CU? If so, the answer is yes. I don't agree with it but that's meaningless at this stage of the game...
I think my question is more in regards to "Is Doctor a 'Combat' profession or more of a 'Combat Support' profession post CU?"
It seems to me that all of the post-CU abilities and defensesof Doc's post CU are to help them "support" combat players (or themselves if they have combat& healingaspects worked into their templates). In the Doc faq, it refers to Docs as "fighters", but I don't see them fighting unless they have offensive capabilities...I see them as healers who "support" the fighters (which could be themselves).
I'm in no way saying that the Post-CU design of Docs are good or bad...that's all a matter of opinion and this forum would definitely know best on that...what I am asking is "Are Doctors specifically a 'Combat Profession' post CU?" and to that end "Can a profession be defined as a 'Combat Profession' solely because it has defensive abilities (healing is used mainly as defensive and not offensive)?"
It's my opinon that for Docs to be a "Combat Profession" they'd need offensive abilties...they'd need to be able to do damage as well as have their defensive aspects...but wouldn't giving Docs offensive abilities move them closer to being "Combat Medics"? (that's probably a discussion for another thread...lol).
Docs are combat in that we get, post CU, defensive and offensive mods. The intent is for us to have a CM role in that we fight in groups on the front, (this is how we'll gain XP). We can do rear echelon support as well, however not the intent the devs are after.
As for me, I'm going to craft items as a BE, and then I'll do whatever I can to buff in the starport for a while, preferrably with a macro, to show my support of our new role to the devs. I invite as many docs as are willing to do the same! 
in the new system healing a combatant during fight will be seen as an offensive action, which make Doc a combat profession.
its like sometimes in PvP even now, where Docs and CMs are the first targets in battles.
Obata wrote:
Garvin,
I think the devs have already answered this question by having the doctor skill boxes count toward a charater's combat level. They seem to have removed the line between "combat" and "combat support". Under the current (pre-CU) system, I would agree that doctors fill a support role only. If it wasn't for the level system and doctors getting an increase in level, I would still agree (and I think you know my opinion on what the CU is doing to the doctor profession). I've always thought that doctors belong in combat. We are the counter to the damage dealers and a direct counter to CMs (that's what makes playing a doc/cm so much fun in PVP).
I argued many times, before the CU was announced, that medics and doctors are NOT combat professions and should therefore not have any defensive modifiers. I believed then, and still do, that our healing is our defense. Obviously, the devs have taken things in a different direction.
I do not see how you can make both statements. IMO if your needed to be in the middle of the battle to use your skills effectively then you are a combatant. If your skills are not needed during a battle then you are not a combatant.
It does not matter if your offense heavy or deffense heavy. It just matters when you skills are needed. Uptime, or downtime.
At least that is how I see it.
CM's are in the field, fighting and supporting the injured troops. The Troops get evaced somehow to the forward hospitals (M*A*S*H) where the docs go to work.
The docs are not actually in combat so they would be support.
however because of the mechanics of this game and the skills that are doc spacific and required in battle (rezing, high healing abilities etc.) they have to get the same upgrades to health that combat professions get.
Esentially the devs made it a combat profession, whether we like it or not.
However, whether you want to call it a 'Combat Support' profession or a Combat profession, the recent changes show that the new place for Doctors is being in a Combat group during the actual combat (instead of where they should be, according to how things should work in the SW world as opposed to simply a game with MMORPG dynamics and little regard to 'realism')
Marrow1 wrote:
Obata wrote:
Garvin,
I think the devs have already answered this question by having the doctor skill boxes count toward a charater's combat level. They seem to have removed the line between "combat" and "combat support". Under the current (pre-CU) system, I would agree that doctors fill a support role only. If it wasn't for the level system and doctors getting an increase in level, I would still agree (and I think you know my opinion on what the CU is doing to the doctor profession). I've always thought that doctors belong in combat. We are the counter to the damage dealers and a direct counter to CMs (that's what makes playing a doc/cm so much fun in PVP).
I argued many times, before the CU was announced, that medics and doctors are NOT combat professions and should therefore not have any defensive modifiers. I believed then, and still do, that our healing is our defense. Obviously, the devs have taken things in a different direction.
I do not see how you can make both statements. IMO if your needed to be in the middle of the battle to use your skills effectively then you are a combatant. If your skills are not needed during a battle then you are not a combatant.
It does not matter if your offense heavy or deffense heavy. It just matters when you skills are needed. Uptime, or downtime.
At least that is how I see it.
I guess I was defining "combat profession" similar to the way garvin does. Combatants have fighting skills (can inflict damage). A doctor who has no other combat related skills is and (I think) should be an easy target in combat.I'm not saying we don't belong in combat.I've always been an active healer, hence my template. I'm just saying that I don't think doctors should havethe combat related modifiers, or weapon skills. If we want that, we should use the rest of our skill points to get it.Honestly, I don't think anyone is served by getting caught up in definitions of what is or isn't a combat profession. The doctor profession is what it is. After the CU it will be something a bit different. Does it really matter what label is applied to it? It's not about how you label the profession. It's about what you do with the skills.
taloncard wrote:
I'm gonna do the stupid thing and bring real life into this.
CM's are in the field, fighting and supporting the injured troops. The Troops get evaced somehow to the forward hospitals (M*A*S*H) where the docs go to work.
The docs are not actually in combat so they would be support.
however because of the mechanics of this game and the skills that are doc spacific and required in battle (rezing, high healing abilities etc.) they have to get the same upgrades to health that combat professions get.
Esentially the devs made it a combat profession, whether we like it or not.
You're RL example is actually a bit outdated. There are doctors in the military who treat soldiers where they fall. Even in the old model with hospitals behind the lines (like in M*A*S*H), there were still doctors at aid stations right at the front who stabilized the wounded soldiers for their trip to the hospital units. Yes, most doctors are still in relatively safe areas, but not all of them.
Obata wrote:
There are doctors in the military who treat soldiers where they fall. Even in the old model with hospitals behind the lines (like in M*A*S*H), there were still doctors at aid stations right at the front who stabilized the wounded soldiers for their trip to the hospital units. Yes, most doctors are still in relatively safe areas, but not all of them.
This 'line of work' is currently actually represented in the titles of the Medic profession - Field Stabilizer, First Responder, Emergency Technician...