Doctor Archive
Thread: Avian Meat and how DR affects buff packs
Message Edited by Alila on 08-17-2004 11:45 AM
Enhance D duration = 12000 + 130 * (6*Avian DR + 4*Avian OQ + 6*Gas DR + 4*Gas OQ)/20
(credit goes to Happymob for deriving this equation)
I too thought DR ONLY affected duration but that is not the case.
I had some low DR avian meat and therefore could only make buffs with a duration of 2.4 hours.
Trying an assortment of organics/inorganics to try to tweak my action buffs down to 2.4 hour showed me that DR affect power as well.
At the time it made no sense to me since I was also under the mistaken impression that DR only affected duration.
I used low DR organics and inorganics. The organic had 950+ OQ and PE, and the inorganic had OQ 999.
Therefore I was expecting a very high buff value with low duration (to time it with the avian/gas buffs I was making).
The fact was though that the low DR on the ingrediants ALSO lowered the max power I was able to reach.
Many people will never see this, because they don't intentionally try to use 100-200 DR ingrediants so they won't realize the impact that LOW DR has on the power of a buff they are making.
Test it out for yourselves. Making action buffs, use 850 OQ/PE, say 700+ DR organics and 850 OQ, 700+ DR inorganics.
Then make an action buff with 950+ OQ/PQ, say 100 DR, 950+, 100ish DR inorganic.
Going by general wisdom, you would assume that the 950+ OQ/PE test would result in a much higher power buff than the 850 OQ/PE test. But it won't. The low DR, will hinder the power of the buff and make it lower than using 850's OQ/PE with 600+ DR ingrediants.
Lunariel wrote:
The DR has 2 effects:
- The Avian and Reactive DR each adds up to 65 minutes of the final duration.
- It changes how much you gain from each experiment point on the power.
The reason is the way the system handles multiple properties on the same experiment line. The duration and power is represented internally as 2 percentages. When you experiment parts of the gain on the highest is given to the lowest. This continues even after one of them is maxed out, stealing part of your points. If theDRis low, you may have to spend 11 or 12 points to reach max power.
Menoetius wrote:
Duration on a buff pack is 60% OQ / 40% DR
Other way around, 60% DR / 40% OQ
Obata wrote:
Lunariel wrote:
The DR has 2 effects:
- The Avian and Reactive DR each adds up to 65 minutes of the final duration.
- It changes how much you gain from each experiment point on the power.
The reason is the way the system handles multiple properties on the same experiment line. The duration and power is represented internally as 2 percentages. When you experiment parts of the gain on the highest is given to the lowest. This continues even after one of them is maxed out, stealing part of your points. If theDRis low, you may have to spend 11 or 12 points to reach max power.
It's true that they are experimented on the same line, but the duration does not gate the effectiveness. You can hit the max duration and still have room to keep experimenting for effectiveness only. If you watch both numbers as you experiment, you can see this happen. I have verified this experimentally.
I think you misunderstood what I said, or I wasn't too clear.
If you have resources which gives 90% max on power and 60% max duration, here is what happens.
Initialduration is 14.4%, while initial power is 25.65% and you are shown the average of 20% on the effectiveness line.
If you get a great success on both it takes 14% and divides between the two. So theduration may increase by 9% while the power increase by 5%. As you experiment and they get closer less and less is redistributed.
If you manage to hit exactly 60% on both, the next experiment will not redistribute anything. After that the power will be 67% after a great success, but the duration will stay at the 60% maximum.
On the next experiment after that the relation is 67 to 60, so it will try to split around 7.5 to duration and 6.5 to power. Of course the 7.5 is wasted, effectively stealing 0.5 of your experiment gain on the power.
As you continue more and more will be taken from your gain on the power.
When you hit maximum on the power at 90%, the shown percentage will be 75%. (Average of 60% and 90%)
The system is scaled so that you can always reach maximum on one line with 10 points of great success on a single property line. But the redistribution done on multiple properties will prevent you from that if the difference in the formulasis too big.
With 60% vs. 90% you will need tons of amazing successes to reach max with 10 points. If the difference is bigger even 11 points of great success is not enough.
So it's not gated if you have enough experiement points. 
The % displayed is the average of the 2, but the experimentation 'rolls' are not actually shared. Each property has it's own experimentation roll. When we experiment on the effectiveness line, two different experimentation rolls are performed, one for effectiveness and one for duration. The displayed result is the average of the two, but each one is tracked individually. That's why you can get asuccess and see one of the stats go down, or get a failure and still see one stat improve. The system doesn't distribute the success, each stat gets it's own chance for successfull experimentation and the system displays the average. If you get all great successes and have not maxed a stat, it's because one or more of the great successes was the result of averaging an amazing success on one stat with a good success on the other. This means that we have twice the chance of needing more than the normal 10 points to max the line, because we need to hit great successes on two rolls, every time we experiment. If the DR is very low, that factors into the chances of getting the great success rolls on duration, but does not effect the experimented value of the effectiveness.
Lunariel wrote:
I think you misunderstood what I said, or I wasn't too clear.
If you have resources which gives 90% max on power and 60% max duration, here is what happens.
Initialduration is 14.4%, while initial power is 25.65% and you are shown the average of 20% on the effectiveness line.
If you get a great success on both it takes 14% and divides between the two. So theduration may increase by 9% while the power increase by 5%. As you experiment and they get closer less and less is redistributed.
If you manage to hit exactly 60% on both, the next experiment will not redistribute anything. After that the power will be 67% after a great success, but the duration will stay at the 60% maximum.
On the next experiment after that the relation is 67 to 60, so it will try to split around 7.5 to duration and 6.5 to power. Of course the 7.5 is wasted, effectively stealing 0.5 of your experiment gain on the power.
As you continue more and more will be taken from your gain on the power.
When you hit maximum on the power at 90%, the shown percentage will be 75%. (Average of 60% and 90%)
The system is scaled so that you can always reach maximum on one line with 10 points of great success on a single property line. But the redistribution done on multiple properties will prevent you from that if the difference in the formulasis too big.
With 60% vs. 90% you will need tons of amazing successes to reach max with 10 points. If the difference is bigger even 11 points of great success is not enough.
So it's not gated if you have enough experiement points.