Doctor Archive
Thread: A compromise on surveying
One of the issues that seems to come up somewhat often is the fact that medics need survey skills to get the sometimes very specific resources we need. The suggestions have ranged from giving us the basic survey skill to sucking it up and keeping at least novice artisan. It seems that there are a few conflicting interests at play here, so let me see if can identify them and compromise between them.
On the developer side:
They want a functioning economy where resources are bought and sold. They feel that when people depend on each other the community benefits and the players are left with many more options. This was demonstrated by giving BEs the ability to create the pet healing packs.
On the medic side:
They feel it can be very hard to get the resources needed because no one else needs the types of things that they do, also because weaponsmiths, architects and armorsmiths have larger customer basesthey need larger amounts of the resources they require, so miners tend to focus on their needs whichare usuallyminerals. The medical community believes that it is unfairly forced to get skills outside their tree because of this miner bias, causing them to spend their precious skill points.
So here is "my" idea, and I am very much open to suggestions from either side:
The flora and chemical needs of the medical community tend to be used in the medicines themselves, while the minerals tend to be used for shell casings and assorted delivery mechanisms. It is concievable then, to assume that doctors know which plants and chemicals will make the best medicines, but not which minerals will make the best casings etc. Looking at the survey ability as the skill of identifying which resources are the most useful, why not allow the medical people to survey for flora and chemicals and nothing else? I believe this secures the market that the developers want, because there isn't a large market for the medical floral and chemical needs, while giving the medical professions the flexibility to get most of the resources they need.
Any comments are welcome but please explain the reasons and interests behind your position.
Phionn
P.S. My brother gets credit for a lot of this idea, but he is playing right now.
if its jst chemicals and floras...
what about the requirements for gas for enhances
more over what about totally shafting the CM class...hey need gas and chemicals...
what about water? water is a key for medics too
Doctors and combat medics need a greater number of specific resources spread among nearly all of the resource types as they get higher up their skill trees. They even need scout harvested meats which surveying wouldn't be able to help with. It is a problem, but I'm not really sure what the best way to address it really is. They way I've done it is that I'm friends with someone that likes resource mining. Conversely, he likes me use the best meds I can on him. So, he's more than willing to go to Dantooine or Lok to get stuff for me. He can then sell any of the extra resourcesoff to recoop some of his investment. I realise that a lot of people don't have that option open to them. I don't know what can, or should, be done about it besides listing it as a concern for our Coorespondent to pass along.
Water is extremely easy to get on my server, it may be different for you. Water second only to minerals in ease of obtaining. Do you have problems buying itfrom people? Do you have to find it yourself? Personaly, I find it much easier to get Talusian Water Vapor than any of the others. Furthermore, Ihave no interest in shafting the Combat Medic class... because I am one. Weaponsmiths need reactive gases as well, so I don't think that the issue is as dire as you have made it out. But if it is important to you, we should put more thought into it. Do you see reactive gases on your bazaars and vendors? Are they the gases you need for higher level packs or just the minimal requirements for As? What components do they go into and what is the title of the resource slot they use? Are they part of the medication or part of the delivery system, etc?More information would help out a great deal. Possible options include eliminating the need for the gases bychanging the requirements to flora or chemical resources, adding the gases to the "medical survey pack" or if they are more abundant on the bazaar than the flora, maybe include them on the list of resources we need to get from outside sources.
Phionn
tough to say whats on the bazaar across all servers...
some servers maybe have a ton of gas on it while there is nothing but chemicals on another server...
hard to make a call across servers.
I never buy off the bazaar, i find its the worse place for resources...i usually use my server board to get resources i need
my suggestion was back in a deeply buried thread was the following:
change /medicalforage to /medicalsurvey and increase in from 1 to 4 as you go up medical knowledge tree just like in the artisan survey branch.
the major cavet would be you would only get 1 SAMPLE per 20-30 sec tick period.
solves the survey problem of medics/doctors/combat medics and you get 1 sample to determine if its a viable resource to plop a harvester on top of it.
but thats just my crazy idea of how medical forage could be new and improved medical survey.
I know it tough to make across server prediction, that's why I was asking for YOUR server's statistics. I suppose since you don't buy on the bazaar, maybe you could run by one today and just take a quick peek? When you advertise that you need the materials on the boards, do you get a response in a satisfactory amount of time? Are the quantities offered right? Is the price right? I can certainly see how you would be put off by having to leave the game mechanics to get what you need, but maybe the resources are out there just not being sold on the bazaar because they people who have them aren't aware of the market for them?
Anyone else on different servers, please list the resources you have the most trouble getting without mining them yourself. Also, please list resources that you have no trouble getting. Being general as to the categories which the resources fall into would be a huge help. I.e. "I have no trouble getting plenty of fiberplast of any type, nor trouble getting Dantooine berries, but I can never find water or Lokian Wild Wheat without getting it myself." Please remember that resource quality isn't important here, doesn't matter if the berries are terrible, surveying won't help you get better beries if they don't exist.
Phionn
On ahazi...
hmmm i usually get what i need pretty fast...sometimes its a little over priced...
i find that good high quality radioactive is hard to come by since no one really mines it...
next would be liquid petro
reactive gas sometimes since i have to compete with WS for it and they have way more money...
water isnt that hard to get but no one really harvests it
NoDak has another viable option. I can, however, see how this will allow the medical classes to be completely cut off from the resource collector because they can now find anything they need and never need anyone except to build the harvestors. I think this would conflict with the developer's goal of creating a community game with a robust economy. I definately seemerit inthis idea and it should be explored more to be more accomodating to the developer'sneeds.
Phionn
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They feel it can be very hard to get the resources needed because no one else needs the types of things that they do, also because weaponsmiths, architects and armorsmiths have larger customer basesthey need larger amounts of the resources they require, so miners tend to focus on their needs whichare usuallyminerals. The medical community believes that it is unfairly forced to get skills outside their tree because of this miner bias, causing them to spend their precious skill points.
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The only reason that they don't stock them is because they don't know we need them. They don't know we need them because every medic (myself included) originally purchased and later kept Artisan just for Surveying. If we post here that we need Seeds, Berries, and exotic materials like Lokian Wild Meat (haha), they will certainly jump at the chance to make money on it. It sucks right now that they can't build the bigger harvs for Flora, but then we don't need quantities even close to those needed by Architects, so it balances.
That or get in a PA and have an artisan friend locate the resources so you can plant them yourself. That works unimaginably well, and you can save tons of points.
My suggestion, place a miner request on the boards and detail out what you're looking for. You would be surprised at just how quickly a market will open when there is a known demand. I know I would like to surrender Artisan, but I need it for Business III, so I can't surrender it. But if I didn't, I'd just place orders and adjust prices accordingly.
Thorazine wrote:
NoDak has another viable option. I can, however, see how this will allow the medical classes to be completely cut off from the resource collector because they can now find anything they need and never need anyone except to build the harvestors. I think this would conflict with the developer's goal of creating a community game with a robust economy. I definately seemerit inthis idea and it should be explored more to be more accomodating to the developer'sneeds.
the problem is currently the majority of the medical classes are cut off anyway since they use there own harvesters anyway. i know i use my own and dont even bother with an artisan or buy stuff off the bazaar since im self reliant. heck i even get my own meat with scout harvest 4.