Doctor Archive
Thread: A compromise on surveying
Yes, crafting may heavily depend on harvestors, and I don't think anyone is asking for that to change. But what does seem to be the consensus is that the medical professions shouldn't depend so heavily on others to get what they need, and I totally agree. But we also can't totally cut ourselves off from the other players in the game, so we are going to have to give some ground on what we are going to be able to get on our own...
Let's considerthe problem a different way. There are seven survey tools: solar, chem, flora, gas, mineral, water and wind. If at novice medic you were given the use of say 2 or 3 of these tools, which would you like to see implemented? I would choose chem, flora and gas, relying on others for minerals and water. If this doesn't seem reasonable, why not? What is reasonable to you?
Phionn
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the problem is currently the majority of the medical classes are cut off anyway since they use there own harvesters anyway. i know i use my own and dont even bother with an artisan or buy stuff off the bazaar since im self reliant. heck i even get my own meat with scout harvest 4.
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This is very true, but some of those people think they should be able to do this without spending the skill points in the other trees. I can't see how the developers would see this as reasonable in light of their goal of a robust economy. If you want to invest the skill points to be self reliant, that is fine, but the cost of being self reliant is those skill points. I think thatin order to come to the best agreement possible we are going to have to give some ground on what we can pull ourselves. This will help in two ways: the first is that it will narrow the need of the medical classes for outside help giving miners a clear idea of what medics need, alleviating the fear that they may mine something that only one person needs in small quantities. Second it will allow us to get the more exotic materials we need without running around begging miners to go get it.
If we can survey for something we can place a harvestor on it, and if we can place a harvestor on it, we don't need a miner to do it. This effectively cuts us off from the artisans, as we no longer need them to get anything. What is your reasoning for saying it doesn't cut us off from the miners?
Phionn
Radiactive and petrochem can be used to power stuff... even better, it can often be found in 90% spots (while wind and solar often cap out at 40's).
even havign to power the harvesters (which you don't ahve to do with wind and solar).. you can still get far more petro and radioactive on a 97% spot.. then a power free wind harvester on 40%.
It has multiple markets for sale (while wind and solar have 1 use, 1 sale market).
Generally a better resource to mine than wind/solar...but nobody bothers.. even better.. you can take a harvester off of regular duty to get this stuff.. then switch it back to whatever later... don't need to buy a dedicated harvester (good for lot management).
-T
Because anyone can place a harvester and harvest...
Thorazine wrote:
If we can survey for something we can place a harvestor on it, and if we can place a harvestor on it, we don't need a miner to do it. This effectively cuts us off from the artisans, as we no longer need them to get anything. What is your reasoning for saying it doesn't cut us off from the miners?
Phionn
Yes, anyone can place a harvester and harvest, but not anyone can find the best place to put that harvester. That's where the artisan tree comes in, they have the ability to find the best place to put those harvesters. If we, as medics, do not need the artisan tree to find those spots than we don't need the miners at all, which specifically goes against the developer's idea of running an economy. They WANT us to depend on the miners, unless we invest the skill points ourselves. The conflict of interest occurs with people who feel they shouldn't have to get any artisan skills to be able to meet their resource finding needs. I am currently trying to reconcile these differences.
Phionn
if they meant for use not to survey/sample why do we have /medicalforage...
its obvious that the devs meant for use to have some survey/sampling
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if they meant for use not to survey/sample why do we have /medicalforage...
its obvious that the devs meant for use to have some survey/sampling
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EXACTLY what I am arguing. 100% totally the same thing I am suggesting. /medicalforage won't find minerals, will it? Will it find reactive gases?Will it find chemicals? I've only used it about a dozen times and it only comes up with the things a flora tool would. Let me restate my idea: get rid of medical forage and givemedics the use of the survey tools to find the resources that medical forage was meant to find, maybe more if that doesn't include gases/chemical.
Phionn
fact is that we are the only beginning class that crafts but cannot survey/sample
also /medicalforage was from an era were you didnt even need 8 of the same resources for packs..just 8 organics...and probably 8 random minerals...
fact is the devs have no clue what they are doing...otherwise why would they even give 1/2 the skills needed to craft....
sounds to me like the devs didnt know what the heck they are doing to start with...
just another example of something they thought would work but then forgot and left in then went on with the game never realizing that leaving it 1/2 a$$ was worse than taking it out...
just look at mind damage...
giving me 1/2 of what i need and not the other half...id rather have both or none...
Count me in as a Doc against automatic self sufficiency. I firmly believe that if you want to be self sufficient, you have to pay for it. I say this as a four profession Doc, with Artisan, Medic, Scout, and Marksman all with skill points (not even mentioning Elite professions). Would I like to be able to sell my goods without Artisan, climb hills like a madman, harvest my own Avian meat, and survey for resources without spending all those skill points? Sure, but that clearly means that I don't suffer any penalty for being self sufficient.
If we get this, then Stim-As and Bs should be free for everyone to use. Is it fair that they need to get Novice Medic to use Stims?Shouldn't Marksman be self sufficient? Why do they need to get Medic to heal themselves? Also, why shouldn't everyone get a skill to reduce their battle fatigue? How is it fair that they have to spend skill points themselves or rely on other players?
The argument can be phrased so many different ways, but it is still wrong. Just because it benefits us doesn't make it right.
Medic is also the only begining tree with crafting that doesn't start with artisan (because they are both starting classes). And all the weaponsmiths, armorsmiths and other elite crafters still can't get all the resources they need alone because they need so much different stuff. Of course you'd like to have everything, but I don't think it's going to happen, and what you are risking is getting nothing. Why are you willing to risk so much? What do you gain from no change in the system?
Phionn
1 large harvester on a 90% vein = 9k resources...
so 2 lots for a small house 1 more for a factory...
u still have 7 lots for harvesters....thats 7 different materials that can be harvested at one time...
They have more than enough slots to be self sufficent...
not to be a huge corporation churning out 100s of items a day, but more enough to be self sufficient...
I suppose that is something we are going to have to agree to disagree on... most of the smiths I come across have at least 3 factories. But like I said, that is something we are going to have to live with.
More importantly, I'd like to know what motivates you to take the position that if you can't survey for everything with medical skills only, you don't want to be able to survey for anything? What do you gain/lose from no change in the current system? What do you gain/lose if you get all the surveying abilities? What do you gain/lose if my idea were to be implemented? Further, what do you think of Zorona's post on self sufficiency of the other classes?
Phionn