Doctor Archive
Thread: Something I think should be done to buffs (It won't but it's nice to dream)
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Juggalosaurus
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:43 pm
#1
What really bugs me about SWG (and why I quit) is that the entire game is soloable as long as you're buffed (amd have armor). I don't really think buffs buffing for too high is the issue. Buffs in game usually greatly increase stats. I think that they do, however, last for MUCH too long. I think buff duration should be cut down to around 30 minutes at the maximum. It wouldn't stop people from taking down big creatures by themselves, but it would limit the availability and convenience of buffs. I can't think of any other game that has such long lasting buff type effects. They're meant to be temporary enhancements. 3 and a half hours might as well be permanent.
Okey, some things I think ya'll docs might complain about:
"It will kill our business" - Well, you probably wouldn't be able to sit at starports and buff anymore, but you could very well *gasp* join groups and do missions. If buffs lasted for less time, doctors would actually have a nice place in a hunting group.
"It's a total nerf" - Well, I also think that variant buffs should be introduced, and they may actually be thinking of doing this. The disease/poison buffs, while a response to CMs, could be the start of non HAM buffs. I'd personally like to see some speed, damage, resistance, or skill increasing buffs. Give doctors some nice versatility.
I have also been a doctor before. Not a master doctor, but enough to give decent buffs and rez. I did all my leveling and spent all my time doing missions with my guildmates, and it was fun. I never spent more than 30 minutes buffing in any one place. I quit doctor, however, because I was tired of how people constantly expected me to just be sitting in one place buffing.
I dunno, maybe some doctors like stationary buffing and whatnot, but personally, I don't see how anyone could prefer that rather than actually being out in a group doing missions /shrug
Whatever, I know this really doesn't matter, but let's discuss it some anyway...
Okey, some things I think ya'll docs might complain about:
"It will kill our business" - Well, you probably wouldn't be able to sit at starports and buff anymore, but you could very well *gasp* join groups and do missions. If buffs lasted for less time, doctors would actually have a nice place in a hunting group.
"It's a total nerf" - Well, I also think that variant buffs should be introduced, and they may actually be thinking of doing this. The disease/poison buffs, while a response to CMs, could be the start of non HAM buffs. I'd personally like to see some speed, damage, resistance, or skill increasing buffs. Give doctors some nice versatility.
I have also been a doctor before. Not a master doctor, but enough to give decent buffs and rez. I did all my leveling and spent all my time doing missions with my guildmates, and it was fun. I never spent more than 30 minutes buffing in any one place. I quit doctor, however, because I was tired of how people constantly expected me to just be sitting in one place buffing.
I dunno, maybe some doctors like stationary buffing and whatnot, but personally, I don't see how anyone could prefer that rather than actually being out in a group doing missions /shrug
Whatever, I know this really doesn't matter, but let's discuss it some anyway...
uboo
Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:31 pm
#2
i'm not a public buffing doctor so timing really wouldn't matter to me, whats going to stop me from soloing? (other than i don't like soloing)
this "solution" would create even more docs than standardized buff stats did.
Brainplay
Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:06 am
#3
There's only one component of buffs that make them so powerful and that is the regeneration portion of the buff. Having Health and Action up to 2500 is not a big deal but regenerating for 10-30 points of damage a second is a big deal when armor comes into play. Its also the main reason why healing in this game is not a major necessity.
Syraxen
Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:35 am
#4
I simply dont want to join hunting groups to buff/heal so this would probbably suck for me, plus just how many docs are there for all the people hunting, there wouldnt be enough to go around. Due to the nature of exp and the fact that theres no aa's or anything, grouping would be pointless to me, why would i bother healing somone? i get no exp from it, why would i bother following a group around buffing them, unless they paid me a small fortune for my time + buffs there wouldnt be any point.....
More likiely all this change would mean is your cusomers would come back every 30 mins instead of every hour, OR they wouldnt bother with buffs at all.
yusonge
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:08 am
#5
Obviously you havent played other MMO's. EQ had buffs from a cleric that lasted hours. Shadowbane was the same way. It has been this way in the last 5 MMO's i have played that some class gives enhancements that last 2-4 hours.
Juggalosaurus wrote:
What really bugs me about SWG (and why I quit) is that the entire game is soloable as long as you're buffed (amd have armor). I don't really think buffs buffing for too high is the issue. Buffs in game usually greatly increase stats. I think that they do, however, last for MUCH too long. I think buff duration should be cut down to around 30 minutes at the maximum. It wouldn't stop people from taking down big creatures by themselves, but it would limit the availability and convenience of buffs. I can't think of any other game that has such long lasting buff type effects. They're meant to be temporary enhancements. 3 and a half hours might as well be permanent.
Okey, some things I think ya'll docs might complain about:
"It will kill our business" - Well, you probably wouldn't be able to sit at starports and buff anymore, but you could very well *gasp* join groups and do missions. If buffs lasted for less time, doctors would actually have a nice place in a hunting group.
"It's a total nerf" - Well, I also think that variant buffs should be introduced, and they may actually be thinking of doing this. The disease/poison buffs, while a response to CMs, could be the start of non HAM buffs. I'd personally like to see some speed, damage, resistance, or skill increasing buffs. Give doctors some nice versatility.
I have also been a doctor before. Not a master doctor, but enough to give decent buffs and rez. I did all my leveling and spent all my time doing missions with my guildmates, and it was fun. I never spent more than 30 minutes buffing in any one place. I quit doctor, however, because I was tired of how people constantly expected me to just be sitting in one place buffing.
I dunno, maybe some doctors like stationary buffing and whatnot, but personally, I don't see how anyone could prefer that rather than actually being out in a group doing missions /shrug
Whatever, I know this really doesn't matter, but let's discuss it some anyway...
Next alot and i do mean alot of us refuse to group with strangers(not talking jsut docs here) Typical night would be spending 20 -30 minutes yelling for a group then having to travel to your hunting place. You have just now lost between 20 - 50 minutes before hunting. Then you have to deal with the kids(not meaning under18 here) that refuse to listen and follow orders. This will end up with a trip to the cloner or rezz from the doc on more than one occasion. What you have done is now kill your casual gamers who cannot lvl or hunt or compete with the powergamers.
Lastly you do not need buffs to hunt in this game. I have almost mastered rifleman without the use of my buffs and using stim b's as a doc. Anyone with novice medic can do the same.
Visnja
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:17 am
#6
Sorry, but I don't agree with the original poster. 30 min buffs? With a 20 man group, there is no way your missions will be done in 30 min. If a doctor went along, there is no way I'm buffing someone who's buffs ran out right when 5 Rancor appeared.
I went hunting with a group because someone wanted to have a master doctor along to rez, heal, etc. The previous poster is correct .. the whole time I was with this group .. I was rezzing, healing, telling people to stop shooting the lair while others were running around freaking out because they were being chased by Rancors. Not just one, but 7. One personhad no manners, whatsoever. She ordered to be rezzed, healed, etcand then upon being rezzed, proceeded to shoot the lair. Meanwhile,people arebeing killed by Rancor left and right. Not once did she help. The leader was too busy shootingrancor and not able to tell her to stop OR kick her from the group. People were spamming spatial and group, telling her to stop, it was ridiculous.
This left a bad taste in my mouth and Ihardly evergo hunting in groups. The only time I accept, is if the leader offers to pay me. My time in game isn't going to be spent babysitting and 30 min buffs would make this 10 times worse.
________________________________________________
Visnja
@>~^~ Master Doctor/Teras Kasi Master ~^~<@
Visnja's Med Shoppe h 1935 -3589 h Dearic, Talus/Bria
hambokc7mrp
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:42 am
#7
One of mybigest peeves is anything that keeps me from supporting my guild/group like not being able to heal wounds and buff
on the corvet or the geo lab even with my droid standing next to me in the medical ward.
if I get into a group that has some one acting like a noob I give them a nice tell while they are down(captive audiance)letting them know who is in charge, me and if they cant follow orders then they can clone away.
when i am in a group I expect the group members to work with me, I will not chase people around while they are screeming for heals.
if they need to run then they can run twords me.
also if I start gettinginto trubbleI expect the group to drop what there doing and help me out.
I under stand that there are some situations that make that impossable and take that into account.
but people that make an honest effort to support and work with me, I will kill my self to support them.
I have been a master doc since launch and i am very very good at it.
I have pulled groups that had no hope of surviving out of the mud and pushed them to victory.
you just have not lived tell you have followed half your group out of the night sister cave with several NS in tow then dubble back inside while they chased the others, rez and heal 5 of your group mates and one that was not and get them out alive all with out armor, (one argo and your dead.)
or rezed/healed then fully buffed a groupmate while he is in melee with a dragon.
To hear the squeels of joyas he/she blesses the ground you walk on.
I would love to see docs(combat healers) get faction for healing, we face all the same dangers and with less armor and less defence.
I would love to see something done about the massive storage problems.
4state packs
6 buffs
6 wound packs
stempacks (big and small)
2 area cures
2 point cures
2resist packs
plus a crate of each so you dont run out
that is like 44 and i prob missed some
then a crafting station and some resources in case you accually do run out.
then all the stuff you need to go on missions.
we need a med kit that adds zero weith to our packs (meds only) I think 25 would be great and it would be help full in keeping the meds from getting buried in the rest of the stuff(need to access it fast)
*I would also like to see the AI for stempac use get better when I am healing a fully buffed fighter in combat and my AI chooses a stem B insted of the Stem E it may get him killed the invers is nearly as painfull in usinf a Stem E to heal some one that only has a few points of damage
TheSidhe
Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:21 pm
#8
I totally disagree -- I personnally feel that buffs are not the issue. It's the armor everyone is wearing. Ask any Wook what it was like before they had no armor if they felt buffs made them godly solo machines. I think they will agree that it wasn't until they had armor that life in the solo world become a really possible.With a good set of armor who needs buffs! Just have novice medic, brandy and don't spam your specials.
Want an example -- Remove your armor and go out and rumble with a few Janta's with only buffs. Some builds may do ok but the other 95% would be visiting the cloning center often.
Before great armor there was only buffs -- my doc/cm had a job. With all the godly armor I had to retire my cm, he was no longer needed.
My 2 cents!
captenjonny
Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:34 am
#9
The original poster must feel there is a lot of game satisfaction in killing Kreetles and Durni. Get real! If I had to play the game for a year to get to the higher level content I wouldn't -and I dare say not many- would not be forkling over $15/mo for pretty graphics. And what exactly would the docs do for revenue? I don't want to hear that tired old crap about the game being ALL about grouping. The advertismetsaid that I can enjoy the game equally well in a group OR SOLO!!!
I thik the current buff system is just fine.
Brainplay
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:42 am
#10
TheSidhe wrote:
I totally disagree -- I personnally feel that buffs are not the issue. It's the armor everyone is wearing. Ask any Wook what it was like before they had no armor if they felt buffs made them godly solo machines. I think they will agree that it wasn't until they had armor that life in the solo world become a really possible.With a good set of armor who needs buffs! Just have novice medic, brandy and don't spam your specials.
Want an example -- Remove your armor and go out and rumble with a few Janta's with only buffs. Some builds may do ok but the other 95% would be visiting the cloning center often.
Before great armor there was only buffs -- my doc/cm had a job. With all the godly armor I had to retire my cm, he was no longer needed.
My 2 cents!
Most melee professions will work great against them due to toughness and defense. Ranged have no chance like that.
I still think its the regeneration thats the unfair part. Even with 80% resist armor you still take damage but that damage is regenerated at an alarming rate that makes it neglegible. It also makes sure that healing isn't going to be necessary. Imagine doing a Janta mission without any regeneration at all. You'd have to come back from time to time to get healed and in some cases if the NPC's go crazy spamming specials or put a bleed on you it becomes serious.
All other MMO's had buffs in them as well. The difference is that fighting someone of equal level and armor still gave you a chance to beat them. You were also required to bring a healer to most dungeons. Why? Regen couldn't hack it like it does here.
y-osa
Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:09 pm
#11
It would be better to divide power and duration up in the experimentation process, power on buffs is extreme any way, this would add more depth and challeng. Lets say an average of both using great packs would hit a 2000 buff for 3 hour, more than enough, I might opt to max the stats side for over 3000 pow, at a cost of over 2 hours, would be good in specific pve of pvp, although a duration of almost 5 hours at a buff 1000-1500 would be ideal for the average hunter, the flexabillity is better; and I agree that armour is to high in resists,they should take out the base resists altogether, change certain armours to have medium and heavy protections, and various armours could have a few specific special protection aplied by using layers and loots, as well as vulnerabilities, this could result in comp. having a heavy rating, and no base resists, of course you could still put your special resist layers in, but at an increased cost to encumberance, so a suit of comp with heavy rating, would average out at 400-500 encumberance, would still have a 50% def against a vk,and a vulnerabilly would negate the armour rating altogether, so a light saber could do 100% damage plus its pearcing value, this could drastically affect which armours you ware to which battles, still afford you a high def vs specific damage types with certain layers, and make you equally as vulnerable against certain weapons, of course bone armour would only get a light rating, no extra resists.
pouthic
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:43 pm
#12
not meant as a flame, but have you every played everquest some of the higher end buffs last anywhere from 2-4 hrs so it is not justSWG with long ass buffs.
chardin
Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:50 pm
#13
i don't often do this.... I prefer to keep to myself i disagree with a post however, this is my 2 cents on how to make the buffs/armor issue ok. I am currently a rifleman, Master doc and have masterd all teh other comabt profs, i have too many ideas and cant get an order to put em in, so ill just start rambling and type everything that coems into my mind 
2500 buffs are insane, with 70-90% armor your invincible! however pvp would be become boring as well (all u ppl that have dueld no buffs b4 know what i mean) sooooo...... make the 2500 buffs last 30-45 minutes, then make the 3hour ones 1000-1500 enhance. (ill explain mor eon this later)
HAM COSTS! i have gotten only action and health buffs b4 and specials DRAIN them, so by eliminating ham costs (on weapons, not encumbrance) all you would need are health and action buffs. OR eliminate health and action buffs and make the 2500 ONLY for secondaries, i have tried this and managed to solo a GDK with tkm and swordsman (85 kinetic armor) although getting rid of ham costs render one of the secondaries useless the devs can make them damage resis modifiers to the damage taken to that pool
REGENERATION! by eliminating regeneration costs the medic professions will again be needed and soloing ppl will have a bit harder time
or as something i DO NOT WANT TO PUT IN cuz i rely (lol cant think of how to spell it atm {ree lie}) on armor, but eliminate high end armor... make all armor liek 50% usual and 60 as the uber stuff
any of the above will amke chefs mroe useful... instead of just using them to keep you mind heald. THAT REMINDS ME! the mind secondaries should be raised (or do more at their current stats)
thats my 2 cents, no will just start the timer and wait for ppl to point out my flaws and flame me
2500 buffs are insane, with 70-90% armor your invincible! however pvp would be become boring as well (all u ppl that have dueld no buffs b4 know what i mean) sooooo...... make the 2500 buffs last 30-45 minutes, then make the 3hour ones 1000-1500 enhance. (ill explain mor eon this later)
HAM COSTS! i have gotten only action and health buffs b4 and specials DRAIN them, so by eliminating ham costs (on weapons, not encumbrance) all you would need are health and action buffs. OR eliminate health and action buffs and make the 2500 ONLY for secondaries, i have tried this and managed to solo a GDK with tkm and swordsman (85 kinetic armor) although getting rid of ham costs render one of the secondaries useless the devs can make them damage resis modifiers to the damage taken to that pool
REGENERATION! by eliminating regeneration costs the medic professions will again be needed and soloing ppl will have a bit harder time
or as something i DO NOT WANT TO PUT IN cuz i rely (lol cant think of how to spell it atm {ree lie}) on armor, but eliminate high end armor... make all armor liek 50% usual and 60 as the uber stuff
any of the above will amke chefs mroe useful... instead of just using them to keep you mind heald. THAT REMINDS ME! the mind secondaries should be raised (or do more at their current stats)
thats my 2 cents, no will just start the timer and wait for ppl to point out my flaws and flame me
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