CUEmu - Thread Posts

MsNiL

Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:59 am

Heal Wars
Episode 19

Welcome back mindbar. Goodbye Wookiee's (you are too dumb to survive combat) and welcome back Mon Calamari (who are smart enough to outheal everything).

Welcome back you single skilline replacement for master doctor. Welcome back überheals.

Welcome 4000 Doctor toevery template in existance, the now essential line everybody needs.

Goodbye Master Doctors who came with us to keep us during the last3 months to keep ushealed, now we do your roleourselves thanks. It was good to have you around. Now respec to something useful will you?

Goodbye "Combat Upgrade" and what you where meant to do with overpowered Stim-B.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 07-16-2005 07:00 PM

--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.

MyT_Chicken

Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:46 am

#2

On the bright side people can't complain about the lack of Wound Healers.

h Egri p
§ If you don't know; you'll find out soon enough! §

KupyiLabe

Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:49 am

#3

With all respect, what are you on about?

--
Kupyi Labe :: CorSec Technical Specialist
"Justice may be blind, but she has very sophisticated listening devices."

Joron Darkdust :: Freelance pilot-for-hire
Joron Darkdust grinds his coffee with his teeth and boils the water with his own rage.

Jiurra :: Engineer and tinkerer
Droid engineering is user friendly. It's just picky about who its friends are.

Marrow1

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:02 pm

#4

To be honest I am kinda on the fence regarding this issue.

Back in the day most folks just had N. Medic + StimB + Buffs to be healed up. Today you need 4000 Doc/CM + StimD + Food/spice. To me, at least this is progress. Today, you need to expend many more skill points to get a large healing bonus compaired to pre CU.

The question now is should you have to spend even more to get it? If the answer is yes then the number of M. Docs will go up but at the cost to other prof. You wind up simply shifting dablers from being M. Fight class + Dable Doc to M. Doc + Dable fight class. Of course this may be better for the Doc prof but is this really better for the game? I am not so sure.

Yes I would like to see some real healing bonus give to master. More importantly, though, I would like to see more need for the other lines in Doc so that by getting them on the way to Master you inherently add more value to getting master. The doc prof should not be a two skill (healing damage and speed buff) prof.

For example, if creatures started poison/diseasing then area cures would be a worth while reason to get master. If CM poison and disease pack more of a punch, again you would see more master docs.

So although I would like to see a bonus to master doc, I would not like to see that at the cost of the dabbler nor at the promotion of the bonus as being the sole reason to get master box.

__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__

TenshiHanaKinu

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:12 pm

#5

I personally don't havea problem with dabbling. However they're going to get us all nerfed.

4/0/0/0 heals just as well as Master Doctor, practically. Everyone sees that and those that don't pick it up go "Nerf Doc, they heal too well" which will get ALL of us nerfed, even those who spend the points to master it. The point is that the Advanced Version of the heals are in Master Doctor. In CM they are in the 4000 tree, true. However, they tossed us a "bone" by giving a Bacta Shot 2, but it was just a name, its value isn't really noticeable. What's the point of "Advanced Bacta Toss" or "Advanced Bacta Shot" if "Bacta Toss" and "Bacta Shot" are capable of the same yield because it's dependent only on the amount of Healing Efficiency you have?

Should Armor Break be as powerful as Advanced Armor Break 'cause you have a certain amount of Accuracy?

Should Center of Being be as powerful as Improved Center of Being just because you have a certain amount of Defense?

The point is the heals are not working as they should.

___________________________________________________________________
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Doctor Tenshi Kyrie Moya
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Moya's Extended Biography (Synopsis)
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn (( RP )) Level 90 Medic
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn   Master Politician // 4444 Reb.Pilot
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Infamous Bria Celebrity! Sorry, no autographs.!
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Support Crew. July 2003 - Feb 2007.
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Ademan

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:19 pm

#6

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I have to agree that heals cant be working as intended at the moment. As a Master Doctor who still has 4240 Medic (Bacta Toss), because I was using it to grind, it seems very wrong that my Master Doctor box skill Advanced Bacta Jab heals for considerably less than my x2xx medic skill does.

______________________________
Kaalan

MsNiL

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:46 pm

#7

Marrow1 wrote:
To be honest I am kinda on the fence regarding this issue.

Back in the day most folks just had N. Medic + StimB + Buffs to be healed up. Today you need 4000 Doc/CM + StimD + Food/spice. To me, at least this is progress. Today, you need to expend many more skill points to get a large healing bonus compaired to pre CU.

The question now is should you have to spend even more to get it? If the answer is yes then the number of M. Docs will go up but at the cost to other prof. You wind up simply shifting dablers from being M. Fight class + Dable Doc to M. Doc + Dable fight class. Of course this may be better for the Doc prof but is this really better for the game? I am not so sure.

Yes I would like to see some real healing bonus give to master. More importantly, though, I would like to see more need for the other lines in Doc so that by getting them on the way to Master you inherently add more value to getting master. The doc prof should not be a two skill (healing damage and speed buff) prof.

For example, if creatures started poison/diseasing then area cures would be a worth while reason to get master. If CM poison and disease pack more of a punch, again you would see more master docs.

So although I would like to see a bonus to master doc, I would not like to see that at the cost of the dabbler nor at the promotion of the bonus as being the sole reason to get master box.

States are very rare, and will most likely continue to be rare. Even when they happen, the actual effect is barely seen. It will take drastic changes for them to ever make Master Doctor useful on things other than heals.

I was happy when doctors got their role back as the healers. It was enough payment for me for loosing my buffs. But now thats gone, and we are again replaced by dabblers.

When you can buy an entire profession's iconic signature abilities, with only 1/5 of your available skillpoints, then that profession is dead. Especially bad it is, if your profession is one of the four grouproles (healer/damagedealer/tank/crowdcontrol) allowing any dabbler to completely replace you and your characters actual role out there.

Right now, so easy access to powerful healings for just53 points, isto get 200 2h speed, 200 2h accuracy, Power Attack/Armor Breakand license for a Power Hammer for just 53 points, then saying "well, at leastyou must be master swordman to get berserk and critical strike". Or why not 53 points to get +100 harvest and the ability to track down everything in the game. Or 53 points to get all crowdcontrol abilities in smuggler+pistoleer together. Or 53 points to get cover/t-21...

Another issue is, you currently must have at least 4000 doctor in your template to keep up with the rest, and suddenly abilities such as Traumatize and Force Sap, and everything that boost mind is gold, changing everybody's way to play the game, thanks toone single skilline. When one single line change the course of the game, thats overpowered in my book.

This is basicly the exact same issue there have been with Jedi since the CU... Most Jedi go Master Defender and 4000 Healer, thus covering the full role as a tank and the full role as a healer within thesame template. Now we can just go 4000 Doc/TKM/Swordman and we have a good tank with high damage output and all the heals the iconic Healer profession in swg can offer.

The worst case scenario once SoE realise their mistake, is if they getrid of doctor like they did with master healer... Nerfing heals all together instead of making sure you had to be master to heal like you do now.

--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.

MsNiL

Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:04 am

#8

KupyiLabe wrote:
With all respect, what are you on about?

I am just a bit ticked off by the fact that they broke the combat balance in 3 months.

Now we are back to forced and overpowered templates again, while masters are yet again less suited for the things they are masters in.

--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.

TenshiHanaKinu

Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:20 am

#9

4 - 0 - 0 - 0 Doc is essentially as powerful as Master Doctor. The difference in Healing Efficiency is only 25pts making it so a food can easily close the gap.

There is no difference between the "Improved" and "Advanced" versions of Heals. Master Doctors have "Advanced" Bacta Toss & Jab, yet there is really no difference in their results. Just as people claim that they can heal for 1000+ pts with "Bacta Toss" because of the amount of Healing Efficiency they have, versus Improved or Advanced versions of those heals.

___________________________________________________________________
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Doctor Tenshi Kyrie Moya
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Moya's Extended Biography (Synopsis)
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn (( RP )) Level 90 Medic
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn   Master Politician // 4444 Reb.Pilot
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Infamous Bria Celebrity! Sorry, no autographs.!
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Support Crew. July 2003 - Feb 2007.
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

antares_Kauri

Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:21 am

#10

TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
those that don't pick it up go "Nerf Doc, they heal too well" which will get ALL of us nerfed, even those who spend the points to master it.

The Jedi are already posting about how doc and medic need nerfs. We all know what happens when a Jedi or a BH calls for nerfs...

antares

|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"

MsNiL

Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:51 am

#11

antares_Kauri wrote:

TenshiHanaKinu wrote:

those that don't pick it up go "Nerf Doc, they heal too well" which will get ALL of us nerfed, even those who spend the points to master it.

The Jedi are already posting about how doc and medic need nerfs. We all know what happens when a Jedi or a BH calls for nerfs...

I have fought a war regarding Jedi Healer 4000 being overpowered. If you mixed pre-pub19 4000 Healwith Defender you get a template that's almost unbeatable.

Instead of transfering the power to Master Healer, they simply nerfed the 4000 line, so now Master Healers are somewhere near Commando or Fencer in usefulness... and people still go 4000 Healer becouse its a must.

Now we have the very same situation with Master Swordman, Master Teras Kasi, 4000 Doctor... so eventually the very same thing WILL happen to Doctor, unless someone can convince them that only master doctors should have that kind of healing.

I dont get why they are so extremely awful in creating balance... This is just like every character in Everquest or World of Warcraft had to have Level 2 Priest to be viable, and everything beyond that was pointless making real Priests meaningless and forgotten.

Why cant they make sure that someone who takes 50% of a profession gets 50% of their power, instead of taking 25% and get 95%. What happened to thoose stimpacks there was so much fuzz about.

--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.

da-bro

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:37 pm

#12

Its a general game design flaw involving all the professions and not just doctor or combat medic.

In a game like SWG, as far as combat goes, there are essentialy 3 areas;

1. Damage
2. Defence
3. Healing

Anything else is trivial.

Now, you will have problems if a template can be built that incorporates (to a high enough level) elements from all 3 areas. If you can heal, then you should be lacking in defence or offence. If you can do alot of damage, you should be lacking in healing or defence. Its the classic rock/paper/scissors scenario that is needed for balance.

Currently it is possible to gain enough skills (via attachments and certain template builds) to be near the high end of the scale in all 3 areas. This is the problem we are seeing here.

There are limited ways to fix this and here are a couple ideas:

1. Increase skill point costs
2. Redistribute the modifiers so that there are just as many as now, but spread out through the whole profession and not just in one column.

Jocelynn [SFR]

Sunfall Rebels Helperbear

Jocelynn - Elder Jedi & Rebel Ace Pilot
Evvosas - Elder Bounty Hunter & Master Pilot

Home Is where the Sun Falls

Vupos

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:57 pm

#13

da-bro wrote:
Its a general game design flaw involving all the professions and not just doctor or combat medic.

In a game like SWG, as far as combat goes, there are essentialy 3 areas;

1. Damage
2. Defence
3. Healing

Anything else is trivial.

Now, you will have problems if a template can be built that incorporates (to a high enough level) elements from all 3 areas. If you can heal, then you should be lacking in defence or offence. If you can do alot of damage, you should be lacking in healing or defence. Its the classic rock/paper/scissors scenario that is needed for balance.

Currently it is possible to gain enough skills (via attachments and certain template builds) to be near the high end of the scale in all 3 areas. This is the problem we are seeing here.

There are limited ways to fix this and here are a couple ideas:

1. Increase skill point costs
2. Redistribute the modifiers so that there are just as many as now, but spread out through the whole profession and not just in one column.

much like TKA defense and IA? I would argee with that, but that essentially destroys dabbling at all which is an important aspect to the SWG gameplay, meaning anything less then master is very kinda useless. This is I guess a good and bad thing, It accomplishes what you desire but limits the amount of diversity possible for a viable template

___________________________________________

"There are some who would consider these M&Ms to be...Unnatural."

Doctor Archive

Thread: Welcome back Heal Wars and goodbye to wookies, master doctors, nonmedic templates.