Doctor Archive
Thread: Modifying the CON system for doctors (New Issue for the List?)
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mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:59 am
#1
I have been a doctor since I started playing this game (well, since I got enogh XP to be one, anyway). I have picked up a number of other professions along the way, but over all of that time, I have always been a master doctor. One thing I have noticed is that being a master doctor makes you a much better combatant. Probably the most obvious aspect of this is the ability to apply buffs. However, there are other skills, such as the ability to heal bleeding, better skill with a stimpack, and the ability to remove adverse states (including poison and disease) that can all be a great help on the battlefield.
Basically, what I've found is that, no matter what combat profession I have selected, my skills with that profession are naturally augmented by my skills as a doctor. In short, doctor paired with just about any combat profession is a deadly combination.
However, I have always been irritated that the CON system (the little dot that appears next to a tagret letting you know how difficult it is) doesn't take my skills as a doctor into account whatsoever. Basically, if I'm buffed, I seek out red cons because they're the only things that are worth my time. Even yellow cons are usually much to weak to bother with. Instead of actually using the CON system, I need to find a target and examine it to see what armor it has and how large the HAMs are in order to determine if I can take on the beastie or not.
Except for being an annoyance, this isn't a terrible thing on the battlefield. However, it can be a real pain when it comes to mission terminals. What missions you can view is based on the difficulty of those missions and your combat skills. Of course, that does not take into account the fact that I'm a master doctor. Therefore, even though my doctor skills allow me to handle tougher missions, I see only simple missions that are not worth my time. Sure, if I were a master of an elite combat profession, I could see more difficult mission but, until I reach that point, all I can get are the same missions any new character would see.
I spent some time as a master doctor/master carbineer so I was able to ignore this issue as the master carbineer status allowed be to grab high end missions. However, I recently gave up my carbineer skills in order to pursue a life as a fencer. Now, at one-handed 4 and a few thousand experience short of Novice Fencer, I can find absolutely no missions that are worth anything to me (the payouts and experience earned are too low). The system ignores the fact that I have 3K HAMs at the time. 
One other point is that, when you include someone (or something in the case of a pet) to your party, the CON system changes to show how difficult targets are based on the average skill of everyone in the group. Once again, this doesn't include the skill of a doctor. Basically, if a Master Doctor joins a group of 3 combatants (none of which is a doctor), I think it's safe to say that the power of that groupis increased drastically. However, if the doctor has no combat skills, the CON system thinks that the group just got weaker and, hence, so do the missions that they can acquire.
Personally, I think this is totally backwards. I noticed it some time ago but, as I was on my way to master carbineer, I just ignored it. Now, however, this issue is staring me right in the face once again. I thought this might be a good addition to the list of issues (which is already a mile long, I know :smileysad
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.Let me know what you think.
MyT_Chicken
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:10 am
#2
I totally have to agree to you. I hear people bragging about soloing all sorts of things, but when those same people get killed by the very creature they just told me they could solo, I kinda just laugh. So basically what he just told me is (just and example)..."I'm a novice BH, I can solo a nest of Enraged Rancors all by my self I dont need a Doctor" so I'm like ok cool, but wait...My little braggy Novice BH just got killed....oh and he wants a Rez.....
/shurg
I agree though that the Con system is a little messed up, but considering the medic/doc field is a Support class, I think it works correctly. I do understand what your saying, but in all honesty I think the con system works fine. You have to remember even as a Master Doc / lvl 4 fencer, that is still a "Noob" profession. So Yes it could use some work, but I think its pretty good for the way its meant to function.
Egri
mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:19 am
#3
MyT_Chicken wrote:
You have to remember even as a Master Doc / lvl 4 fencer, that is still a "Noob" profession.
You're right,the lvl 4 fenceris a "Noob" prefession, but the Master Doc part certainly isn't. The problem I have is that, just last night, I took down 3 mobs with HAMs that measured 4K, 6K, and 8K, respectively, at once. All 3 of them attacking me at the same time, and I came out on top. Sure, I was a bit banged up when it was over, but I didn't even have to use a stimpack. That one fight was worth about 5K one-handed XP to me (maybe a little more, I don't remember now).
However, if I go to a mission terminal, the most difficult missions I can acquire are for spineflaps which have less than 1K HAMs and are worth about 200 experience.
MyT_Chicken
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:46 am
#4
I don't disagree with you. I use to be a Master TK / Master Doc before I switched to my current Doc/BE. The only thing I can suggest to you is just don't do missions. Run around Dath or dant for a few hours. Raid some caves/camps. Just run around killing random things. That of course only matters if XP is what your after. If its money; I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe just take an extended mission run...thats what I use to do. Do the missions then hunt for an extra 10-15 mins before heading back. Money for a Doc is hard enough to get Espcially in my case. I have to support myself buff selling spare resources and buffs. Another thing try running the missions while your not buffed. I know as a Doc you (me) get kinda addicted to buffs like people get addicted to Spice. I do think they should redo the Missions to look at more things then just your Weapon. So maybe thats what needs to be done Vice the con system. /shurg
I do think they should redo the Missions to look at more things then just your Weapon. So maybe thats what needs to be done Vice the con system. /shurgEgri
Syraxen
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:54 am
#5
Completely agree with you, the system for choosing missions in SWG has annoyed me since my very first week in the game and needs changing. I have never been able to get a decent mission that suits my skills ever, i'm master doctor and nearly master carbineer, the carb part has nicely pushed up my missions to an 'almost' acceptable level but with just master doctor and say master brawler which is the last thing i had, it hardly moves it at all.
I know this is a problem with the TK people, my friend who's a master TKA (unless you diddn't know TKA masters are hard as nails) could hardly get decent missions at all, creatures that were so weak they were not worth doing, with novice carb, I got better missions, what's up with that?
There is a solution and its what many people say, go to an advanced planet, such as dantooine, there i can get missions that are more than enough for me to handle or i can pick a lesser one thats about right. This CHOISE is what is needed on other worlds like corellia, this is my home world and i like to hunt here, its just a shame i cant get missions to suit. Its simple to me, make all the worlds the same so you can do what ever mission difficulty you wish, obviously its at your own risk, perhaps add a warning message for the new players or muppets that dont know what they are doing and just want the big cash, unaware of the death awaiting them
The game looks after you too much for my liking, you too often feel thatcondescending tone of the mission terminal in your head going 'oh you cant do that mission, here let me offer you this one insted, now, isnt that better? now be a good little girl and go play with the little kitty cats.' No thanks, I was topickmy owndestiny
mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:55 am
#6
MyT_Chicken wrote:
The only thing I can suggest to you is just don't do missions. Run around Dath or dant for a few hours. Raid some caves/camps. Just run around killing random things. That of course only matters if XP is what your after. If its money; I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe just take an extended mission run...thats what I use to do. Do the missions then hunt for an extra 10-15 mins before heading back. Money for a Doc is hard enough to get Espcially in my case. I have to support myself buff selling spare resources and buffs. Another thing try running the missions while your not buffed. I know as a Doc you (me) get kinda addicted to buffs like people get addicted to Spice.
Egri
Yeah, this is very similar to what I am doing now. As a matter of fact, I really don't care about the money right now - I'm just after the XP. Therefore, I can just bomb around and hunt whatever I see. The only problem with this is that, from time to time, it can be difficult to find anything at all.
Also, in the past, I've used the mission terminals to help me hunt specific creatures. If herbivore meat on Naboo is good, I'd go to the mission terminals and pick up Bolle Bol missions so that I could harvest a lot of the meat. Just last night I was out killing Bolle Bols. However, as the system is now, you've got to be one heck of a fighter in order to pull missions like that. In this case, it isn't the money I'm after, but the meat and, with the system as it is, it severely hinders my ability to get it.
However, you make a good point - I've talked about a lot of the creatures I've been killing with my paltry one-handed 4 skills (Bolle Bols, etc). Rest assured, I was fully buffed for all of these fights. Without my doctor skills, there's no way I'd be able to take them down. But that's kinda what I'm getting at - the terminals and the CON system, in general, only takes into account my combat skills. At one-handed 4, I'm a wimp. However, give me full buffs and, even at one-handed 4, I'm no longer a wimp. It would be nice if the system could take that into account.
Traigus
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:57 am
#7
This isn't on the list, but it is being discussed across all professions. there are a bunch of support skills that don't affect CON (or mission terminal levels).
It isn't just the medical people.
Weird stuff happens allover.
If I'm CL 17 ,and group w/ my level 10 pet and a droid, my CL drops like a rock.
-T
It isn't just the medical people.
Weird stuff happens allover.
If I'm CL 17 ,and group w/ my level 10 pet and a droid, my CL drops like a rock.
-T
Zarlor
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:45 am
#8
I agree that we see lots of funky things with the Con system, but including support skills into the Con mix might be just asking for something that would make the Con formulas just that much more complex and it may just not be possible without a LOT of extra work.
Personally I think the biggest place where this really has the most impact is in mission selection. I think that part of the problem, at least, could easily be rectified if they just allowed us some leeway in changing what our mission levels our. We already do that now by asking folks to group with us while we get out mission, then we all go our solo or sub-group merry way to our now higher-level missions that we feel more properly gives us a challenge for our fully fleshed out skill set. I'm not too sure that getting the Con formula changed is all that possible, though.
MatchstickNaritus
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:05 pm
#9
What I do to compensate is do mission on "tough" planets like Dantooine or Dathomir. Regardless of my skill the easiest mission I can get is typically above 30 in difficulty.
And I also think that it should be more than skill based in consideration.
Whether I'm a doctor or not (like when I buff up my alt to have him go hunting) if I've got 3200/3200/1100 HAM and 80% Composite on... I'm freakin' tough. CL level should be fairly fluid based on those factors.
mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:27 pm
#10
Zarlor wrote:
I agree that we see lots of funky things with the Con system, but including support skills into the Con mix might be just asking for something that would make the Con formulas just that much more complex and it may just not be possible without a LOT of extra work.
Like I said in the original post, the CON system is more or less just a nuisance. If I need to look for Red Cons just to get a good fight, that's fine. I don't really care. However, it was my impression that the system that determines how a creature CONs to you is the same system that determines what missions you can pull from a terminal. Perhaps they're not.
Maybe I should have titled the post differently because my biggest point of contention is with the mission terminals, not so much the Con system. I guess I just assumed they both operate on the same system.
Of course, I can always go to a tougher planet and get missions there, but that isn't really the point. If I want to hunt Bolle Bols on Naboo because the herbivore meat is great there, and if I am quite capable of taking them down (even if I am just a Novice Carbineer or whatever), I should be able to get those missions.
Basically, what I'm saying is that my buffs are my best weapon when I'm fighting (they were when I was a Master Carbineer, too) yet they're not accounted for when it comes to getting missions.
Zarlor
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:38 pm
#11
I think you're probably right, they are probably the same. I'm just not certain how possible it is to change that system in a way that would make the benefits worthwhile in comparison to the development costs to recode that. The Devs seem to think in those terms a LOT.
Which is why, since I also agree that mission terminals tends to be the point where this issue has the most impact on us, I suggest that we be allowed to actually select what level we would like our missions to be instead of using the "group with everything in sight" workaround that many of us tend to do now.
mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:42 pm
#12
Zarlor wrote:
Which is why, since I also agree that mission terminals tends to be the point where this issue has the most impact on us, I suggest that we be allowed to actually select what level we would like our missions to be instead of using the "group with everything in sight" workaround that many of us tend to do now.
To me, that would be a great solution. In this way, the devs could entirely avoid recalculating the Con equation. However, they might want to include some indication that a given mission is above their "suggested" level. For example, if I can currently pull difficulty 10 missions, perhaps I can select missions with difficulty level 30, but they'll show up in red or some such thing.
mcglonec
Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:05 pm
#13
Skill points used would be a nice idea except for the fact that you can spend a whole lot of skill points on artisan professions like droid engineer or tailor. Certainly, suchskills don't give you any edge in combat.
Obviously, this issue is by no means a game-breaker and there are other things I'd like to see addressed first. However, I thought this might be a good candidate to add to the list of issues.
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