Doctor Archive

I'm more of a mind to say that it would be more appropriate to have only 2 or 3 EPs taking the medu use down 1 level (so 92-93 on the Secondaries). 20-60 on power may not seem like a lot, but even at just 20 points of power for a Master Doc that's 40 extra points on the low end when applied.50 extra with +25 clothing. That gives a range of 40-120, or 50-150, extra on the final application and that's only at what you suggest you are seeing with only 1 EP being lost to lowering Med Use. If we look at something like a loss of 60 on the base that's a range of 120-360 (or 150-450 with clothing). Nothing to sneeze at, if you ask me.

Plus it still leaves a market for D level enhances. I think if the whole line is leveled out then those who want to work on specific templates can easily do so based on the kind of buff they would like to be able to use. The above numbers would abviously be reduced at less that Master level and with the chance that we will have rebuff abilities in the works Master Doc Buffing will still pull pretty far ahead of the pack. I think. But I never got word back on that suggestion wih the Devs. Likely they are just oo busy doing vehicles and the publish right now.

Well I just wanted to say that none of the classes in the game have their best skills at master box... master box is usualyl a very well put bonus.

Now a doc might not be able to make his own enhance ds, but if he is knowledgable enough he should be able to use em.. ( 0430) (0340) (2220) (2220) etc..

so wouldnt spreading out those med use points be a good way for more variety .. and dabblers will still have a hard time.. same thing goes with pharm3... im suggesting the anti ch dabble thing here...

I dont think doc is a prfession that can be dabbled anyway... U need master medic and then almost half the doc skills.. and i wouldnt want to call this dabbling... im a 0430 doc.. this move of devs have really hurt me... The med uses were too low.. maybe thyre good now maybe thyre not...

Im begging some docs to get em to make enhance cs... not much docs like to make enhance cs for some reason...

Seems like everyone wants the benifit of a class without using all the skill pointsso they canmake a "super" character. You can choose many classes and be well rounded or you can master some and reap all of the benifits of being a master. There has to be a reason to master a skill, period.

I believe if the devs are raising the med use on enhance packs to 90+ for the decent ones...then med use skill tapes should work again..because thats absolutely the most stupid thing i have ever heard....u pay 45k points of medical experiance to be certified to actually enhance one's stats....now you have to go completely to master to buff yourself decently...thats retarded. I say med use + items should be useable again...since the devs raised the med use by 20 points....

Nyvoe

~Teras Kasi Artist 4/2/3/4, Doctor 0/2/0/0~

Zarlor,

Let me see if I'm reading you right -- those numbers seem a bit high to me.

You write, "20-60 on power may not seem like a lot, but even at just 20 points of power for a Master Doc that's 40 extra points on the low end when applied.50 extra with +25 clothing. That gives a range of 40-120, or 50-150, extra on the final application".

Now, in my experience, the low end of buffs comes in at about a 1.25:1 ratio to rated power (my 884 power packs hit for lows of around 1100 -- at master doc, with +25 clothing and a 110 med droid), and the high end comes in at something like 3.75:1 (I've hit for around 3300 afew times). So, using those numbers, 20 extra points of power would yield 25 extra points at the low end, 75 at the high end. Are you factoring in the additional wound treatment points earned at master doc as well? That might explain why I don't see numbers like yours...

Further, I've noticed that experiementation on ease of use will sometimes lower it by more than one point per point of experiementation used. So, although I've never tried it of course, it might take 4 points to lower med use from 96 to 90, not 6.

Sure, the sort of difference that I'm talking about is nothing to sneeze at -- numerically -- but it is hardly as big a difference when you think about it in terms of what one experiences while playing. A 500 point difference on health or action might keep you alive for an extra hit, which is noticeable, but the same extra 500 points on one of the secondaries is a lot harder to "see". Even if I buff myself with B or C packs, my pistol specials start showing up as taking 8 mind every time I fire (meaning that's my highest HAM cost, instead of the 45 or 50 action I use unbuffed), and I regenerate pretty fast... For that matter, can anyone honestly say that they notice a difference between the regeneration rate with a 3k constitution buff and a (mere) 2k buff without using a stopwatch?

As it is now, the difference between Master Doc buffs and med use 90 buffs isn't nearly significant enough. Why? Well, because of the variability. Sure my buffs will be better in the long run, but on any given set there is a fairly high probability that they won't be. I really don't think a slight decrease in buff power for non-masters would be a bad thing... Especially on the secondaries.

Not that I need anymore enhancement business -- got plenty of that. But with this sort of change I'd at least stop getting ten requests a day to make 90-use D packs for people... (Why would I ever want to do that? Then they could just cut into my market...)

Alright, enough rambling. Andto all the people on this thread who've said something along the lines "If I can't use Ds I can't buff myself" -- go try a C. They rock. And they don't take 6 subcomponents.

Yup, buff re-education.

/grin

Ledao Bohi, Valcyn

Yeah, I was just figureing it at Master Doc, where you should see a +100% gain... or maybe not. To tell you the truth the variability has me all screwed up on trying to figure out the exact formula.

I'd like to say that the minimum buff is determined by base power * (wound treatment mod * applicable med rating). With my numbers, this yields 884 * (1.25*1.10) = 12155, but I know it to be lower than that, and can't for the life of me figure out why.

And, I suppose computer programmers all know too much higher mathto use anything as simple as this

It seems to me that most people who are advocating med use in the 90's are doing it out of greed, they don't want the competition, then there is another group that keeps stating that there is no benefit to being master doc except for D's.

The fact is that what you guys call a "dabbler" some one who has spent 105 pts (73 mster med 32 doc) out of his total 250. ( 0 3 4 0 or 0 4 3 0) can not craft anything. He has to buy all his meds from a master doc.He can't heal poisen or disease. (and if he is 0 3 4 0 he can't even revive his buds) His heal bonus is at least 25 pts worse than master doc and he is considerably slower too. Of the 105 pts he has spent14 pts on a skill that he will never use (the crafting line in medic). and now you are saying that they should not be able to use the enhance D's because god forbid you can't make as much money if people can buff themselves. (FYI people buying buffs will always go to a master doc over a non master, even if master is a little bit more expensive, oh and least you have forgoten the non master has buy his buff packsfrom the master).

I don't know about you but 105 pts does not seem to me to be "dabbler".

Now is med use76 to lowprobably,the med useshould corespond to the appropriate box which has always been onebox lower than theone to craft it. Sohealth and action should be in the 70's and secondariesshould be in the 80's. If that is incongrous thena compromise of low 80's for all D's would seem fair.

Now if there is a problem with changing the formula for some wierd coding reason why don't the devs just add 5 more med use to novice doc andthe first lvl of Doctor Medicine knowlege to makeeach +10 which would in essense lower the current med use of 93 to 83. At which point to get a med use of 80 would require 2 or 3 pts of experimentation which means according to caluculations in this trhead that final buffs would be lowered by 100to 250 on average.

Finnaly I think it would be only fair to have a definate response to this issue. I would really appreciate it if the Developers made a decision and told us about it, It has now been a month, this is a central issue to the profession and I don't think it is unreasonable for them to say, "The med use will be ____ we don't know when we will be able to fix it but we expect it to take ____ weeks) Is that too much to ask!!!!

Ahh, yes Cathail -- 1215.5 was what I meant. Perhaps I should read my posts before I submit them . Yeah, perhaps it is something like a range of 0.9 - 3 times that number. I've never had a buff below 1100 with these packs, so I don't think it goes all the way down to 0.5 though.

Clap clap, nice post ShouldStudy!

I think people have lost sight of the main problem. Instead of developing new content, SOE is simply making stuff harder. It's always enlightening to walk a mile in another's shoes. I wish the people praising the med use nerf would do this. Here's how:

Imagine for a moment that it is a few months down the road and SOE decided that elite elite professions was the way to keep players interested. They decide that the current buff situation is too easy for players. Clearly, players must be motivated to use A and B level buffs.

So they introduce the Enhancer profession, which pre-reqs Master Doctor. But instead of making this profession interesting or new, they'll simply take away C and D level buffs from Master Doctors. They re-raise the Med Use levels on buff packsand for every box up the Enhancer tree, you gain +1 to med use (nothing else). You are only allowed to use D level buffs at Master Enhancer and only allowed to craft C and D level buffs at Master Enhancer.

Oh, and to make sure no pre-existing buff packs screw up this brilliant plan, they'll introduce a one-week expiration date on all meds, including all stims, rez kits, and state cures. Retroactive, of course, and not a single mention beforehand. And yes, this is as much of a pain as it sounds.

The good news is that if the doctors all band together, this change can be reversed. The bad news is that the doctors had to havebanded together back in November when they first started fiddling with Med Use. Too late now,because Med Use is unfixable, all future complaintswill be ignored. Oh well, thems is the breaks. So all the sheep that stick around will be forced to specialize in buffs and cannot do anything else in the game. Except stand around and buff people. Wowie. Great fun! And when you get bored with that, you get to craft more buffs! Yay. Whoopie. But at least with the decreased competition, you can now charge 8k for a set of buffs.

Avra and should study,

Although your posts are well thought, I have to disagree with the notion master docs dont want competition. Shouldstudy even said players prefer buffs from a master doc. I think the med use puts more of an emphasis on being a master doc, the way all professions should have been created.

jpsHomie, which would you rather have:

A) non-Master Docs prevented from using their Enhance D packs (no other change)

B) Master Docs gets increase to buff consistency (no other change)

Scenario A is subtractive... it gives a player subset a perceived perk by hurting other players. Ifsubtractive modificationis supported by players, then logically this leads to bad situations down the road, such as the elite elite Enhancer nerf I suggested.

Scenario B is additive... it gives the Master Doc subset an actual perk and does not harm existing players. It also improves and adds value to the game.

We need to make clear to the devs which directionis preferred. Are we a noble profession of selfless doctors, or are we a bunch of greedy sadistic pigs?

Oops, forum hamsters ate my hyperlink to the buff consistency post:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=doctor&message.id=23554