Doctor Archive
Thread: CU about to start on public TC... Medical profession details here
trueistrue1 wrote:
I dont like it, when this goes live ill try it but im prety sure im done with SWG
<--- has already cancelled this doc account.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. SOE common practice of adding one thing and breaking fifty has caught up with them. Instead of admitting a train (well, train wreck) of errors they see the need to reinvent the whole system. Let's face it folks, if they couldn't get the old one to work to THEIR satisfaction in a year, does this stand much of a chance? Nah. This goes beyond window dressing. They broke the window and added a new one...complete with sliding door. We can all admit there were major problems with combat. I will never deny that my main toon -- master rifleman -- was incredibly overpowered. But why, in the name of all that is holy in the Force, mess with the healing professions? Nerf the power of buffs, great. Increase the time needed between heals (even though they JUST shortened them), okay. Make it so advanced meds require additives from BE's (a la Chef), wonderful. But, do not ruin a perfectly serviceable profession!
Some docs liked crafting. They'll no doubt jump to BE. Some docs liked buffing. That's dead now. Some docs liked healing and rezing in combat. Largely overkill now. We're left with a profession more useless than words can muster. While I'm thrilled with many of the changes being made in this long-long-long-long-overdue CURB, the doctor profession has been ruined. Those of us who spent countless hours working as docs, and those of us who spent million and millions of credits buying resources/SEA's, have been slapped in the face.
So, no more bitching. The account is already closed. I opened him to take on shipwright, then JTL bombed with the force of the Death Star exploding. I turned him into a doc for PVP, then SOE pull this. My cute little Ithy Adu thanks SOE for nothing, moving on...
MyT_Chicken wrote:
You know what.....thanks, you just got my blood a pumping.....
There are many people like me, however....A lot of people in this profession *DO* "Sell....Buffs". And it really makes my blood boil to even think about that "Scenario".
On one hand I understand what the "Devs"might have said in this hypothetical scenario. I mean the GP knows "Doctors" (And I use that term ***EXTREMELY*** losely) as "Sell....Buffs". But not all Doctor, infact not even 5% of the ***REAL*** Doctors that play are like that. Because us ***REAL*** Doctors realize that "Sell...Buffs" is not a good cash turn around in most cases.
So in this hypothetical scenario the "Devs" just basically said to me....hypothetically speaking of course that (And I knowthis isn't aDoctor analogy)"All Entertainers play AFK.....because that's what we are known for"......WHAT! Are you kidding me!!! Just because you can....doesn't me we ARE / WERE / WILL BE playing AFK 24/7days a WEEK...Botting and Selling!
I DO NOT, NEVER HAVE, and NEVER WILL BE A BUFF BOT or MERCHANT DOC. Hypothetically speaking of course...I mean because this scenerio never happened.
I am an All Around Doctor....."The Doctor" in this game....and I'm not going to change myself just because some Jerk can AFK grind my profession, buff people AFK with a FREAKING MACRO and ruinwhat"The Doctors"have worked hard for. Hypothetically speaking you can't base a whole profession on the retardedness (Don't even think thats a word)of a group of jerks,griefers, and AFKers!
So now that we have that scenerio out of the way...*Deep breath*...Here is what I think about the changes.
"The Doctor" play style really isn't lost **as long as** you are willing to give up something in return. BE no longer requires any Scout...only Medical Crafting, so technically "The Doctor" playstyle isn't really lost. Technically we can still craft, sell, buff if we keep "The Doctor" template. But as I said we have to give upa Master Profession to do so. I mean it won't do much good but I believe you can pike up Master Brawler or Marksman....I haven't done the math, so I dunno.
I can deal with the "magic healing" as long as I can be a healer...which is what I consider myself as....I'm not a Crafter and I'm not really a buffer. I like the CU, I think it will be very good for the game. I think it will be fun, and I don't think anything will really be lost because we can't craft any more. .
I don't think it's intended, but your posts almost read like you hold crafters in contempt...
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Are you kidding me? I mean seriously....Heal faster and a little bit more?? Thats it..
I'm sorry man but the skills we get I will use. Just like today. I'm probably the only doctor that likes to use /quickheal just because It's an awesome skill. Heal faster?? We can revive, buff, cure states, basically do everything that we can do today.....the only thing we can't do is CRAFT. So how is Master Medic going to out perform Master Doctor?
It wont....it never has, and it never will. The CU is putting us back to "how the profession was intended" state...before everyone figured out how to cheat, and frankly I don't care what you all think about it, with macro's and tumblers. We will now be a usefull addition to any group...1 person or 20 people... We aren't losing any ability....CRAFTING is not an ability.
Message Edited by MyT_Chicken on 03-30-2005 01:33 PM
TarMangani wrote:
I don't think it's intended, but your posts almost read like you hold crafters in contempt...
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Are you kidding me? I mean seriously....Heal faster and a little bit more?? Thats it..
I'm sorry man but the skills we get I will use. Just like today. I'm probably the only doctor that likes to use /quickheal just because It's an awesome skill. Heal faster?? We can revive, buff, cure states, basically do everything that we can do today.....the only thing we can't do is CRAFT. So how is Master Medic going to out perform Master Doctor?
It wont....it never has, and it never will. The CU is putting us back to "how the profession was intended" state...before everyone figured out how to cheat, and frankly I don't care what you all think about it, with macro's and tumblers. We will now be a usefull addition to any group...1 person or 20 people... We aren't losing any ability....CRAFTING is not an ability.
No not in contempt...All I'm saying is if you want to be a crafter...be a crafter. And that is what the devs...did or did not say in a scenario that didn't ever happen. Doctors can have the best of all worlds...so they are changing it so you can either be a crafter....or a healer....or both....but not at the same time without sacrificing somethin in return.
I like crafting, got no problem doing it, but I'm not gonna get all worked up because I can't do it anymore. And I guess I just don't understand why other people are. If you wanna craft then do that....if you wanna heal do that....If you wanna do both....then do both with the understanding that you won't be able to do much else. BE isn't getting much in the way of healer crafts that we need...they are getting heal crafts that everyone else needs.
Exactly...."Hypotheticaly Speaking" of course.
TarMangani wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
This is kind of confusing, but it sounds like you're slamming crafting docs that sell and are merchants.
That stuff never happened...I don't know what your talking about.
Edit dunno why it didn't quote you
You know what.....thanks, you just got my blood a pumping.....
There are many people like me, however....A lot of people in this profession *DO* "Sell....Buffs". And it really makes my blood boil to even think about that "Scenario".
On one hand I understand what the "Devs"might have said in this hypothetical scenario. I mean the GP knows "Doctors" (And I use that term ***EXTREMELY*** losely) as "Sell....Buffs". But not all Doctor, infact not even 5% of the ***REAL*** Doctors that play are like that. Because us ***REAL*** Doctors realize that "Sell...Buffs" is not a good cash turn around in most cases.
So in this hypothetical scenario the "Devs"
The way this reads, the hypothetical starts in the 3rd paragraph. The top two paragraphs sound like opinion
However, I just re-read the original post and from the looks of it, you're referring to the original poster's hypothetical and expanding on it? Makes sense now...
Darksfallen wrote:
Esrina wrote:
In my inventory now I've got two sets of buffs (one average and one really high), wound meds, disease and poison cures and enhancements, stims and a rez kit. Not to mention the Bivoli and Brandy to go with it. That's 26 items plus the six crates of more buffs which are in my droid. Getting rid of all that stuff is going to free up a TON of inventory space. How does giving us one tool to use for healing even compare to what we carry around now?
Very true, but here's how I see it.
Force everyone in the game to have an item at all times to heal. (even if they don't want it)
Or allow the people in the game that DO want to be restricted to having that item to simply invent something for themself. (have a friend Artisan create a surveying tool and name it "Medical Supplies."
I see the latter as being the more friendly answer as you can RP how you want.
You're not seeing where our objections to ability based healing are coming from. It's not a role playing thing. It goes beyond that. It's not just about having an item in my inventory. It's about the healing coming from technology rather than magic. There needs to be an item that actually impacts healing ability. Making some generic item with a different name doesn't change the fact that the healing is coming out of thin air and that all master docs heal the same.A craftable item with stats that factor into the healing is a way of differentiating one healer's abilities from another's. Under the new system, the only differentiation will be the enhancers. I equate the enhancers to weapon powerups. If all weapons had the same stats and only powerups were varied, would there really beenough difference to matter? A craftable item is also the link between healing and the player economy. The economy is one of my favorite unique features in SWG. The CU will basically limit it to being a weapons and armor market.
The magic healing takes items and character ability out of the equation and makes healing dependent only on player ability. That would be fine for a FPS, but it's not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. If I was looking for that, I'd have many games from which to choose. As someone who loves the current SWG healing system, I am left with nowhere to go.
Obata wrote:
You're not seeing where our objections to ability based healing are coming from. It's not a role playing thing. It goes beyond that. It's not just about having an item in my inventory. It's about the healing coming from technology rather than magic. There needs to be an item that actually impacts healing ability. Making some generic item with a different name doesn't change the fact that the healing is coming out of thin air and that all master docs heal the same.A craftable item with stats that factor into the healing is a way of differentiating one healer's abilities from another's. Under the new system, the only differentiation will be the enhancers. I equate the enhancers to weapon powerups. If all weapons had the same stats and only powerups were varied, would there really beenough difference to matter? A craftable item is also the link between healing and the player economy. The economy is one of my favorite unique features in SWG. The CU will basically limit it to being a weapons and armor market.
The magic healing takes items and character ability out of the equation and makes healing dependent only on player ability. That would be fine for a FPS, but it's not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. If I was looking for that, I'd have many games from which to choose. As someone who loves the current SWG healing system, I am left with nowhere to go.
I know exactly where the view is coming from. You are not understand where the Devs are coming from. It's assumed to be technology, a physical representation (items with charges)is not necessary in the scope of the game.
Tell me this: Would you be happy with a single indestructible item in your inventory that the Devs put in that says "Everything you need to have to heal and more Kit"? Sure you craft it yourself, it has stats and so on.
SWG economy is jacked. Mostly by Docs, no one can dispute that. No one wants to be under our thumb anymore.
Weapons and armor market? What about cloths? Food? Drink? Buildings, Art? Couches and chairs? Ships? Swoops?
Will Docs ever be able to make the money that they made before this again? No, and good riddance.
Message Edited by Darksfallen on 03-30-2005 02:29 PM
MyT_Chicken wrote:
We aren't losing any ability....CRAFTING is not an ability.
I don't think it's intended, but your posts almost read like you hold crafters in contempt...
I like crafting, got no problem doing it, but I'm not gonna get all worked up because I can't do it anymore. And I guess I just don't understand why other people are. If you wanna craft then do that....if you wanna heal do that....If you wanna do both....then do both with the understanding that you won't be able to do much else. BE isn't getting much in the way of healer crafts that we need...they are getting heal crafts that everyone else needs.
Considering you've read nearly every post in the other threads, I'm surprised you would say this, even with your justification in red...
From your other posts, it sounds as if you're focus has been healer, thus the CU is very appealing to your style of play. I for one enjoyed all three aspects of doctor, crafting, buffing and healing, and I don't want to give any of them up. Not saying buffing shouldn't be changed, it should, and I can live with that. However I also run a business as a doctor and am one of those who has millions tied up in resources that, based on the factMD's won't use components, are going to tank after the CU, mostly because the medical profession isn't going to use much in the way of components...(which silences all those who said the resources would convert directly to healing components, doesn't it? Or did I read it wrong...).
So I for one am upset about losing crafting because it takes away 1/3 of my profession, and in order to maintain it, I have to sacrifice a part of my Elite professions SP.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
TarMangani wrote:
I don't think it's intended, but your posts almost read like you hold crafters in contempt...
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Are you kidding me? I mean seriously....Heal faster and a little bit more?? Thats it..
I'm sorry man but the skills we get I will use. Just like today. I'm probably the only doctor that likes to use /quickheal just because It's an awesome skill. Heal faster?? We can revive, buff, cure states, basically do everything that we can do today.....the only thing we can't do is CRAFT. So how is Master Medic going to out perform Master Doctor?
It wont....it never has, and it never will. The CU is putting us back to "how the profession was intended" state...before everyone figured out how to cheat, and frankly I don't care what you all think about it, with macro's and tumblers. We will now be a usefull addition to any group...1 person or 20 people... We aren't losing any ability....CRAFTING is not an ability.
No not in contempt...All I'm saying is if you want to be a crafter...be a crafter. And that is what the devs...did or did not say in a scenario that didn't ever happen. Doctors can have the best of all worlds...so they are changing it so you can either be a crafter....or a healer....or both....but not at the same time without sacrificing somethin in return.
I like crafting, got no problem doing it, but I'm not gonna get all worked up because I can't do it anymore. And I guess I just don't understand why other people are. If you wanna craft then do that....if you wanna heal do that....If you wanna do both....then do both with the understanding that you won't be able to do much else. BE isn't getting much in the way of healer crafts that we need...they are getting heal crafts that everyone else needs.
As I see it, the medical professions in this game were intended to be hybrids -- to have their viability in the field directly related to their skill in crafting.
We (Docs, Medics, and CMs) have never been "crafters", in the strict sense in which Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths are crafters, because we are ourselves the primary (and in some cases only) market for our products. (And, as a corollary, because our products provide us with direct benefits,insofar as we areDoctors and Combat Medics, whereas Armor and Weapons only provide a benefit insofar as one is a combatant)
The current separation between "crafting docs", "buffing docs", and "field docs" exists due to other problems with the game (i.e. the ease of mass-production, the rediculous affordability of high-quality crafted goods, etc.) -- go back to 2003, and the separation wasn't there. Before mass-production became viable, being an effective Doc was an outgrowth of being an able crafter -- if you couldn't hack it, you wouldn't be very effective... And superior skill in sourcing resources and components had an impact on combat viability.
And so, I feel that giving us "magic-based" skills is a disservice to our profession on a number of fronts. It removes the primary outlet for player skill, and it makes little to no sense within the game's context...
[An interesting parallel to this would be the magic system used in Asheron's Call 1 -- spells had to be learned, and the formulae were individualized. So become a more powerful mage involved both leveling up, and researching to learn new and more powerful spells. Doing one without the other would leave you at a disadvantage... Which made gameplay as a mage significantly deeper than gameplay as a fighter, at least until the individualization formula was cracked and posted on the web... Again, I can't even express my disappointment that instead of trying to preserve this diversity in gameplay, SOE is simply wiping out one of the most interesting relationships in the game.]
Obata wrote:
You're not seeing where our objections to ability based healing are coming from. It's not a role playing thing. It goes beyond that. It's not just about having an item in my inventory. It's about the healing coming from technology rather than magic. There needs to be an item that actually impacts healing ability. Making some generic item with a different name doesn't change the fact that the healing is coming out of thin air and that all master docs heal the same.A craftable item with stats that factor into the healing is a way of differentiating one healer's abilities from another's. Under the new system, the only differentiation will be the enhancers. I equate the enhancers to weapon powerups. If all weapons had the same stats and only powerups were varied, would there really beenough difference to matter? A craftable item is also the link between healing and the player economy. The economy is one of my favorite unique features in SWG. The CU will basically limit it to being a weapons and armor market.
The magic healing takes items and character ability out of the equation and makes healing dependent only on player ability. That would be fine for a FPS, but it's not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. If I was looking for that, I'd have many games from which to choose. As someone who loves the current SWG healing system, I am left with nowhere to go.
But you do understand that items are still based on skill and knowledge...Right? To make the uber stuff you have to know what your looking for, what to experiment on, and how to actually use it at the right time. The current system is based on Player Skill + Items. There really is no difference IMO.
It's not easy to be a healer....it really isn't, there are a lot of things people don't think about when they base skill on an item. For instance, any joe can get and use a Uber DOT Weapon....and run around claiming they are "god". So I duel them to prove a point...stomp them into the ground, and walk away. What did I just prove? Skill is not based on an item, its based onthe player.
I hate those people that tell me "No Healing" when they challenge me to a fight. Sorry, but I spent points on "Healing" and I'm gonna use it, don't like it then don't talk crap just because you have a 500+ Mind Fire Weapon that I can cure in 2 hits with a blanket and then smash your face in with my pikes.
I agree, Our items set us apart for other players....but even with items you had to have skill to back up what you were saying. People often make the mistake of using Firstaid when they should have used Cure Disease. Why becausesome peopleuse a "heal all" macro, and they don't stop to think about it. Point is our profession takes skill to actually "master". Items or no items it still takes skill.
Darksfallen wrote:
Obata wrote:
You're not seeing where our objections to ability based healing are coming from. It's not a role playing thing. It goes beyond that. It's not just about having an item in my inventory. It's about the healing coming from technology rather than magic. There needs to be an item that actually impacts healing ability. Making some generic item with a different name doesn't change the fact that the healing is coming out of thin air and that all master docs heal the same.A craftable item with stats that factor into the healing is a way of differentiating one healer's abilities from another's. Under the new system, the only differentiation will be the enhancers. I equate the enhancers to weapon powerups. If all weapons had the same stats and only powerups were varied, would there really beenough difference to matter? A craftable item is also the link between healing and the player economy. The economy is one of my favorite unique features in SWG. The CU will basically limit it to being a weapons and armor market.
The magic healing takes items and character ability out of the equation and makes healing dependent only on player ability. That would be fine for a FPS, but it's not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. If I was looking for that, I'd have many games from which to choose. As someone who loves the current SWG healing system, I am left with nowhere to go.
I know exactly where the view is coming from. You are not understand where the Devs are coming from. It's assumed to be technology, a physical representation (items with charges)is not necessary in the scope of the game.
I've been discussing this with the devs directly for weeks. I think I know exactly where they are coming from. They just want to attract the players who play fantasy MMORPG healers and are used to casting spells rather than healing with technology. It's that simple.
Tell me this: Would you be happy with a single indestructible item in your inventory that the Devs put in that says "Everything you need to have to heal and more Kit"? Sure you craft it yourself, it has stats and so on.
No. I'm all for reducing the number of items drastically. But They have to be consumable, linked to the resource market (meaning player craftable) and they have to directly affect the healer's effectiveness.
SWG economy is jacked. Mostly by Docs, no one can dispute that. No one wants to be under our thumb anymore.
Yes, it is jacked, but don't blame the docs. It was really credit dupes and exploits like solo groups that killed the economy.
Weapons and armor market? What about cloths? Food? Drink? Buildings, Art? Couches and chairs? Ships? Swoops?
I'll give you food and drink, but the rest is essentially (if not actually) indestructable or looted.
Will Docs ever be able to make the money that they made before this again? No, and good riddance.
I don't care about the money. Seriously, I don't give a damn how much money I can or can't make. However, I think it's incredibly rude of you to answetr those who are concerned about a lose of income with "good riddance".