Doctor Archive
Thread: TC notes are up
Envoy3113
Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:45 am
#53
Social mobs will aggro attackers, I have seen many a time when someone on the fringe of the fight would have a mob spawn behind them and attack once they see that the person is shooting their lair mate. So it's not just a healer issue. However, the timer on taunt is much to long and area taunt is not effective enough to break heal aggro AS IS on live, not sure if it will prove to much more effective now.
Still, now instead of the medics being the tanks, the riflemen will be tanks. There needs to be an increase to the strength of, or decrease to the timer of taunt for the aggro in game to be controllable. ATM the only effective taunt is dominate mind out of defender and it will only hold if you proceed to attack the mob too.
Gald to see the numbers on the heals, bout time they figured this out.
Vupos
Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:46 am
#54
Lol I'm loving my template even more and more now! I would really like to see if the infusion numbers have increased on this type of scale.
TenshiHanaKinu
Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:47 am
#55
Psychopyro80 wrote:
Well I had a chance to test these out for you and I think you'll like.....
I have Mdoc/MMedic/Mpike
Bacta Toss (Medic/CM) 1290 heal
Bacta Jab (Doctor) 950 - 1100 heal
Bacta Shot (Medic/Doctor) 1550 - 1625 heal
Bacta Spray (Medic/CM) 890 - 1050 heal
Bacta Infusion (Doc) - No Test..but if the above numbers are any indication.
Reuse times are much faster, and mind cost is much less. Also I think the agro drop was closer to 60 or 70 percent and not 50 as stated. I had a hard time drawing agro just healing (when I whip out the kick stick I had no trouble getting agro though) the group..
These tests were WITHOUT using enhancers......just imagine if you had them
I'm going to cry.... It's ... so beautiful.
AlmightyBob
Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:17 am
#56
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Psychopyro80 wrote:
Well I had a chance to test these out for you and I think you'll like.....
I have Mdoc/MMedic/Mpike
Bacta Toss (Medic/CM) 1290 heal
Bacta Jab (Doctor) 950 - 1100 heal
Bacta Shot (Medic/Doctor) 1550 - 1625 heal
Bacta Spray (Medic/CM) 890 - 1050 heal
Bacta Infusion (Doc) - No Test..but if the above numbers are any indication.
Reuse times are much faster, and mind cost is much less. Also I think the agro drop was closer to 60 or 70 percent and not 50 as stated. I had a hard time drawing agro just healing (when I whip out the kick stick I had no trouble getting agro though) the group..
These tests were WITHOUT using enhancers......just imagine if you had them
I'm going to cry.... It's ... so beautiful.
Oh man... I'll second that.
Psychopyro80
Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:52 am
#57
MasterRevan wrote:Does the master medic you are make the actions heal more?
Yes, Master Medic does affect how much healing you do because of the extra mods in the Master Medic box.
MasterRevan
Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:56 am
#58
Ok, would you recommed dropping an area knockdown to get master medic?
Mejowepra
Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:01 am
#59
This makes me a happy camper. I think I will drop 2000 scout and go from 4040 -> 4440 medic. I have FP locked up in FS skills and with MD/MTKA/4440 medic I have just enough points for 6 full FS lines.
TenshiHanaKinu
Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:06 am
#60
MasterRevan wrote:
Ok, would you recommed dropping an area knockdown to get master medic?
Cm4000 would work about the same also, and give you Defense mods.
Urick
Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:11 am
#61
Is there going to be any difference between novice doc, doc 4/0/0/4, and master doc? Are the timing's different for each special the higher you go?
Mejowepra
Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:59 pm
#62
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Envoy3113 wrote:
Social mobs will aggro attackers, I have seen many a time when someone on the fringe of the fight would have a mob spawn behind them and attack once they see that the person is shooting their lair mate. So it's not just a healer issue. However, the timer on taunt is much to long and area taunt is not effective enough to break heal aggro AS IS on live, not sure if it will prove to much more effective now.
That's not the same issue I'm talking about. What you are describing has been in game forever, and that will probably not change. Thats one of those "hey retard stop attacking so close to the lair" things....It really has nothing to do with us pulling 100% agro from attacking yet undamaged stuff.
The mechanics of the system is fine. Basically every creature in combat has a hate list. Doing an action that directly or indirectly affects the mob, increases the hate. The job of a tank is to build enough hate to avoid the healers getting aggro, and to get it back in case it happens.
Part of the problem is that this is a new concept to SWG and people aren't used to it. I _expect_ to get all aggro from in-combat, but unharmed creature if I heal anything. Their hate list is basically zero and all of a sudden they get a nice chunk of hate from me.. I would also expect 1 point heal to result in 1 point of aggro ("1 point of aggro" being a fixed a mount, whatever it might be). So if I heal for 1500 I get 1500 "agro points" and if I AoE heal using bacta spray, I would get 500 + 400 + 200+ 400 or whatever in aggro.
If a heal aggro's creatures not already engaged with the group, that would be a flaw to me. Also the amount of aggro gained from healing seems excessive (which the devs obviously agreed with considering the P19 changes).
Never the less, if your tank(s) don't do their job, you'll get aggro. I noticed in the grouping I did that people;
- Randomly shoot on whatever they please, instead of concentrating fire (makes it harder for a tank to maintain aggro and slows down the killing)
- Run / try to kite when they get aggro (makes it more or less impossible for the tank to regain aggro and lowers the chances of you getting a heal, especially if the healer is a doctor).
- Generally suck a group play tactics.
Part of the cause is, I think, that people concentrate more on tagging every mob than in taking them down. This of course is part of how the XP-system works, and is probably to be considered a flaw.
MyT_Chicken
Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:32 pm
#63
Mejowepra wrote:
The mechanics of the system is fine. Basically every creature in combat has a hate list. Doing an action that directly or indirectly affects the mob, increases the hate. The job of a tank is to build enough hate to avoid the healers getting aggro, and to get it back in case it happens.
Part of the problem is that this is a new concept to SWG and people aren't used to it. I _expect_ to get all aggro from in-combat, but unharmed creature if I heal anything. Their hate list is basically zero and all of a sudden they get a nice chunk of hate from me.. I would also expect 1 point heal to result in 1 point of aggro ("1 point of aggro" being a fixed a mount, whatever it might be). So if I heal for 1500 I get 1500 "agro points" and if I AoE heal using bacta spray, I would get 500 + 400 + 200+ 400 or whatever in aggro.
If a heal aggro's creatures not already engaged with the group, that would be a flaw to me. Also the amount of aggro gained from healing seems excessive (which the devs obviously agreed with considering the P19 changes).
Never the less, if your tank(s) don't do their job, you'll get aggro. I noticed in the grouping I did that people;
- Randomly shoot on whatever they please, instead of concentrating fire (makes it harder for a tank to maintain aggro and slows down the killing)
- Run / try to kite when they get aggro (makes it more or less impossible for the tank to regain aggro and lowers the chances of you getting a heal, especially if the healer is a doctor).
- Generally suck a group play tactics.
Part of the cause is, I think, that people concentrate more on tagging every mob than in taking them down. This of course is part of how the XP-system works, and is probably to be considered a flaw.
For the sake of repeating myself yet again, I'm going to keep this short.We should not pull agro for undamaged creatures who are attacking the tanks. We do not (Per skill tree's anyways) have an area heal. Combat people do not draw agro from attacking with the tank. As a Doc/Pike if I run up and slap on an Armor Break I do not get agroed by the undamaged mobs. But god forbid I do my job and heal. My point has nothing to do with me, my group, who is in it, how they play, what there template is, what they ate for dinner, if they are married or not, or if they make a million dollars a day..
My point is that Combat people only get "Agro Points" for dealing direct damage to a mob. But Healers are the ***ONLY*** profession in the game to get indirect "Agro Points". No one else has to worry about it. If after repeating myself for two days straight you don't understand my point, I will wait for people to start b!tching about it a few days after the publish and just say "I told you so".
It's obvious to me that many of you are going to have to experience what I'm trying to explain to actually understand it.
Tiphus
Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:39 pm
#64
I wonder how the healing boost is actually implemented. I'd like to see new stats relating actual heals to the healing efficiency levels. I doubt that the heals were doubled, so a 50% relief on aggro is definitely welcome. I manage hate with the best of them. Anyone who thinks a reduction in healer hate is a waste is waste themselves. I will say that I think healer hate should vary from creature to NPC enemies. It makes sense for a st squad to zero in on the healer. A herd of thunes on the other hand should probably leave the healer alone unless he smells bad (i.e wookie, imperial etc.). I can't wait to test it.
MyT_Chicken
Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:57 pm
#65
Tiphus wrote:
I wonder how the healing boost is actually implemented. I'd like to see new stats relating actual heals to the healing efficiency levels. I doubt that the heals were doubled, so a 50% relief on aggro is definitely welcome. I manage hate with the best of them. Anyone who thinks a reduction in healer hate is a waste is waste themselves. I will say that I think healer hate should vary from creature to NPC enemies. It makes sense for a st squad to zero in on the healer. A herd of thunes on the other hand should probably leave the healer alone unless he smells bad (i.e wookie, imperial etc.). I can't wait to test it.
Your right 50% is nice, it will help the other people get mobs off us faster, however we are still going to have people come in here and cry about "I want to be a healer not a combatant". And the problem is because we are the only profession to get indirect agro.
Yes 50% will help, but the second you heal your tank your gonna get agro'ed by everything that hasn't been damaged who is attacking the tank. Which is the problem. It really has nothing to do with how much they reduce agro for us. Because honestly until they fix the indirect agro we get...we are still going to be in the same boat. But then again Healers do have the best Taunt in the game, so atleast that isn't changing.