Doctor Archive
Thread: Bug List (Voting Closed)
1) 11
2) 28
3) 25
4) New**
When placing Enchance packs in the main inventory it blocks the radial menu use for treating wounds. This has been an old issue, and was still current with me as of last week.
1
1
2
2
3
3
5
11
12
28
yes, i voted more times for those first 3 because I believe them to be very very very important and ANNOYING
Well, all that really means is that you actually voted like this:
- 1
- nothing
- 2
- nothing
- 3
- nothing
- 5
- 11
- 12
- 28
Is that what you really wanted to do? Don't forget, not voting for an issue wil give it a chance to fall off onto a list of issues for possible removal. Plus I think you may actually want to improve the scores for 2 and 3 by moving them into the 2 and 3 spot.. The lower on the list the worse their positiong have a change of being.
At any rate, let me know how you want it handled. With no response I'll just do the list I have above.
- 2
- 1
- 5
- 21
- 22
- 24
- 3
- 4
- 6
- 12
NEW (not on this list) ISSUE: Pet enhances disappear when the pet is stored. I don't understand that logic, especially when pets are *poofing* left and right, or getting stuck, and end up having to be stored and re-called just because of other bugs. When they come back, the buff should still be there. This would also fix the presumed exploit of buffing, storing, and then re-buffing pets. (I'm at Master, so have no need to "exploit" anything for XP.)
Discussion:
- Issue #2 (experimentation), which is my first place issue, is even more complex than the explanation of the issue suggests. I've had "moderate successes" actually LOWER the value rather than increase it. I've also had "great successes" not affect the value in question at all. Experimentation seems to be screwed up in more ways than just the issues listed. I also seem to get absolutely no difference in results from my -12 crafting stations than I do from my +12.5 station. In fact, although I haven't documented this, it seems like my +12.5 station gets worse results and more critical failures than my -12 stations do.
- Issue #1, which is my second place issue (enhanced HAM's sticking), has not been solved as far as I can tell, especially with my own enhanced stats. When I've enhanced myself, I often can't see that I'm taking damage at all, and so can get suddenly incapped because I haven't healed myself when my HAM bars all look fine. Also, I'm not sure I'm actually taking damage properly, as I sometimes can be hit several times by a MOB and then, when I /healdamage me, I get the visual of the heals dropping but no indication that I've actually healed any damage on myself. Without doing a Ctrl-C, I can't track my own HAM status, which obviously is impractical duringa battle.
- Issue #5 (enhances dropping on logoff) is even worse than described, because while the enhances disappear, the enhance timer does not get re-set, so someone comes back after logging off for a minute (usually to deal with some bug), and their enhancements are gone, but they cannot be re-buffed. Since my buffs last over 3 hours, this is a HUGE problem. Of course, if we didn't have to log off and back on just to fix some bugged state, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it is now.
Earymi wrote:
[snip]
NEW (not on this list) ISSUE: Pet enhances disappear when the pet is stored.
It's not on this list because it is the #4 issue on the Exploit list. 
Although it is mentione ont eh Enhance Timer on Pets issue on this list (#14).
Discussion:
- Issue #2 (experimentation), which is my first place issue, is even more complex than the explanation of the issue suggests. I've had "moderate successes" actually LOWER the value rather than increase it. I've also had "great successes" not affect the value in question at all. Experimentation seems to be screwed up in more ways than just the issues listed. I also seem to get absolutely no difference in results from my -12 crafting stations than I do from my +12.5 station. In fact, although I haven't documented this, it seems like my +12.5 station gets worse results and more critical failures than my -12 stations do.
The problem is narrowing these things down. Every time something gets mentioned that doesn't seem to be right we are asked to provide details. Some of this stuff is downright intermittent at best. Can you consistently get moderte successes that lower a value? And are you sperimenting wit a single bar that affects multiple stats (in which case one of the Bars may have had a Great Success and improved while you only noticed the bar that failed and got worse, while geting the statement that provided the avearge of the two results that the system actually rolls seperately. (Great success+Failure)/2=Moderate success. The difference in stations tends to only moderately affect a slight reduction in the chances for a crit failure and moderatley increasint eh numbers of great success you might get, in general. (I beleive there was a great post showing these effects on the Architect forum) In order to floow through that you really ahve no difference with those stations we'd have to provide some numbers. Craft 100 items for me and see what happens, keeping track of all the variables and results.
It was noted at one time that some experimentations done,I think on the Artisan forum, showed that negatively rated Tools (not stations, only tools) actually worked better than positively rated ones.
And that is listed inthe issue, but I forgot to link to the artisan post tht showed that. Grrr...
These both seem to me to be describing exactly what those issues state. Is there something unclear in the way I have worded them that would make these clearer?
- Issue #1, which is my second place issue (enhanced HAM's sticking), has not been solved as far as I can tell, especially with my own enhanced stats. When I've enhanced myself, I often can't see that I'm taking damage at all, and so can get suddenly incapped because I haven't healed myself when my HAM bars all look fine. Also, I'm not sure I'm actually taking damage properly, as I sometimes can be hit several times by a MOB and then, when I /healdamage me, I get the visual of the heals dropping but no indication that I've actually healed any damage on myself. Without doing a Ctrl-C, I can't track my own HAM status, which obviously is impractical duringa battle.
- Issue #5 (enhances dropping on logoff) is even worse than described, because while the enhances disappear, the enhance timer does not get re-set, so someone comes back after logging off for a minute (usually to deal with some bug), and their enhancements are gone, but they cannot be re-buffed. Since my buffs last over 3 hours, this is a HUGE problem. Of course, if we didn't have to log off and back on just to fix some bugged state, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it is now.
Zarlor,
First let me say I think you're doing a great job. I hope you haven't taken my comments as criticism -- they certainly weren't intended that way. I was simply trying to explain my position on issues that are important to me.
>>>The problem is narrowing these things down. Every time something gets mentioned that doesn't seem to be right we are asked to provide details. Some of this stuff is downright intermittent at best. Can you consistently get moderte successes that lower a value? And are you sperimenting wit a single bar that affects multiple stats
I haven't done a rigorous experiment on this issue -- and don't really have the time to do it -- but I can say for certain that I only ever experiment on a single bar at a time, so the times I've noticed a "moderate success" actually reducing the value, it hasn't been because I've been experimenting on multiple bars at the same time.
I do understand that the devs need this narrowed down, but candidly, it seems to me that they should be doing that kind of experimentation on their own time. I don't have time to devote an hour of my life to documenting a bug. I apologize if that sounds huffy and unproductive -- but all I can do is post my observations on this one and hope someone who programs for a living can track down why it's happening.
>>>These both seem to me to be describing exactly what those issues state. Is there something unclear in the way I have worded them that would make these clearer?
I think issue #1 is worded fine. I was responding here to the dev response note (and the suggestion in the description of the problem) that this problem has been partially fixed, and trying to elaborate on the extent of the problem. If that's not helpful, please just ignore it.
In issue #5, I don't think the issue of the enhances dropping while the enhance timer stays live was described, but I can't go back to check that now without losing my reply window. If it was, then feel free to ingore my comments on this one as well. I also wanted to suggest, I guess, that I can see some rationale for dropping enhancements on logout if we weren't forced to logout in response to a bug. So if I log out because I want to go shopping, fine -- that's my choice. But if I've just buffed someone, and they have to log out 2 minutes later because something in their char is bugged, and they lose the buff when they come back (plus their buff timer is stuck), then I can see no logic in that.
Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of the voting thread and should have confined my comments to other threads? I don't participate on the message boards all that much because I simply don't have time to keep up with them, so if my comments are getting in the way of you tallying the votes, I apologize again.
just change the order then.
1. 1
2. 2
3. 3
4. 5
5. 11
6. 12
7. 28
just wish i could weight 1 2 and 3 more
Earymi wrote:
Zarlor,
First let me say I think you're doing a great job. I hope you haven't taken my comments as criticism -- they certainly weren't intended that way. I was simply trying to explain my position on issues that are important to me.
Heck no! I don't take stuff like that as negative criticisms, but rather as constructive or clarifying ones. Which is why i post reponses so I can make sure I've got things clear. It's also the main reason between Voting cycles that Ileave all the issues stickied up for discussion. I WANT folks to tell me what might be missing or unclear in my wording.
I haven't done a rigorous experiment on this issue -- and don't really have the time to do it -- but I can say for certain that I only ever experiment on a single bar at a time, so the times I've noticed a "moderate success" actually reducing the value, it hasn't been because I've been experimenting on multiple bars at the same time.
No, no. I'm not talking multiple bars at a time (although it has also been mentioned that using multiple ticks on a single bar actually does that many ticks worth of experiments and provides teh average as your actual success level). I'm talking about a single bar that affects multiple stats. Like how experimenting effectiveness on an enhance affects both duration AND base power.
I do understand that the devs need this narrowed down, but candidly, it seems to me that they should be doing that kind of experimentation on their own time. I don't have time to devote an hour of my life to documenting a bug. I apologize if that sounds huffy and unproductive -- but all I can do is post my observations on this one and hope someone who programs for a living can track down why it's happening.
I hear where you're coming from. But the flip side is that they have 32 professions with bugs and problems all of differing priorities as well as new content and tons of other general game systems that ALL need attention. Narrowing down the specifics is how we can help ourselves. If we can give the information that helps them to narrow down a problem quickly and efficiently then it will get resolved quickly and efficiently. Otherwise they may try to devote some time to it, but if the answer is not readily apparent it is more likely to be put ont eh back burner.
We also have to consider that we sometimes think we see things happening that really aren't happning, or that are simply the anomolies of random number systems. Like someone was thinking on the Medic forums that their stims were WORSE while wearing BE Med-Enhancing clothing. They decided to sit downa nd run the numbers and found out that in fact it was apaprently just an anomoly because their statistics actaully showed that the BE clothing was working, even though he was CONVINCED before doing his test that they were busted. So tht's where part of the problem lies. When is a bug really a bug and when is it just something we think we are seeing? And when is it actually unrealted to what we think it is (like buffs coming in low because of a Low Poer State on our Droids, not because Buffs themselves were nerfed.)
In issue #5, I don't think the issue of the enhances dropping while the enhance timer stays live was described, but I can't go back to check that now without losing my reply window. If it was, then feel free to ingore my comments on this one as well. I also wanted to suggest, I guess, that I can see some rationale for dropping enhancements on logout if we weren't forced to logout in response to a bug. So if I log out because I want to go shopping, fine -- that's my choice. But if I've just buffed someone, and they have to log out 2 minutes later because something in their char is bugged, and they lose the buff when they come back (plus their buff timer is stuck), then I can see no logic in that.
There is no logic to it. That's why we're pretty sure it's a bug. 
Plus I think at one point in time it was actually fixed, but it just crept back in.
At any rate my wording on the issue is:
"Enhance buffs are being lost on occasion when logging or in rare situations when crossing (or so it seems) server boundaries yet the enhance timer remains active, as if the player still were buffed. This one is proving to be of some difficulty, especially for higher level Doctors who have longer Buff times."
So they are lost when logging off, but the timer is still active, as if the player is still buffed.
Now the wording makes sense to me because I wrote it. But if it's not clear to others then that means I really need to change it. So the question is how can I improve the wording to be clearer? Any help you can provide on that front is always appreciated.
Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of the voting thread and should have confined my comments to other threads? I don't participate on the message boards all that much because I simply don't have time to keep up with them, so if my comments are getting in the way of you tallying the votes, I apologize again.
No, no. You did the right thing by putting your comments on the bottom of yur listing. Not a problem with that. The only problem is that I don't have seperate discussion threads for this during the Voting cycles (it would jsut be too crowded and redundant anyways.) But voting usually only lasts for a week in most cases leaving a 2-3 week timeframe where the lists are available strictly for discussion. That's the best time to discuss the issues directly because it can then be used to make sure we have clear enough issues when the voting does come back around.
The only thing I suggest that should go on outside of these threads for certain would be anything that does nto appear to be on the issues list already. Any new issues need to have some confirmation and/or support by the other Doctors to get placed onto the list to begin with. (Otherwise the list would probably be twice as long as it already is with issues that only a very few people felt were important or at least noteworthy.)
As it stands now I will be copying any issues from the voting threads that get no votes (as in they are not important enough to make it onto someone's Top 10 list) onto a seperate list of low support issues. I'll then list that Issues thread seprately for commentary and as a list of issues that are candidates for removal at some later date. Likely I think they won't actually be removed from their original lists, just kept on a seperate list so if they continue to receive no votes they will eventually be moved off the primary voting lists completely.
That's how it pretty much goes and that's why I try to sticky these particular threads for the MANY folks out there who really don't have the time or inclination to really read through the forums, but don't mind getting involved to some smaller extent in things like these voting threads to make sure their opinion is heard.
>>>Heck no! I don't take stuff like that as negative criticisms, but rather as constructive or clarifying ones.
Good. I'm a firm believer in the principle that I don't get to, er, complain (pre-edited to avoid profanity filter) about how someone else is doing their job unless I'm willing to personally do what I think would be a better job. And I'm overwhelmed by how much time and energy you put into this stuff -- so you have nothing but my undying gratitude.
>>>No, no. I'm not talking multiple bars at a time (although it has also been mentioned that using multiple ticks on a single bar actually does that many ticks worth of experiments and provides teh average as your actual success level). I'm talking about a single bar that affects multiple stats. Like how experimenting effectiveness on an enhance affects both duration AND base power.
Oy. Now I understand -- and to be honest, I'm not sure. I *think* it was on number of charges, which should be a single-value stat, but I can't guarantee that. My memory isn't my best feature these days. I guess I'll need to do that experiment after all if I get the time.
In any event, the bigger issue of experimentation being generally borked is really the problem, so any improvements they make over where we are now will be much appreciated.
>>>When is a bug really a bug and when is it just something we think we are seeing? And when is it actually unrealted to what we think it is (like buffs coming in low because of a Low Poer State on our Droids, not because Buffs themselves were nerfed.)
LOL -- I hear you. And don't get me started on that power state/droid issue. It's my number one pet peeve at the moment.
>>>So they are lost when logging off, but the timer is still active, as if the player is still buffed.
LOL -- er, um, nevermind. That's what I get for trying to post in these threads when I really don't have enough time to give it my full attention. The wording looks perfect to me. Sorry about that.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Whatever they're paying you is not enough. Oh, wait -- they're probably not paying you at all. Sheesh.
Earymi wrote:
Oy. Now I understand -- and to be honest, I'm not sure. I *think* it was on number of charges, which should be a single-value stat, but I can't guarantee that. My memory isn't my best feature these days. I guess I'll need to do that experiment after all if I get the time.
In any event, the bigger issue of experimentation being generally borked is really the problem, so any improvements they make over where we are now will be much appreciated.
Agreed. And getting clarification on how the heck experimentation is SUPPOSED to work woudl go a LONG way in clearing up for us when we are seeing a real problem, and when what were seeing is just the way it is supposed to be working. This has been one of my personal Top issues for quite some time now and Iiiiiiii'm glad to see it finally getting up into the Top 5 arena.
[snip]
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Whatever they're paying you is not enough. Oh, wait -- they're probably not paying you at all. Sheesh.
Hehe. Nothing is right. Correspondents are all strictly voluntary. We're just players like everyone else. The only perks we get are the ability to learn up our specific profession with a character on Test Center from a terminal, access to the Correspondent forum (where we sometimes get glimpses and hints of upcoming stuff and things being considered before most folks do), the ability to sticky threads on our forum and the ability to edit our own posts (because we have all of those darned lists to maintain!)
Oh, and the light blue name and the title.