Doctor Archive

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SantosL wrote:
Arryth - How is the change-over of Doc crafted items any different then that of the Chef foods, armor, weapons, CM components, etc. etc. etc.? I really find it tough to belive that the Devs plan on "economically ruin" us by setting our crafted items aside and not giving a fair conversion.

Message Edited by SantosL on 03-22-2005 05:42 PM

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Nice to hear from a level-headed 12pt doc

Truth is, we have absolutely no idea yet what the devs are going to do with our stock. We also have no idea yet what will happen to the profession on the whole.

But to state that they're going to ruin docs economically is a but if a stretch if you ask me...

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SantosL wrote:
Arryth - How is the change-over of Doc crafted items any different then that of the Chef foods, armor, weapons, CM components, etc. etc. etc.? I really find it tough to belive that the Devs plan on "economically ruin" us by setting our crafted items aside and not giving a fair conversion.

Message Edited by SantosL on 03-22-2005 05:42 PM

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I believe it'll be different because the demand for buffs won't be near as high as it is now. Even if they convert our products, the value will be diminished due to the lack of demand.

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I8TheWorm wrote:

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Arryth wrote:

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Skurr wrote:
exactly worm, I dont understand why everyone is giving birth to cows. If you are a crafter PICK UP MASTER MEDIC/MASTER BIO ENGINEER!!!! And you will be of the most uber crafters of med supplies after the cu. Enhancers will be in high demand (I have a feelings these will sell like buffpacks as far a poteintial income in concerned) since Docs will NEED them to utilize their new special ablilities. Just like the worm said the only thing people will lose is the title "master doctor" big whoop. Millions will still be made and the devs ARE GIVING FREEFREEFREEFREEFREEFEEEFEEE!!!F...R...E...E.. (thats free) skill point realloment so you dont even have to grind again. Where is the misunderstanding? I will remain an battle healing doc. I will need the enhancers. I you are so blown away by the cu that you cut your nose off to spite your face and cancel your account, Ill make someone else a millinare post cu. Up you you crfting DooDs!

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The misunderstanding here is that WE DONT LIKE WANT OR NEED this change. This sweeping almost total nerfing of our ability to craft will bankrupt most of us. Ive been here since the first day of this game and am among the oldest doctors on the servers (day 8). I have always been a doc, and I do not feel that all I have built up and all my stocks should be just wiped out because some moron does not know that the actual imbalance in combat is melee and rifel over power and armor over 65%.

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Again... nothing is being wiped out. The devs have hinted at converting existing buffs, and resources with high stats will still be needed. Nobody knows by whom they will be needed, but at the very least those resources will still be sellable.

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I dont want hints, I need fact. Were talking loads of credits here. This kind of economics cant be played with, its freezes economies.. Already hell is being played with the bio resourse markets. This post by the devs was irresponsible. You may not take it seriously but there are many crafters that run their ingame buissness as a hobby buisness.. putting alot of effort into it. Many players are involved int he whole system. How do you take packs of buffs with a fair market value of 25k per pack and move them after the dev's crash the market with talk of nerfs.

As for the rest. Most want our current crafter/healer setup.. the ability to craft well and grab a class to adventure is fun, and they are poised to take that fun away, and consequently ruin the game for a good many people.. Again.. I say.. poorly thaught out... and please.. No hints.. facts.. Hints harm.

If all you want is facts, then there's really no reason for posting in this thread, as we don't have any yet.

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TarMangani wrote:

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SantosL wrote:
Arryth - How is the change-over of Doc crafted items any different then that of the Chef foods, armor, weapons, CM components, etc. etc. etc.? I really find it tough to belive that the Devs plan on "economically ruin" us by setting our crafted items aside and not giving a fair conversion.

Message Edited by SantosL on 03-22-2005 05:42 PM

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I believe it'll be different because the demand for buffs won't be near as high as it is now. Even if they convert our products, the value will be diminished due to the lack of demand.

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I think it's too early to say that, honestly. The demand for buffs from doctors will depend on multiple factors dealing with buffs given by other professions. i.e. - what will the advantage of food be, or of spice, or of entertainer buffs, etc.

From the details given so far, there will be varying degrees of buffs given by the various professions, to what exact extent we know nothing more then longer-duration/high-power and higher-duration/lower-power.

Assuming the buffs given by the various professions stay in line with what we have now, it would make sense that Doc buffs will be the long duration ones, and there will still be a market for these buffs. Saying that demand would go down, would mean that some other profession would become better at what we currently do - i.e. if Chef foods gave better buffs overall then Doc buffs did, and were cheaper.

But I find that highly unlikely to happen, as a large change to the combat system was the REMOVAL of high power buffs; it would be counterproductive to "nerf" our buffs to 10-20% but leave the buffs from food/spice/etc. high.

So my point is - all the buffs are likely to be scaled down. That means that even if the max buff we give is 20%, or even if it's 10% but with a duration of a few hours, they are still useful and players are still going to have interest in purchasing buffs from a Doctor. What I am saying is based on assumptions that the buffs the Doctor profession will give are going to remain similar in role as we have today, just not as high powered as what we have currently.

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SantosL wrote:
it would make sense that Doc buffs will be the long duration ones, and there will still be a market for these buffs.

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Interesting you say that... I was thinking the other way around maybe. If docs are going to be groupable again, we'd be out in the trenches, and could re-apply buffs as needed. I was thinking the stronger, but shorter term buffs would be from docs. Or, both are from docs, and, like before, they just depend on what resources are used to make them.

Any thoughts on the subject?

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I8TheWorm wrote:

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SantosL wrote:
it would make sense that Doc buffs will be the long duration ones, and there will still be a market for these buffs.

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Interesting you say that... I was thinking the other way around maybe. If docs are going to be groupable again, we'd be out in the trenches, and could re-apply buffs as needed. I was thinking the stronger, but shorter term buffs would be from docs. Or, both are from docs, and, like before, they just depend on what resources are used to make them.

Any thoughts on the subject?

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Good point. This is my reasoning for buffs, and is what I'm basing all my assumptions on:

Spice - short duration/high power - These used to be high power, before Doc's got good at crafting, but now they are relatively useless.

Food - medium duration/medium power - Varies on the food, honestly, since there are different levels of food with higher power/shorter duration)Vagnarian Canape) and lower power/higher duration(Vasarian Brandy). Kinda tough to classify since the broad range, but I'd say food buffs are longer then spice and shorter then doc/musician buffs.

Doc/Musician - high duration/high power (now) - Unbalanced buffs in the game, way too high power for the duration. Based on how the other buffs are set up, it would make sense for Doc/Musician buffs to be a lower % for really high durations.

What would make sense to me, is spice is given a higher power with the same duration, food is pretty much left the same (just scaled according to the new system), and doc/musician buffs are dropped in power. This gives a benefit and a down side to all the buffs found in the game, allowing for diversity in selection, yet necessity for each as well.

But, I do like that idea of the shorter term buffs from a Doc in the field. Perhaps they will give more variety, like that of chef food, of buffs with higher power but a reduced duration. Example - 3 hour buffs with 10% buff, or 2 hour buffs with 15% (just pulling these numbers out just to show my point). That would give more variety in crafting, and better selection for buff customers while allowing Docs a great role. I definately like that idea.

Actually - on that same line regarding the shorter duration buffs -

Why not change the crafting setup to be just like the Poison/Disease resist buffs. Seperate the duration from the power in experimentation, so that a crafter can decide if they want to invest points in the power, or instead go for the higher duration. I think that would be an interesting solution, as long as they increase the amount of duration/power more appropriately per-point-experimented then what we have now in those Resist buffs.

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SantosL wrote:
This is my reasoning for buffs, and is what I'm basing all my assumptions on:

Spice - short duration/high power - These used to be high power, before Doc's got good at crafting, but now they are relatively useless.

Food - medium duration/medium power - Varies on the food, honestly, since there are different levels of food with higher power/shorter duration)Vagnarian Canape) and lower power/higher duration(Vasarian Brandy). Kinda tough to classify since the broad range, but I'd say food buffs are longer then spice and shorter then doc/musician buffs.

Doc/Musician - high duration/high power (now) - Unbalanced buffs in the game, way too high power for the duration. Based on how the other buffs are set up, it would make sense for Doc/Musician buffs to be a lower % for really high durations.

What would make sense to me, is spice is given a higher power with the same duration, food is pretty much left the same (just scaled according to the new system), and doc/musician buffs are dropped in power. This gives a benefit and a down side to all the buffs found in the game, allowing for diversity in selection, yet necessity for each as well.

But, I do like that idea of the shorter term buffs from a Doc in the field. Perhaps they will give more variety, like that of chef food, of buffs with higher power but a reduced duration. Example - 3 hour buffs with 10% buff, or 2 hour buffs with 15% (just pulling these numbers out just to show my point). That would give more variety in crafting, and better selection for buff customers while allowing Docs a great role. I definately like that idea.

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See, I wasn't around before big time buffs. All of the above makes sense, though, and you could very well be right about doc buffs being the long term/low power option.

It would be nice to see some range in all of the options, again, making the 12 point docs (medic/be's) the elite crafters, allowing for a range in price/quality. But to bring back a necessity for spices, other than Muon Gold for emergency use as it seems to be currently used, would make a lot of smugglers happy.

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SantosL wrote: So my point is - all the buffs are likely to be scaled down. That means that even if the max buff we give is 20%, or even if it's 10% but with a duration of a few hours, they are still useful and players are still going to have interest in purchasing buffs from a Doctor. What I am saying is based on assumptions that the buffs the Doctor profession will give are going to remain similar in role as we have today, just not as high powered as what we have currently.

Everything you say is based on the idea that buffs will still be the norm for combat. If so, then you're right to a degree.

My position is that buffs will be relegated from a near necessity to a convenience. Something a player CAN get if he/she wants, but doesn't truly need. Once more, I don't see a lot of players standing in line endlessly for the 20% buff per se. There will still be a need for buffs, but to say there will be the same demand for a 20% enhancement, once most players realize they can get a lot of continuous healing with a healing in a group, is a bit too optimistic.

Of course we'll all have to wait and see. I'm not one of the panic types, however I DO believe the changes will diminish the NEED for buffs, to which then my previous argument will hold true....

Regardless I doubt we'll be selling the product for the same prices, thus we'll still take an economic hit...

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SantosL wrote:
What is a Doctor? A Doc in SWG is the ultimate in support. We heal, we cure, we enhance our group. Our functions in healing and curing have been secondary as time has gone on, but we can't just ignore our primary function in this game.

We are NOT buff bots.

I find that more and more players are choosing Doctor as their profession, be it their primary choice or a secondary skill. But how many people really know about all the aspects of the Doctor profession? There is more to our skill set then just the /healenhance, and I hope that many of you that are against the upcoming CU changes that affect our profession take that into consideration.

And I have just as much to lose "financially" in this game as anyone else. But you know what? Losing some fake money in exchange for gaining a role in groups and combat again will make it all worthwhile.

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I am so dissapointed in the upcoming changes for many reasons. I became a doctor because I liked and healing people. I havent done much crafting and I havent done much line buffing except because I what i enjoy most is pve. Now a doctor cannot be in the front lines any more, the skill points for getting a master combat proffession are too heavy, a medic can heal health damage as well as we can, all we can cure is states and who knows what they will be like after the cu. We are reduced to doing some mysterious enhancements and rezzing a person every once in a while and there is now one wound pool instead of six lol. What will we heal?

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SantosL wrote:
What is a Doctor? A Doc in SWG is the ultimate in support. We heal, we cure, we enhance our group. Our functions in healing and curing have been secondary as time has gone on, but we can't just ignore our primary function in this game.

We are NOT buff bots.

I find that more and more players are choosing Doctor as their profession, be it their primary choice or a secondary skill. But how many people really know about all the aspects of the Doctor profession? There is more to our skill set then just the /healenhance, and I hope that many of you that are against the upcoming CU changes that affect our profession take that into consideration.

And I have just as much to lose "financially" in this game as anyone else. But you know what? Losing some fake money in exchange for gaining a role in groups and combat again will make it all worthwhile.

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I8TheWorm wrote:

Sorry... I was having trouble keeping track of which thread I was posting in (troll).

You know, then, that I'm not really trying to cast a positive spin on the CU, but more of a "it's going to happen, so do what you have to to be ready for it" spin instead.

Those that liked to craft meds and apply them are getting the shaft, or it would at least appear so. I doubt there will be enough SP to master doc, pick up the BE necessary to craft meds, and master a combat profession. But if that were possible, would that be ok with you?

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That would probably be okay with me as right now I'm MD/Master Rifleman. Good combination there. However in order to prepare for the CU, I had to pick up the Ranged Supportcolumn of Marksman again so now that's ALL I am, (for the professions requiring SP anyway).

If what another thread said is true and you need four lines of Scoutalong with medic in order to get Novice BE, I won't be able to make BE at all unless I drop most of Rifleman, which I think is what the devs are intending.

Plus, and correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they changing some of the base SP costs for someexisting professions as well?

From the looks of things, I think the devs aren't liking the fact that one can attain an elite profession with only one column in a basic profession, which is probably why they're adding the 1 handed column to TK and the unarmed column to I believe fencer and pikeman. This will forceus to dropsome of the elite profession points we have, whichagain sounds like what they're wanting.

My impression is the devs are pretty much forcing this change on us and, as a result, herding us like cattle into thepaths they want us to be.

Doctor was able tobe played many different ways,afterthe CU it looks like we'll be forced to play it maybe one of two ways...

Good for the devs, (especially if they're going to save time and money by using the same code as EQ), but bad for allthe rest of us who've spent time learning how to roleplay ourprofessions a certain way...

Interestingly enough I don't think either of us were some Rah Rah types, however when the glowie dude just kept saying "NOBODY is, and EVERYONE is, I was disagreeing with him..." Call them aggresive negotiations I guess eh? lol.