Doctor Archive

First id like to say I’m glad that people are actually responding to this to give their point of view on this topic. It’s helped me see a few things from different angles and i'm sure it’s helped some of you as well. BTW, don’t take anything personally, this is just opinion either from me or from any of you so be open minded when reading.

I went through all the previous posts once more so let me lay out all the points and if they are valid or not:

Everyone who is a Doctor is one for their own reasons. Weather to make money, to benefit a guild or friends, to only benefit themselves, if they in enjoy the idea of a support class and its content or cause the like the crafting part. This is not an argument; no one cares how you play no one cares how I play.

I like money, and i’m sure all of you do to. You can’t give me one person in or out of the game that doesn’t like to have extra cash on hand, so this is not a point you can make for why you are a doctor. Funny thing is i've been one for 16 months and I can barely hold 500k at any time, either cause I spend to much or I just don’t focus on a profit when working, i’ve always charged 8k for my buffs.

You can’t argue that there aren’t veteran Doctors compared to noob doctors. Those how have been doctor longer then 6 months and actually look into know there are little trips and tip that aren’t listed anywhere and most really don’t know about. If you cant tell me what happens to buff pack power when experimenting past 60% then you lack some knowledge of the class, and yes something does happen but I wont say what.

Just because you have "Master Doctor" above you head DOES NOT mean you know what you are doing. All "Master Doctor" means is that you are at the maximum capability of this class, that you can provide the highest results (not counting SEAs, food, BE clothes, 110% droids, etc) using medical supplies. This not mean you know how the class works. I’m sure most of you couldn’t even tell me what the main Stat one looks for in materials for making medical supplies is, and please don’t go looking it up now just to respond.

This discussion is more about the coming changes. The stuff that will change eventually will barely affect a Doctors role in the game people; if anything it will increase our role. People think just because they lower the results of buffs people will not want buffs at all. Even if they made the Buffs for example equal to the Base Power on the Packs, mine being currently 872, ill take an 872 buff compared to no buff. The other thing people don’t like is that Doctors might be required more on hunts, meaning a greater demand for stimpacks, curepacks, rezing, etc. This will only increase our profits where as suppliers will get more sales for even basic items like Stimpacks (which are quite easy to make) plus there is the option of offering ones services on PvE hunts for an hourly rate or something. This is also good cause like me some Doctors are part Combat class so we can use both are skill at the same time for profit. Most will argue that doing that in the past was never profitable, and yes they are right, BUT key word there is PAST, now a days there’s lots of money so people can pay well for a doctors service especially now since Doctors are much better known for their skills compared to the first 6 months of the game. Anyone who is worried or is complaining that the coming changes will screw us doesn’t realize that Doctors have had 4 changes up till now, and yet our demand has never gone down. The reason I say only the "noob" doctors, meaning the more recently to join this profession, are complaining because they are unaware that the changes will not be negative towards up cause they haven’t experienced change like the veteran doctors have, who have no worries abut the coming changes.

I hope this helps continue this discussion, but please think carefully before you respond to this.

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Touch_Of_Eternity wrote:
I tend to think that there is no such a thing as noob/newb doc Once a person reaches master doctor, he/she is just that...a master doctor.

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I've been a Master of many professions... Combat Medic, Ranger, Droid Engineer, Architect, Bio-Engineer... of these professions I can think of off the top of my head, I knew nothing about them. I had maxed out my attainable skills within the profession, but I was still a "noob [insert profession here]" b/c I had no knowledge of the profession. Being a master doesn't mean you are a master of the profession, which is especially true with doctors now b/c of tumblers. Not saying that all newer docs don't know the prof, just saying that there are alot of them amongst the hoard of people who took up doc b/c they thought they could make mad money off it [which they don't b/c they always end up buying their packs and make a very low profit margin compared to a good combat prof].

Long story short, "masters" who know nothing of the profession are still noobs to it, that is what they are talking about when they refer to noob masters.

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Legende wrote:

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Touch_Of_Eternity wrote:
I tend to think that there is no such a thing as noob/newb doc Once a person reaches master doctor, he/she is just that...a master doctor.

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I've been a Master of many professions... Combat Medic, Ranger, Droid Engineer, Architect, Bio-Engineer... of these professions I can think of off the top of my head, I knew nothing about them. I had maxed out my attainable skills within the profession, but I was still a "noob [insert profession here]" b/c I had no knowledge of the profession. Being a master doesn't mean you are a master of the profession, which is especially true with doctors now b/c of tumblers. Not saying that all newer docs don't know the prof, just saying that there are alot of them amongst the hoard of people who took up doc b/c they thought they could make mad money off it [which they don't b/c they always end up buying their packs and make a very low profit margin compared to a good combat prof].

Long story short, "masters" who know nothing of the profession are still noobs to it, that is what they are talking about when they refer to noob masters.

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Hehehe..I can see your point...I should have elaborated more
Like when people used to holo grind...jumpin' from one profession to next, I wouldn't consider them as 'master' of profession other than the title.

But once you reach master doctor, and start to utilize given skills...such as buffing, curing poison/disease/fire, etc...he/she inherently begins to understand the profession...and stats of each med as he/she, even as non-crafter, wouldn't want to buy inferior products when shopping around for them

Doctor isn't a pure crafting in nature but uses meds to utilize given skill sets. Even those people who picked up doctors to just to buff and make money, he/she does understand quite a bit about buffs...perhaps not the crafting aspect of it but at least the application aspect of it.

What you said does have a valid point though Master title doesn't make you a master of that profession; I'd agree with you. But, I hesitate to classify to-make-money-buffing-docs as noob/newb doctors...as they do participate in one of major roles of doctor profession and mostly do gain a knowledge of buffs.

Buffing is one of many skills doctors have...and if one chooses to explore only that aspect of the profession...hehehehehe...oh well...just a shame that he/she will not have a pleasure of denying someone else's cherished DOT weapon with a single shot of cure pack that costs about 200 credits to craft LOL

My long story in 'short'...generalization isn't fair...though fairness might or might not be an issue here

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My main point, per se, was to address that there really is nothing wrong with a player's choice of becoming a doc to make money by buffing people I tend to think it's the cash flow that attracts the to-make-money-buffing-docs. Cash flow can cover the cost of their activities and allows them to buy things they desire in the game...in the end, there might not be any profits for them at all But as long as he/she enjoys the money and the purchases he/she makes, I guess there is no harm done

Message Edited by Touch_Of_Eternity on 11-06-2004 03:52 AM

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captenjonny wrote:

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Legende wrote:


And in this thread, the "this is how I play the game, leave me alone" arguement is invalid, b/c the way you play the game is forcing others to play how they don't want to... so what about them? I know you can't satisfy everyone, it's an ugly truth, but don't try to bring this arguement up b/c all you are saying is that you are better than the others.

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Could you try be any more hypocritical? Did you go to the George Bush School of Altered Reality to come up with THAT statement?

The REAL "ugly truth" is that YOUR style of play is available to anyone right now. But nobody wants to play with you. Now you're crying to Mommy (SOE) to FORCE people to play with you.

YOU are the player holding YOUR style of play as the only valid one - in spite of the FACT that it is so unpopular almost no one in the game plays it. Read the forums. The same few names keep popping up pushing the combat nerf- the sole point of which is to CHANGE THE WHOLE GAME to force everyone into that playstyle.

I only read this pro-nerf crap from you so-called "veterans" who, since they can't convince anyone currently in the game to play thier way, are making a lot of noise in favor of nerfing buffs/food/armor ostensibly to bring back the "good old days".

What needs to happen is a call for NEW content, not to make the OLD content HARDER!

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Suppose I could respond to this...

First off, I'm not "crying", nor have I yet... your implication that I am is misplaced. There is a difference between debating and complaining. If you are unable to descern the difference, perhaps it's something you should look into b/c throwing around misplaced insults such as that doesn't earn you too many open minds to your words. By your logic I could say you are crying b/c you want everything to stay how it is, but I'm sure you would disagree with me on that, no?

What next... yes, I suppose I could be more hypocritical b/c I'm not at all when I said that. You say "YOUR style of play is available to anyone right now." ... that's an interesting point you have there. Problem is, you are wrong. Available means that, should I choose to do so at the time, I can group with others and go hunting [within reasonable constraints... obviously finding a group at 1AM when the bulk of the server is asleep isn't going to be easy, but at least it would be possible]. There is no such option in the way the game is now. There is the capability, but that doesn't mean there is anyone around to do it with. I am forced, indirectly, to play the game solo... which, btw, was NEVER how the devs intended the game to be. If it was, there wouldn't be so many group oriented features.

You obviously didn't play the game when you had to group, otherwise you would agree with us. How much fun are you having killing the same sh*t over and over, by yourself? Hunting in a group is, by far, much more entertaining as well as interesting and interactive. People get bored with the game b/c all there is to do is grind another profession by themselves, or go to one of few over-powered high content dungeons.

So ya, I guess I do want SOE to force people to play how we used to play... maybe you think that is wrong, but that's faulty thinking and you know you can't tell me honestly that you believe SOE meant for all but the very highest content to be soloable. Not only is it a ridiculous concept, it's a very unstimulating game environment.

Like I said, I want what's best for our profession, but the whole ground game comes before any one profession, and if we have to bite a bullet and lose a source of income, so be it. We won't be the only ones that have to bend over and hope it's lubed when CB lands. If you want a game where you can solo everything, and there is lots of content, pick up Neverwinter Nights Platinum... this isn't a single player game, but that's how it's being played as far as PvE goes. And I do agree with you on needing more content instead of making old content harder, but the way it's going now, do you really want another dungeon that is just harder than DWB?

Not quite sure why I'm still posting here... I know I'll only be greeted by flames... what can I say, I want what's best for SWG, even if it means our profession has to take a hit on one front [even tho we'll be gaining on other fronts] and obviously there are too many closed minded Doctors here that can't accept the fact that buffs need to be nerfed b/c it will take away a source of income for them. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but it is not a matter of opinion on whether or not buffs/armor have ruined the ground game [by ruined, that is not to say it's unplayable as some seem to take it as, it means it is not what it is, and always has been meant to be], it is a fact.

Suppose I'm done with this thread, there's no reason to expect anything civilized to come of this anymore, so have at it.

Message Edited by Legende on 11-06-2004 01:25 AM

Touch, I understand you completely, I think it's a difference of opinion between us... I don't regard a doctor who only buys buffs, and uses them to buff people for money as someone who knows anything about our profession. They know what to look for on a buff pack, what to wear, and how to setup a macro that spams their advert and buffs all 6 stats by either command or clicking a button for them in the toolbar [I prefer putting them in the toolbar, visual status on where your buffs are]. I would wager to guess that I couldn't count the number of doctors that don't carry anything except buff packs with them b/c that's all they have doctor for and that's all they know... how to buy and use a buff pack.

If they go through and actually heal people, even as a master, and do other doctor related stuff, and just use the majority of their time buffing, then I would consider them to know a thing or two, but as it stands there are alot of doctors that do nothing except buff. I would compare that to being a droid engineer who buys their droids and resells them.

EDIT: Reworded a bit at the start

Message Edited by Legende on 11-06-2004 01:20 AM

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Legende wrote:
Touch, I understand you completely, I think it's a difference of opinion between us...

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I understand where you are coming from too People enjoy different things, even in this game. As I said earlier, I salute docs that can buff hours on...I couldn't do that LOL...I can barely do it for 15 min LOL

Group or solo...I enjoy humbling death from super mobs...and regard to your question involving DWB...YES, I would love more dungeons where you go and just get run all over by super mobs LOL...I am a big fan of humbling death experiences in this game

I do hope for more chances to do drag..LOL..it's my favorite medic skill that I don't get to do very often...good draggin' is a skill LOL

One thing in common though...we both want betterness of Doc profession

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KimAndre wrote:

You're right about the combat medic part.. But most people associates combat medics with poison and diseases... I like to be more like a long range medic..

I just took a look at the CM forum.. just poison and diseases.. not a single word mentioning ranged stims and their powers...

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Thats because there is so little healing needed in the game. Even with the Sith Shadow guys spaming some nasty specials I can still count the number of places where a doctor or CM is needed for heals on one hand.

As to the matter of styles of play. The simple truth: Everyone's style of play will be affected by the combat revamp.

Soloing will still be available. However, the curve between lower and higher level content that can be soloed is going to be steep and based alot on your skill.

Are they forcing you to accept this change. Yes..they are. Do you have a choice...no you don't. There are plenty of people who have been angered over "fixes" and certain patches that we've had over time in SWG but we've had to live with it or cancel our accounts.

I remember reading the Everquest boards back in the day when I played that. I remember reading about necromancers and shaman's posting about how they were able to solo certain demi-gods that usually required a decent group to take down. I also remember them posting their methods that were the results of painstaking hours of experimentation, patience, research, and pure strategy that left everyone in awe of how they did it. I'm hoping that soloing high level content will require that kind of determination after the revamp.

Now if you don't mind I'm going to go abuse the system by soloing a Krayt with my T21. Toodles

You guys might be right about Doctors learning all the way to master and knowing how to do buffs, but when you say they know what to look for in stats its not excatly true. I mean they can tell 890 Base is better then 850 Base, but what else do they know? They know how to make a marco to buff and a marco to spam at the SP. Master is just the max Capability of a class, if you grinded your way through it you dont learn the little details. Now I argee its not quite right to categorize all the Doctors in the game, but just by simple factors you can tell which way most people fall. Weather being "Noob Master" or being a true master of this or any other profession.

The Medic and Doctor Professions is unique compared to any other class. Its not a full crafting class since to actually gain experience you need to use you own crafted materials to get higher levels in the other three sections. Its not just a full grind of materials, it takes actual effort by to person to use the items. Its not a combat class although it is the main support class in combat. Without it supporting combat with buffs, heals, cures etc. combat would be near impossible at higher levels.

Now I agree with most that it needs to be revamped a long with all the combat related factors, but its not somthing people will drop or forget. A buff is still a buff. People will still line up for them, people will still like them. Its not somthing that will be lost to nerfing like so many other class, such as CH and Ranger.

BTW, anyone who is still arguing the fact that there is no such thing as Noob Masters, Veteran Players and True Class Masters doesnt have much to show for their progress in their own profession in my opinion. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GUYS WHOS BEEN MASTER TKA FOR 6 MONTHS AND A MASTER TKA WHO JUST GOT TRAINED TO THAT LEARN. The 6 month TKA will, with no doubt in his mind, know hes better TKA then the one he just trained. Equipment doesnt make you a better player, it only improves your odds, but it doesnt mean you know what to do with them like a Veteran would, this goes for any and all classes. Ive been a Master Pikemen longer then anyone else on Starsider, but guess what, I dont have the best pikes on the server, though I have had some that were 1000+ max damage which i given to fellow pikemen to encourage them to continue the class. What I do have is the knoewledge of how to use the class perfectly and where to find the components to make the weapons as good as they come. One thing I can truly use to say im a True Master of this class is that ive gone beyond normal skill level in this class by assembling a suit specifily for Pikemen. The suit adds +200 points total to 8 different skill, this is +25 to Polearm Speed/ Evasion/ Damage/ Accuracy/ Counterattack/ Block also +25 to Melee and Ranged Defense. How many masters do that?

I have a Doctor suit similiar to this btw, with all the Doc skills. This is what makes one a master, going beyond what is easy to get and aiming for the higher stuff.

I tend to think that there is no such a thing as noob/newb doc Once a person reaches master doctor, he/she is just that...a master doctor.

I love crafting aspect of the game. I've been playing this game for more than a year now, and I opened a second account (this character) to try out doctor. My main was WS at the time, but I decided to retire from it...cuz doc crafting was so much more fun It's been over 6 months since I became a master doc, and I am still lovin' the profession I craft my own buffs/cures/stims...though I am guilty of buying wound packs from bazzar when I am too lazy to make one or pull one outta the crates in the droids LOL

I would hate to put a noob/newb title on any doc cuz he/she buys his/her buffs/cures/stims from vendors and uses them to utilize the doc abilities. Doctor isn't a pure crafting profession...it allows him/her to enjoy the profession without having to craft his/her meds. This also creates a balance between active-on-field doctors and med-crafters.

I, personally, do not enjoy a long and boring buffing sessions at SP. I buff my close friends and myself...so you can say I am a semi-private-buffbot hehehehe. But, I salute those docs providing buff service to general public. And regardless of solo grouping or not, 15k for buff isn't all that expensive for 2.5 to 3.5 hours of nice bonuses to your stats. 15k can be easily made from 2 general 8k-9k missions, which all high level combat class can easily handle...this doesn't even require solo group

Solo group is, as mentioned earlier by someone else, a choice that a player makes. It's not all that enjoyable to look at mokks/jantas/rancors for hours But, the matter of the fact in the game is...goods are bought with credits or equal-value goods. If he/she wants to save up 30+ million credits to buy...hmmmmm...a NS armband (I want one) or anything for that matter...and spend hours on doin' solo group missions...I'd say go for it...and I'd salute him/her for the patience lol

Each server has different state of economy...cost of goods will be determined by the state of economy...so yes, credits are needed if you want 'things'...and level of wealth a player wants to achieve is up to him/her...after all, this is just a game...some will choose to be casual players and ...some of us...well...hehehehe...not so casual

But we are all here for a same thing...to play a game

As for where this profession is going...whether the buff gets nerfed or not, people will want buffs...just as I will be wearing armors even if they get nerfed (even 25% reduction is better than nothing)...and a lot of people will pick up more medic skills themselves instead of relying on medics/docs...because when it comes down to it, it's difficult to put your fate in someone else's heal/cure...reason for tka meditate bein' so popular among so many people.

I plan on staying as a doc...probably as long as I play this game...unless they add a new profession like a singer or artist