Doctor Archive
Thread: Doc healing is just too good.......
Shariane wrote:
And I'm tired of the BS from the PVPers ruining for everyone else.
I'm not a PVPer, Dragon, so me and mine do not send you tells. But you certainly enjoy ruining it for everyone else. You and yours came to my server and started this quest to prove who was better PVPers. Instead you make life miserable for those that do not PVP, who cannot even navigate Theed or Eisley without SEVERE lag and freeze ups on Broadband access... Who are now abusing the healing system and are the cause of this change.
Don't blame the jedi, blame the PVPers.
Crymore noob
My god people like you should really go buy a playstation, the idea is that this game is played with other people, whethere they're throwing heals, slicing armor, pvp'ing or making stims its allinteraction that can produce lag so just get used to it.
As for the doc fighting 5 jedi, the reason for that is that the jedi have only been playing 15 weeks and didnt have a bloody clue what theyre doing. As for the other healing moaners, let me introduce you to things such as Lineofsight, armour, synthsteak, grouping, teamwork. "OMG I stood in front of a swordsman and he pwnzord me!!! I was even wearing an energy psg and his kinetic weapon completely bypassed it, thats not fair wah wah wah!!"
Stop moaning and actually learn to play the game instead of coming here crying, the game is fun, be careful now you may actually enjoy yourself.
And if healing is so overpowered how come you need to boost healing power with droids and food to keep up with all the other FOTM's?
No, the reason is that the doctor only have 4000 Doctor, which allows him to mix his template with the strongest tank profession and damage dealing specials in the game, and still heal for +2500 damage per cycle.
loucabrasi wrote:
As for the doc fighting 5 jedi, the reason for that is that the jedi have only been playing 15 weeks and didnt have a bloody clue what theyre doing.
ToOB Jedi have forcecost, actioncost and mindcost and can only heal themselves for 1500.
Isaea wrote:
and with ToOB Jedi have only Force costs, no mind, no action - but they can heal them self with 2000... that is near god mode!
With my foodcombo I never run out of mind, and it happens very often I use Bacta Spray as Area Taunt becouse I can tank better than my friends can, even my Master Teras Kasi / Master Pikeman friend cannot tank like I do.
loucabrasi wrote:
Sure you'll be able to heal a few times but your mind will drop too fast to keep up, so if you look at it another way it is balanced, the doc heals helped for a while but it's not like avopidincap.
There's plenty of issues in this game where people cry nerf, this isn't one of them.
MsNiL wrote:
ToOB Jedi have forcecost, actioncost and mindcost and can only heal themselves for 1500.
Isaea wrote:
and with ToOB Jedi have only Force costs, no mind, no action - but they can heal them self with 2000... that is near god mode!
They pay 160 force for this, and regenerate 63 force per 10 seconds.
Doc's pay 300 mind for the same heal, but regenate 250 force per 10 seconds (not counting buff/spice/food).
Alternative they can use Bacta Jab for only 150 mind, that's regenerated in 7 seconds.
Furthermore, mind is regenated with x4 speed when sitting down, while Jedi must pay 28 skillpoints for Force Meditate that boost with x3 speed.
Docs and Jedi cannot really be compared.
Isaea wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
ToOB Jedi have forcecost, actioncost and mindcost and can only heal themselves for 1500.
Isaea wrote:
and with ToOB Jedi have only Force costs, no mind, no action - but they can heal them self with 2000... that is near god mode!
They pay 160 force for this, and regenerate 63 force per 10 seconds.Doc's pay 300 mind for the same heal, but regenate 250 force per 10 seconds (not counting buff/spice/food).Alternative they can use Bacta Jab for only 150 mind, that's regenerated in 7 seconds.Furthermore, mind is regenated with x4 speed when sitting down, while Jedi must pay 28 skillpoints for Force Meditate that boost with x3 speed.Docs and Jedi cannot really be compared.
Jedi on german SWG-boards swear that there is no action- or mindcost for Jedi on ToOB. Beside this you won't find any whinny-posts about this (and you can be sure there would be), so I am sure that they maybe think about this, but this cost won't come for Jedi.A Jedi did an interessting calculation:If he will only do force healing, he will be able to heal about 50 timesWhen he will do force healing and fighting, he will be able to heal about 20 timesMDoc will be able to heal with food about 10 times when he will do nothing else then healingDo you see the little different?And in future MDoc will be able to heal about 5 times and will then kicked his ass by the mob.. but this for Jedi who thinks they are to weak because those bad, bad BH are able to kill them..
Every mention of the non-Action/Mind Cost Jedi Heals is stating its bugged at the moment and we still have what, 2 weeks to launch. We'll just see how it compares when they re-enable the Force Heal costs... no point in comparing it now.
Isaea wrote:
Jedi on german SWG-boards swear that there is no action- or mindcost for Jedi on ToOB. Beside this you won't find any whinny-posts about this (and you can be sure there would be), so I am sure that they maybe think about this, but this cost won't come for Jedi.
Your german friends have broken the NDA in that case. I am aware of the issue, and it's becouse of a bug. They are intended to pay force/action/mind now.
A Jedi did an interessting calculation:
If he will only do force healing, he will be able toheal about 50 times
When he will do force healing and fighting, he will be able to heal about 20 times
MDoc will be able to heal with food about 10 times when he will do nothing else then healing
Do you see the little different?
Miscalculated. He forgot that mind regenerate4 times faster than the force without counting food, and an additional x4 times faster if you sit down (which means x8 if you have 10-20sec break to sit). And the cheaper bacta jab should not be forgotten.
And in future MDoc will be able to heal about 5 times and will then kicked his ass by the mob.. butthis for Jedi who thinks they are to weak because those bad, badBH are able to kill them.
MDoc have access to battlearmor and can buff their own health/action/mind. I personally have a Jedi who have no more than '60' in armor of which '40' of that is a heavily draining manashield, not to be confused with proper armor. My entire template have '20' Melee Defense and '20' Ranged Defense.
Having played both for quite some time, they really cannot be compared. For the simple role as to heal a group, Jedi is your very last pick. You have the massive cost of Total Heal and the severly slow force regenation to thank for that.
MsNiL wrote:
Isaea wrote:
Jedi on german SWG-boards swear that there is no action- or mindcost for Jedi on ToOB. Beside this you won't find any whinny-posts about this (and you can be sure there would be), so I am sure that they maybe think about this, but this cost won't come for Jedi.
Your german friends have broken the NDA in that case. I am aware of the issue, and it's becouse of a bug. They are intended to pay force/action/mind now.
A Jedi did an interessting calculation:
If he will only do force healing, he will be able toheal about 50 times
When he will do force healing and fighting, he will be able to heal about 20 times
MDoc will be able to heal with food about 10 times when he will do nothing else then healing
Do you see the little different?
Miscalculated. He forgot that mind regenerate4 times faster than the force without counting food, and an additional x4 times faster if you sit down (which means x8 if you have 10-20sec break to sit). And the cheaper bacta jab should not be forgotten.
And in future MDoc will be able to heal about 5 times and will then kicked his ass by the mob.. butthis for Jedi who thinks they are to weak because those bad, badBH are able to kill them.
MDoc have access to battlearmor and can buff their own health/action/mind. I personally have a Jedi who have no more than '60' in armor of which '40' of that is a heavily draining manashield, not to be confused with proper armor. My entire template have '20' Melee Defense and '20' Ranged Defense.
Having played both for quite some time, they really cannot be compared. For the simple role as to heal a group, Jedi is your very last pick. You have the massive cost of Total Heal and the severly slow force regenation to thank for that.
When somewhere is breaking the NDA than you. You remeber? NDA is partially lifted. And you said this isa bug. And this is not a feature or content that testers allow to speak...
It is right that action recover very fast in compare with force. But do you think it is really the same as force healing that you will get for near nothing and due this you have anendless healing? Will force go down when a monster hits you? No? But action will do. Near everything Jedi is doing they have near nothing force costs. Maybe we should give force the same recorverability like action but the same action cost as other player - do you realy think you will happy about this? I guess you would learn very fast what it means to have no pool points and watch your death
And yes, Doc are able to wear armor. But afaik Jedi hasa natural armor of 7000 that is much more that you can get with a amor to wear. And if you the combination of TKM/MDoc than you should better wear an amor because if you have the case of a fight you will be in big trouble.. Did you test this, too?
Isaea wrote:
When somewhere is breaking the NDA than you. You remeber? NDA is partially lifted. And you said this isa bug. And this is not a feature or content that testers allow to speak...
I am not under NDA.
It is right that action recover very fast in compare with force. But do you think it is really the same as force healing that you will get for near nothing and due this you have anendless healing? Will force go down when a monster hits you? No? But action will do. Near everything Jedi is doing they have near nothing force costs. Maybe we should give force the same recorverability like action but the same action cost as other player - do you realy think you will happy about this? I guess you would learn very fast what it means to have no pool points and watch your death.
I am a Master Force Healer. I am used to having to run away after 1 minute becouse I have no force left, just becouse I tried to keep my friends healed.
A Healer whoheals for 1500 must rest for 22 seconds
A Doctor who heals for 1250 must rest for6 seconds (without food)
A Doctor who heals for 1750 must rest for12 seconds (without food)
A Doctor who heals for 3000 must rest for 18 seconds (without food)
A Healer who heals for 3000 must rest for70 seconds.
A drained Doctor must rest for 2 minutes, 30sec if sitting down.
A drained Healer must rest for 18:30 minutes, 6:05 minutes if they bought "Meditate" for 28 skillpoints
Doctor can enhance mindpool with food and buff.
Healer cannot enhance forcepool.
Doctor can enhance healing efficiency with SEA's, food and force sensitive skills.
Healer cannot enhance their heals.
And yes, Doc are able to wear armor. But afaik Jedi hasa natural armor of 7000 that is much more that you can get with a amor to wear. And if you the combination of TKM/MDoc than you should better wear an amor because if you have the case of a fight you will be in big trouble.. Did you test this, too?
Jedi do not have natural armor of 7000. Defenders does. I have 2000 armor, and +4000 manashield that I pay force to keep up (which adds to the reason I run out of force in 1-2 minutes).
MsNiL wrote:
Isaea wrote:
When somewhere is breaking the NDA than you. You remeber? NDA is partially lifted. And you said this is a bug. And this is not a feature or content that testers allow to speak...I am not under NDA.
It is right that action recover very fast in compare with force. But do you think it is really the same as force healing that you will get for near nothing and due this you have an endless healing? Will force go down when a monster hits you? No? But action will do. Near everything Jedi is doing they have near nothing force costs. Maybe we should give force the same recorverability like action but the same action cost as other player - do you realy think you will happy about this? I guess you would learn very fast what it means to have no pool points and watch your death.
I am a Master Force Healer. I am used to having to run away after 1 minute becouse I have no force left, just becouse I tried to keep my friends healed.
A Healer who heals for 1500 must rest for 22 seconds
A Doctor who heals for 1250 must rest for 6 seconds (without food)
A Doctor who heals for 1750 must rest for 12 seconds (without food)A Doctor who heals for 3000 must rest for 18 seconds (without food)
A Healer who heals for 3000 must rest for 70 seconds.A drained Doctor must rest for 2 minutes, 30sec if sitting down.
A drained Healer must rest for 18:30 minutes, 6:05 minutes if they bought "Meditate" for 28 skillpointsDoctor can enhance mindpool with food and buff.
Healer cannot enhance forcepool.Doctor can enhance healing efficiency with SEA's, food and force sensitive skills.
Healer cannot enhance their heals.And yes, Doc are able to wear armor. But afaik Jedi has a natural armor of 7000 that is much more that you can get with a amor to wear. And if you the combination of TKM/MDoc than you should better wear an amor because if you have the case of a fight you will be in big trouble.. Did you test this, too?
Jedi do not have natural armor of 7000. Defenders does. I have 2000 armor, and +4000 manashield that I pay force to keep up (which adds to the reason I run out of force in 1-2 minutes).
True on your Force Armor but you could also roll with the 20 JIA from Initiate and not use the Improved Force Armor if you aren't tanking/off-tanking. That's more a templete issue then anything else since you lack any Defender at all... but you do have all the CC and buff abilities of Enhancer.
But again, all I can say is wait and see what the A/M costs are going to be for Force Healing... it may come out on top in terms of A/M costs versus the Doctor and CM heals. Also, with Action becoming such a pivotal pool, the Healer's ability to heal with low Action costs could really come into play versus Doctor's needing to hold back a reserve for things like Knockdown Recovery (which has no Force Cost
).
Isaea wrote:
I see, you are not in Beta, but you know better than better than beta testers what happen there.. alright..
I live here on the forum
Sit down for awhile and have a cup of tea. Sorry about the mess.
And it is very interesting that other Jedi garantees that they need 6 seconds between a 1500 heal.
Between heals yes. I am talking about recovering pool. In theory, a Jedi can heal 62 times in a row (6 minutes 10 seconds), after which they are completely drained and need to rest 18:30 minutes. This counts on 63 regeneration.
In theory, a Doctor can do the same with Bacta Shot for 6 minutes, not counting food or buff.
With Pixie, Serotonin and food you can bring Mind up to +38%. If you do this, you can do this indefinitely and never run out of mind. You simply regenerate faster than you waste it. If you quickly swap back and forth between bactashot/bactajab however, you can keep on doing it for 4 minutes. Ofcourse, sap might bring this down for a bit.
By being careful you can avoid healing like this, and use bactajab when you do not need more. If you do, it's easy to keep up your mind.
Maybe you should improve your Jedi heal abilities when you need 3 times longer to do the sames as other Jedi..
You are not better att healing at master than with 4000, unless you count Total Heal. Total Heal is so costly that you must try to avoid using it. I use it very rarely. When I start to do it I know we are probably toast.
It is right that Doc can enhance their mind, but you remeber that mind recovers very slow? The only way to gain mind is to sit - but did you try sit on a fight? In fact when mind is down while a fight you better escape because else you can nothing do than read the "you have not enough poolpoint" messages. Normal you will run out of mind after 10 times healing, when you have enhanced mind before.But in future you won't have the problem that mind runs out due the massive action cost which prevent use a heal. To compare mind, which won't recorver very fast in a fight, with a force action which cost near nothing, is like to compare apples with orange. But why don't you suggest SOE that they change force with action/mind - you sounds like that you will be happier then.
My mindcombo is Breath of Heaven, Vagnarian Canape, Serotonin and Booster Blue. This gives me 3000+600+300+200+50=4150 mind (and 4650 health). Basicly this increases my mind regen with +38%.
I alsouse Bacta Jab as often I can. Bacta jab only takes 5% mind while bactashot takes 10%.
And you have 2000 armor -that is 2000 more armor than a normal player has.And 4000 armor with your manashield -at all6000. Do you remember that a normalplayer pays for a armorlike thiswith same value about 1 Mio Credits and this armor will decay. That mean the armor will destroy after a while - do you remember? They have no ability to reload the armor with meditate. They have no natural armor of 2000. Maybe SOE should turn this off and give Jedi the ability to wear battle armor. Do you think they would happy about this?
You can get very cheap armor with 4000. If this is a problem I recomend TKA that do not pay for armor. That's a very good profession for people with lack of money.
MsNiL wrote:
Halae wrote:
How about we also reduce the force heal of the 4000 healers to 25%? 375 hp healed? So that only master healers get the 1500.
MsNiL wrote:
I am ok with a Master Doctor being able to heal like they do now, but 4000 need to be scaled down alot.
Nobody should be able to pay 20% of their skillpoints to buy a whole role.
To have any balance back into this game, good healing need to cost a majority of your skillpoints. Just as many points as you need to build a very good melee stacker.
For example, 4000 Doctor might need to be scaled down to 25% of what they can heal now. Maybe BactaJab moved to Master.
And combining Master Medic with Master Doctor should be noteably better than just having Master Doctor.
Would it make sense to anyone if 4000 Swordman gave you 200 accuracy, 100 speed, 250 defense+cob, powerhammer license, armorbreak and critical hit?
If you do not intend to Master Doctor, then Stimpacks and more points invested in defense should be better than 4000 doc.
My MDoc can heal for 3000 damage for 18sec regen. My MHealerdo the same for71,5sec regen.
Suggested Heal capacity MDoc/MHealer:
Novice Doctor = 600 per 6 sec
1 line = 1000 per 6 sec (this is about half of what you get from 4000doc right now)
2 lines = 1400 per 6 sec
3 lines = 1800 per 6 sec
Master = 3000 per 6 sec
+400 per line, basicly +100 per box. At Master you earn a 2nd low-costheal (bactajab for doctors). This 2nd low-cost heal would replace the current Total Heal for mfh.
Improved/Advanced versions of heals are no longer neccessary.
To match the 15% mind for bactajab/bactashot, the forcecost for a 3k heal need to be reduced with -63,5% (-75% if compared with totalheal), alternatively the force regen need to be upped with 400% or forcecost completely removed.
I have the 4-x-x-x line in doctor, and my heals are at 1250 every six seconds or so. I do not see this imbalanced at all since a 4-x-x-x healer gets 1500.
I think you just see imbalance in master healer and master doctor.
Message Edited by beastmistress67 on 10-11-2005 02:37 PM