Doctor Archive
Thread: Does anyone have any finite info on the upcomming buff nerf?
damnthatwook
Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:02 pm
#27
buffs are buffs.
if they are better than everyone elses buffs,
they are better buffs.
not to sound like a jerk, but
i think u all need to stop worrying so much about the balance.
i don't make all that much money buffing, honestly, it all comes from loot.
if they nerf the money output, prices will fall. so all that money u have now will be worth more.
everyone knows ch's got screwed and carbineers are almost worthless so something has to give.
think of it as an opportunity to be the firstto master the new system,not a loss of power.
TatterSalad
Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:55 am
#28
pircio wrote:
Dovakic wrote:
Are you guys at liberty to say, without any specifics, if buffs will be kept desirable to the average player?
i'm not a tester or dev, and i cannot provide any definate info.
but i have read posts where developers have said that their will still be a need and demand for doctor applied enhancements. the actual numbers will probably be different, but it will still be a desirable skill for both the players providing the service and receiving.
UMMMMM YEAAAAA, I am going to have to go ahead and claim BS on what the devs say. How many times have they said that something was still going to be needed in the game but then it was something that was completely worthless afterthey nerfed it. Prime example, is Master CH, who is MCH anymore? No one because the prof. is completely worthless, since they nerfed the heck out of pets.
On another note I recently read that buffs are supposed to only enhance stats by 1 to 15%, so as not to make players uber. Ok well that is a complete waste of resources to even make buff packs, because who is going to want to pay 6 to 10k for a buff that their are probably going to lose because they died from a rill. I also see this as another atempt to force players to group. Ok, maybe grouping isn't that bad, but explain to me how a group of 20 players with their weak arse buffs are going to take down an elder or a Krayt. Simply not going to happen, thus high level npc's and creatures will nolonger be hunted an several players may quite because they enjoy doing that sort of stuff. I for one plan on staying reguardless because it will most likely be reverted back to the old way. But it is said to see the game have to go through these very rough changes so drastically.
Just my 2 copper pieces.
DuronQelDroma
Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:58 pm
#29
What are they trying to do?... take away everyone's ability to make a decent living in this game? Are they trying to drive more players away? We're already losing ENTIRE GUILDS to games like WoW and EQ2.
delanstarrunner
Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:32 pm
#30
TheRockStar wrote:
Those who know can not tell
I used to work 'stop-loss' for an insurance company, this is an example of a 'stop-loss' measure. Sad!
Nabodia_Norilles
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:30 pm
#31
Obata wrote:
Do you really think the corrs and us testers would standby and let buffs get lowered to 15% of the patient's base stats? Honestly, there is no reason to spend any energy worrying about this. Speculating about what will happen won't get us anywhere. Just wait until the CU hits public beta, then everyone will know and can decide how to adjust their play.
I don't think its an issue of do we think you all would LET it happen. We don't really have any faith from previous history with the development team that they will LISTEN to your input. How many times have we seen in other instances Correspondence trying to pacify the masses by saying "Yes, we told them our concerns but..."
So don't take it as a personal jab. We have faith that you will fight forthe cause, we just don't have faith in the development team to be smart enough to listen to you. 
vortexala
Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:10 pm
#32
It's on the Top 5 list I sent to the devs
Ledao wrote:
Could ya' get 'em to bring back incaps from poison too?
pircio
Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:46 pm
#33
that's what i'm saying, its abalance upgrade, buffs will still be needed, they just won't be able to give people the edge in every case, of course buffs WILL be able to give the edge for some novice brawler who's grding his way fighting nunas and crap. on the flip side its going to be nearly impossible for people to solo krate dragons, thats not to say that a group of a few good combatants won't be able to get the job done though.
Obata wrote:
Do you really think the corrs and us testers would standby and let buffs get lowered to 15% of the patient's base stats? Honestly, there is no reason to spend any energy worrying about this. Speculating about what will happen won't get us anywhere. Just wait until the CU hits public beta, then everyone will know and can decide how to adjust their play.
Sunakk
Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:07 pm
#34
Agent001 needs to sticky one of these "doomsday buff nerf" threads, so people will stop creating new ones.
Onto the topic: buffs will always be in demand and have value, because no matter how strong they are, being able to better than those not buffed will be an advantage in any situation--be it PvE or PvP.
As to trusting the devs to listen to testing players' concerns, I think they did a great job of this during JTL beta. LOTS of changes in design and content happened during a short amount of time, mostly because of continued communication by the player community for requests of changes. Since the CU is bringing about a new combat system all together, the devs are sure to listen to all community input when making decisions of all levels and areas. A lot is at stake with the CU--the devs don't want to screw it up any more than the players want them to.
Oh, and I also agree with the post that no one should be fretting on resources or stockpiling of buffs until the CU hits public beta (test center), at which point the NDA will be lifted, and you'll have plenty of time to decide how to prepare for the coming changes. In any case, powerful buffs in live today will still be powerful buffs in the CU--no matter how it changes the buff system. I seriously doubt the devs would risk deleting all buffs to switch over to the new system. That would be chaotic and asking for an uprising.
Obata
Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:16 am
#35
TatterSalad wrote:
pircio wrote:
Dovakic wrote:
Are you guys at liberty to say, without any specifics, if buffs will be kept desirable to the average player?
i'm not a tester or dev, and i cannot provide any definate info.
but i have read posts where developers have said that their will still be a need and demand for doctor applied enhancements. the actual numbers will probably be different, but it will still be a desirable skill for both the players providing the service and receiving.
UMMMMM YEAAAAA, I am going to have to go ahead and claim BS on what the devs say. How many times have they said that something was still going to be needed in the game but then it was something that was completely worthless afterthey nerfed it. Prime example, is Master CH, who is MCH anymore? No one because the prof. is completely worthless, since they nerfed the heck out of pets.
On another note I recently read that buffs are supposed to only enhance stats by 1 to 15%, so as not to make players uber. Ok well that is a complete waste of resources to even make buff packs, because who is going to want to pay 6 to 10k for a buff that their are probably going to lose because they died from a rill. I also see this as another atempt to force players to group. Ok, maybe grouping isn't that bad, but explain to me how a group of 20 players with their weak arse buffs are going to take down an elder or a Krayt. Simply not going to happen, thus high level npc's and creatures will nolonger be hunted an several players may quite because they enjoy doing that sort of stuff. I for one plan on staying reguardless because it will most likely be reverted back to the old way. But it is said to see the game have to go through these very rough changes so drastically.
Just my 2 copper pieces.
Do you really think the corrs and us testers would standby and let buffs get lowered to 15% of the patient's base stats? Honestly, there is no reason to spend any energy worrying about this. Speculating about what will happen won't get us anywhere. Just wait until the CU hits public beta, then everyone will know and can decide how to adjust their play.
Beliam
Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:44 am
#36
i have no problem if all the prices go down........(INCLUDING maintainance and power cost), but if i still have to pay 100cpu-400cpu for resources for my buffs, then lol ill never craft a buff again or leave the game.
TatterSalad
Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:36 am
#37
Obata wrote:
TatterSalad wrote:
pircio wrote:
Dovakic wrote:
Are you guys at liberty to say, without any specifics, if buffs will be kept desirable to the average player?
i'm not a tester or dev, and i cannot provide any definate info.
but i have read posts where developers have said that their will still be a need and demand for doctor applied enhancements. the actual numbers will probably be different, but it will still be a desirable skill for both the players providing the service and receiving.
UMMMMM YEAAAAA, I am going to have to go ahead and claim BS on what the devs say. How many times have they said that something was still going to be needed in the game but then it was something that was completely worthless afterthey nerfed it. Prime example, is Master CH, who is MCH anymore? No one because the prof. is completely worthless, since they nerfed the heck out of pets.
On another note I recently read that buffs are supposed to only enhance stats by 1 to 15%, so as not to make players uber. Ok well that is a complete waste of resources to even make buff packs, because who is going to want to pay 6 to 10k for a buff that their are probably going to lose because they died from a rill. I also see this as another atempt to force players to group. Ok, maybe grouping isn't that bad, but explain to me how a group of 20 players with their weak arse buffs are going to take down an elder or a Krayt. Simply not going to happen, thus high level npc's and creatures will nolonger be hunted an several players may quite because they enjoy doing that sort of stuff. I for one plan on staying reguardless because it will most likely be reverted back to the old way. But it is said to see the game have to go through these very rough changes so drastically.
Just my 2 copper pieces.
Do you really think the corrs and us testers would standby and let buffs get lowered to 15% of the patient's base stats? Honestly, there is no reason to spend any energy worrying about this. Speculating about what will happen won't get us anywhere. Just wait until the CU hits public beta, then everyone will know and can decide how to adjust their play.
I was just commenting on what I had read in another post that was posted by the devs for publish 11.3. It states that stat buffs are to max out at 15%. Now I don't know if there was a mistype in the post or that some type of new buffs were coming out that were supposed to be a max increase of 15%. I am just commening on what I read. I did jump online briefly yesterday and buffed myself and noticed that the buffs have not changed.
However, I would hope that testers will make it known that things like that are not acceptable. I have been playing since day 1 and have seen many things nerfed that testers and other players didn't want changed but yet it was changed anyways. So yes, I do think that the devs will change things against the advise of the testers and the community.
TatterSalad
Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:53 am
#38
In the case of PVP yes buffs will still have the same value, but in PVE it won't be the same. I for one am not a PVP player, I absolutely hate PVP because of the mod stackers and the combat medics and simply I don't like PVP. But I do enjoy all the other content of the game, I think this game is awesome. But I also don't want to be forced into groups inorder to get some of the good loots and such in the game, but I do understand that there always needs to be something in games like SWG that you need several players to kill or complete the task. Now maybe I would be more into doing groups if there wasn't greedy people out there that always wanted the loot from the Krayts and elders, etc. I just don't see the benefits to grouping and giving effort when I never get the uber loot because of some ninja looter. I know that someone is going to say, well then get into a guild and go out with people you trust. Again this forcing the community into doing something that they may not want to do. By leaving buffs at the level they are and simply bumping up the amount of damage done in PVP is doing the same thing except it leaves the PVE community to do what they want to do. When the combat upgrade comes out, if people are still soloing Krayt's and Elders, etc then make changes to those specific npc's in the game. I for one think only a Jedi that has dedicated all of their skill points to mastering the force should be able to solo things like Krayts and Elders.
Sunakk wrote:
Agent001 needs to sticky one of these "doomsday buff nerf" threads, so people will stop creating new ones.
Onto the topic: buffs will always be in demand and have value, because no matter how strong they are, being able to better than those not buffed will be an advantage in any situation--be it PvE or PvP.
As to trusting the devs to listen to testing players' concerns, I think they did a great job of this during JTL beta. LOTS of changes in design and content happened during a short amount of time, mostly because of continued communication by the player community for requests of changes. Since the CU is bringing about a new combat system all together, the devs are sure to listen to all community input when making decisions of all levels and areas. A lot is at stake with the CU--the devs don't want to screw it up any more than the players want them to.
Oh, and I also agree with the post that no one should be fretting on resources or stockpiling of buffs until the CU hits public beta (test center), at which point the NDA will be lifted, and you'll have plenty of time to decide how to prepare for the coming changes. In any case, powerful buffs in live today will still be powerful buffs in the CU--no matter how it changes the buff system. I seriously doubt the devs would risk deleting all buffs to switch over to the new system. That would be chaotic and asking for an uprising.
Sunakk
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:38 pm
#39
TatterSalad wrote:
In the case of PVP yes buffs will still have the same value, but in PVE it won't be the same. I for one am not a PVP player, I absolutely hate PVP because of the mod stackers and the combat medics and simply I don't like PVP. But I do enjoy all the other content of the game, I think this game is awesome. But I also don't want to be forced into groups inorder to get some of the good loots and such in the game, but I do understand that there always needs to be something in games like SWG that you need several players to kill or complete the task. Now maybe I would be more into doing groups if there wasn't greedy people out there that always wanted the loot from the Krayts and elders, etc. I just don't see the benefits to grouping and giving effort when I never get the uber loot because of some ninja looter. I know that someone is going to say, well then get into a guild and go out with people you trust. Again this forcing the community into doing something that they may not want to do. By leaving buffs at the level they are and simply bumping up the amount of damage done in PVP is doing the same thing except it leaves the PVE community to do what they want to do. When the combat upgrade comes out, if people are still soloing Krayt's and Elders, etc then make changes to those specific npc's in the game. I for one think only a Jedi that has dedicated all of their skill points to mastering the force should be able to solo things like Krayts and Elders.
You make valid points about PvE. It is not going to be the same as it is now. I'm my opinion, PvE is terribly broken right now because everything is solo-able (except for the top-notch mobs that have been introduced lately for a challenge) and this is wrong. Buffs are too powerful because they make substats obsolete and everyone in armor a tank. The game becomes un-fun when the only challenge is the top-end conent, which can be faught solo. All of the other conent in game is rendered obsolete except for rising up through a new profession.
Sure, the top loot won't be achievable so easily if you can't get uber, god-like buffs anymore. But if it's dropped only by the higher-end content, then I would surmise that it is meant to be rare and only received after great effort--in this case a group effort.
Your whole argument is about loot, and I agree that it is an inperfect system right now. I do remember seeing a dev post recently asking for suggestions on a new loot-delivery system for groups. I for one think the group leader should get it, and then distribute as needed. But that requires trust, so who knows what would work best for everyone.
I suggest reading up on the HAM System Revamp, which is in the In Concept Forum. With these changes (which I presume are still on track for the CU), doc buffs cannot stay as they are without breaking the intended fixes to the HAM system. Yes,gameplay will be a change from what everyone's used to, but in order to fix the broken systems in the game, I think it is worth it.