Doctor Archive
Thread: Avian Meat Pricing: a Cost/Benefit Guide.
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Coran_Sienar
Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:40 am
#27
I never pay more than 20 cpu for harvested meat. I don't care how amazing it is. I alsotry not topay more than 6 cpu for a resource. Considering that most of my meds are given out free to my fellow guildies; I simply can't afford to pay a lot for resources.
Those meds that I do sell are sold at 150% profit. That means that I charge 75K for a crate of 50 stim B's with 400 power and 40 uses. I make more than enough to buff/heal/rez/whatever my ENTIRE guild for free at that price.
Yeah, it means that I turn a profit of a million credits per month instead of every week. I don't particularly care. I've been blasted for my prices by other Master Docs (go figure), but I really don't see any benefit to having more credits. I have a lot more fun interacting with my guildies and friendsthan trying to get my imaginary hoard of credits. *shrug*
Of course, my pricing schema has some nice side effects. People actually sell me >900 OQ and PEuber meat at 20 cpu...because I give them hundreds of thousands of credits worth of free meds. It's a lot more fun to barter than it is to just grind away for credits.
Sevardos
Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:59 am
#28
Ducimus wrote:
I guess i have to chime in.
Bria Talus avians going rate was 200, 210 for mass bulk.. I NEVER heard 400 until i saw this thread.
As for the market value of avian, its based primarly one one thing. The guy AFK auto spamming competative rates at cornet SP Lets put it this way, if you offer me 100 CPU, and another guy is offering me 110 CPU, why should i sell it to anyone but the 110 bid? If you offer me 110 or more, ill sell it to you right then and there.
If not, ill go put it on the vendor of the guy who is. It's not meant to be mean, but for some of us, harvesting is our trade and profession. It's nothing personal, im there to make the best credit i can for my labor.
Which brings me to another point. AVIAN MEAT SUCKS! Do you guys realize how much work it is to get a 5K, or 10K stack of avian meat? Most avian meat spawns are small yeilds. Its not like going to endor and harvesting 100ish units hide or meat per kill. With that stuff i have no problem with 50 CPU or whatever, its easy to get large quanities. But with avian, were talking on the average your getting like 8, 14, 30, 40 units per kill, and thats with 100+ creature harvesting skill.
have no point, just voicing the harvesters side of this subject.
That Talus spawn was going for 200 cpu to 350 cpu while in spawn - depending on the day and the Doc buying it. Hasn't really been a largeauctionof it yet since it's despawned so who knows how high it will go.
That being said, I agree with you. I was willing to pay 200 cpu for that spawn because I'd rather watch paint dry than harvest those skinny mobs for Avian meat. If other Docs outbid me then fine - I still paid 200 cpu for anyone offering it to me but I don't blame the hunter for that.
Fact remains though, if price of igredients goes up (and it definitely has), then so will the retail prices of buffs. And it won't be a 1-to-1 ratio either.
/shrug So the prices go up. Inflation is always inevitable in games while they age.
ZeroK0ol
Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:09 am
#29
dude. u are single handedly raising the price of avian as we speak. I think i hate you.
u are NOT bringing into account ANY other resources you azz hat.
...... not everyone harvests their own resources. get off the boards, this forum is proof posting is dangerous
mahir
Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:50 am
#30
Interesting analysis. Nice to see someone did this 
But i've noticed the discussion didn't challenge your model.
But i've noticed the discussion didn't challenge your model. 1) Have you considered balancing out the cost for all other resources (standard market rate) to examine how much buffs cost per person? This is really important because you need MORE Herbivore meat then avian meat.. and herbivore meat prices have been going up too... also important when you mention "how much money we can make" I know I did a simple cost per back for a buff on Starsider and it came to 15k for a pack using market prices (used to be like 5k a pack when we charged 20k per back.. now its 15k a pack and we still charge 20k per pack)
Basically big picture here you focus on one small and important factor, but we still need big picture before you can conclude prices
you focus on one small and important factor, but we still need big picture before you can conclude prices2) I also believe your point that the analysis falls apart is true; however, its adjustable by price discrimination. A full time buffer (not a typical doctor) can carry both sets on them and charge x rate. I know I did this for fun once, 2300 for 10k and 2500 for 12k. Everyone picked the 10k set; however, this is not a conclusive study I admit. Small and nonrandom sample size.
3) I don't think anyone needs great buffs in their secondary or tertiary stats. Only in their primary because regen is negligible when costs are negligible. If you recharge at 100stats a second, whats the point if you only spend 2? Damage taken, but with 80% reduction in all damage costs by Armor, does it still hit over 100? (excluding uber mobs because then your not grinding money)
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:18 am
#31
ZeroK0ol wrote:
dude. u are single handedly raising the price of avian as we speak. I think i hate you.
u are NOT bringing into account ANY other resources you azz hat.
...... not everyone harvests their own resources. get off the boards, this forum is proof posting is dangerous
I don't make any claims in how much buffs should cost. I only defined exactly how much MORE it costs to use expensive avian than to use cheap avian.
Whether the rest of the resources cost you 1,000 or 10,000, I don't care: All that my chart says is that for a given CPU avian, and a given number of charges you create with that avian, the cost divides out to be a certain amount.
It's like you buy a car, and you want to get a$100third party radio or$500 radioto put in it. Regardless of how much the rest of the car costs, thethird party radioadds an exact, determinable amount to the price of the car, either $100 or $500.
Hey, I'm a doc too, but I wanted to set the record straight on the true effects of avian meat pricing.
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:31 am
#32
mahir wrote:
Interesting analysis. Nice to see someone did this
Thanks!
But i've noticed the discussion didn't challenge your model.
...
Basically big picture here
Right; I make no claims as to other factors that go into buff prices(there are so many variables!). I only explored the specific part of the cost that comes from buying avian meat.
2) I also believe your point that the analysis falls apart is true; however, its adjustable by price discrimination. A full time buffer (not a typical doctor) can carry both sets on them and charge x rate. I know I did this for fun once, 2300 for 10k and 2500 for 12k. Everyone picked the 10k set; however, this is not a conclusive study I admit. Small and nonrandom sample size.
3) I don't think anyone needs great buffs in their secondary or tertiary stats. Only in their primary because regen is negligible when costs are negligible. If you recharge at 100stats a second, whats the point if you only spend 2? Damage taken, but with 80% reduction in all damage costs by Armor, does it still hit over 100? (excluding uber mobs because then your not grinding money)
Yeah, 2300 vs 2500 is negligable (unless you like everything maxed). But what about 2000 vs 2500? That's a 20% difference. Like I said, someone should test to see at what pointare your secondary stats high enough, so that anything above doesn't add any noticable benefit. For example, at what point of Strength, Focus, and Quickness is a Master Swordsman able to spam Head Hit 3 with a2 Handed Curved Swordwith X,Y,Z HAM costs, at 1 swing per second, without losing any HAM? Too many variables, but I'm sure we could ge reasonable estimates.
ZeroK0ol
Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:12 am
#33
I did this in a specific reply to this forum. heres the costing for EVERY thing, vs just avian. This is in bria's economy and it makes me puke. A new dr in todays' economy would have almost NO chance to get enough resources to establish theirselves if they wanted the better resources on the server.
This is what it would cost to craft buffs as a NEW dr in TODAY'S economy collecting some of the BETTER resources currently in bria's economy.... makes me puke.
Avian = 138u x 325cpu = 44850
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=235958
Rea Gas = 138u x 40cpu = 5520
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=32646
Dolovite Iron = 96u x 25cpu = 2400
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=175983
Dom Oats = 96u x 10cpu = 960
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=91068
Herb Meat = 192u x 150cpu = 28800
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=225318
C4 Liq Petro = 192u x 60cpu = 11520
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=158930
Lok Wild Wheat = 234u x 4.6cpu = 1077
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=53304
Tat Fiberplast =234u x 40cpu =9360
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=127809
Grand Total is 104487 if you bought the servers better resources out of spawn PER SET OF BUFF PACKS
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Yoshua Acero
Bria
Feral
Master Medic/Master Dr/Master Swordsman
Vendor Location -3379, 640 Dantooine in the Medcenter of Riverview
Currently Stocked Cheap Stim b's 900 creds per pack 356p/30u
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:55 am
#34
Considering that youcan earn 300,000 on 30 charges at 10k per buff, 104487 really isn't that bad, especially for someone who just wants to buy their way past all the hard work of actually harvesting stuff. Plus, you are talking about cream of the crop resources, which you don't absolutely need just to makea buffpack. Also, the Avian which went for 325cpu only had two bids, one at 250 cpu, and one at 325 cpu -- not exactly a good sample set. AND, this person probably only paid that much because it was available in bulk, meaning he could get almost two crates of each buff in a factory run. If you bought 138 units exactly, you would never pay 325 cpu. You can't look at a small subset of primeauctions and from that judge the entire economy. That's like saying that because Ferrarris cost $300,000 means that the economy is broken and it's impossible to get started as a new driver.
If you want to never harvest anything yourself, and have your first buffpack be the best on the server, then of course it's gonna cost you a lot of credits! But for about a 500,000-600,000 credit investment over time, I was able to create a crate of each buff (50 packs)at 889 power and 30+ charges.
In any crafting profession, it's going to cost you a lot to pay someone else to gather your resources.
Message Edited by Bad_Bad_Leroy on 09-02-2004 09:04 AM
ZeroK0ol
Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:04 am
#35
Dont tell me not to look at small sub sets when that is EXACTLY what you are basing your theories off of.
And this is called a 'fair market value survey' which means weather you HARVEST it or BUY it, that is what it is worth, i could SELL those resources for 105k on a fair market. So harvesting is irrelevant.
And in today economy, at least in Bria, you DO need the cream of the crop resources. Otherwise people will not buy your buffs, points blank. Bria is spoiled by a few Doctors who craft AWESOME buffs regularly so its rare that you have to buff someone for under 2300 usually around 2400 and that is what the customer base has come to EXPECT.
Regardless of if it cost alot for others to gather your resources, you were basing this soley on avian. im just saying that you need to take other items into account. Which i did for you so you wouldnt have to do your own homework.
As for the 325 avian. i couldnt find the 400cpu auction that had about 10 or 15 bids, i knew it existed coz i was keeping an eye on it when it was going on, i just couldnt find it. the average price for that was 300cpu but it was as high as 400cpu until a few doctors started a union to keep it from hitting 400cpu regularly.
In a fair market, each time a product transfers ownership the value should go up 3-5 times. so if a crafting doctor charges 120k for a buffset, which is more than reasonable (because yes they harvest their own stuff, so thats why its MORE than reasonable) then a Buffing doctor putting in their time should be able to make 5 times that, which... as i believe is 600k in an optimum market and no less than 3 times that which is.... 360k. which is what an average buffing doctor will make from a full buff set. 400-500k.
20k buffs are not unreasonable at the moment, its on the HIGH end. but not unreasonable.
*MENTAL BREAKDOWN* i forgot what the original arguement was by now, i just remember that you werent lookin at anything but avian. Those prices are on the high end, but the highest end is what the market is. otherwise no one would pay it.
ZeroK0ol
Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:09 am
#36
why did you edit ur message seconds after i posted mine?
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 09-02-2004 10:10 AM
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:56 am
#37
ROFL! I do thatall the time
ZeroK0ol wrote:
*MENTAL BREAKDOWN* i forgot what the original arguement was by now
ZeroK0ol wrote:
i just remember that you werent lookin at anything but avian. Those prices are on the high end, but the highest end is what the market is. otherwise no one would pay it.
I was looking only at the effect of avian, keeping everything else constant. Regardless of how much everything else costs, you can calculate how much avian adds. If avian adds 1000 credits to the cost of making the pack, then it's whatever everything else costs plus 1000.
I agree completelythat if you're on a server where everything else (herb, lok wheat, etc.) is high priced, then it can be difficult and not very profitable to sell buffpacks.
Message Edited by Bad_Bad_Leroy on 09-02-2004 02:57 PM
Bad_Bad_Leroy
Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:57 am
#38
ZeroK0ol wrote:
why did you edit ur message seconds after i posted mine?
Message Edited by ZeroK0ol on 09-02-2004 10:10 AM
lol sorry
Marzuk147
Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:07 am
#39
I just wanted to point out an extreme breakdown of logic in a previous post:
"Of course, my pricing schema has some nice side effects. People actually sell me >900 OQ and PE uber meat at 20 cpu...because I give them hundreds of thousands of credits worth of free meds. It's a lot more fun to barter than it is to just grind away for credits."
You see, its all arbitrary. Lets say that instead of paying 20cpu you pay 100cpu, and it costs you 1 million dollars more. Then you profit by 1 million dollars more.. you are no more chasing after an imaginary horde of credits, than you are now. All you are doing, is getting something for less than market value, and giving something away for less than market value.
If you insisted on paying market value and charging market value, their would essentially be little to no difference most likely.
EDIT:
" edit:
>>endor and harvesting 100ish units hide or meat per kill. With that stuff i have no problem with 50 CPU or whatever
I lied. I have expenses too, 75ish + or - 10 CPU would be a ballpark figure for that "
Ok, so you kill ONE thing, get 100 units of hide to sell at 75 cr per, and you make 7500 credits, probably + the payout for a mission. With the right combat professions, you could kill 5 of these types of mobs before a doc could buff 1 person, and with much less overhead as well.
Thats why I laugh when I see this sort of thing. Pay 75cr for this? Nope, not until I can start charging 50,000 for a set of buffs and 5cr per wound healed.
"Of course, my pricing schema has some nice side effects. People actually sell me >900 OQ and PE uber meat at 20 cpu...because I give them hundreds of thousands of credits worth of free meds. It's a lot more fun to barter than it is to just grind away for credits."
You see, its all arbitrary. Lets say that instead of paying 20cpu you pay 100cpu, and it costs you 1 million dollars more. Then you profit by 1 million dollars more.. you are no more chasing after an imaginary horde of credits, than you are now. All you are doing, is getting something for less than market value, and giving something away for less than market value.
If you insisted on paying market value and charging market value, their would essentially be little to no difference most likely.
EDIT:
" edit:
>>endor and harvesting 100ish units hide or meat per kill. With that stuff i have no problem with 50 CPU or whatever
I lied. I have expenses too, 75ish + or - 10 CPU would be a ballpark figure for that "
Ok, so you kill ONE thing, get 100 units of hide to sell at 75 cr per, and you make 7500 credits, probably + the payout for a mission. With the right combat professions, you could kill 5 of these types of mobs before a doc could buff 1 person, and with much less overhead as well.
Thats why I laugh when I see this sort of thing. Pay 75cr for this? Nope, not until I can start charging 50,000 for a set of buffs and 5cr per wound healed.
Message Edited by Marzuk147 on 09-02-2004 04:10 PM
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