Doctor Archive
Thread: So for you many afk macroing docs what will the new non-reoccuring macro commands mean to you?
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Bad_Bad_Leroy
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:18 pm
#27
Traigus wrote:
Actually, one more thing that people need to remember. Every connected player costs SOE money.
Subscription fees are calculated on average play time. Hardcore players cost more in badwith costs then casual players.. AFK 24/7 bots cost even more then hardcore players.
While this is true, don't expect it to get any cheaper. Any benefit is going to profit. The only hope is that if it generates more profit they'll give more dev resources to improve the game, but that's a slim hope.
Sunakk
Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:38 pm
#28
I think taking out recursive macros will be a great thing. Yes, it will make grinding through a crafting profession much more grueling and boring, but I see that as the only down side. I do not see it as a bad thing that players have to actually go out and find other players in order to get things they need. That is the whole purpose of the game! That is what MMO's are for! If you don't want to talk to the doc buffing you, fine. But the interaction is still there, and I think that is a great change for the game.
captenjonny
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:32 am
#29
Sunakk wrote:I think taking out recursive macros will be a great thing. Yes, it will make grinding through a crafting profession much more grueling and boring, but I see that as the only down side. I do not see it as a bad thing that players have to actually go out and find other players in order to get things they need. That is the whole purpose of the game! That is what MMO's are for! If you don't want to talk to the doc buffing you, fine. But the interaction is still there, and I think that is a great change for the game.
1) If the players want interaction they should get up from thier keyboard, shut off the computer and go outside. I argue that SWG doesn't provide interaction it provides fantasy - different bag of beans.
2)The "ONLY DOWNSIDE" affects 16 of 33 professions. So almost half the professions get a serois nerf and that's OK with you?
I have read a lot about this issue and I agree with the fact that looping macros exist because some elements of the game are so poorly designed that the only way to get to the point where you CAN enjoy the game is to macro. I say stop discussing the recursive macros and look into WHY people are using them.
Morningbrood
Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:44 pm
#30
I really don't see how anyone can believe this is a good thing.
Just like irl the spammers will figure out a way to spam, however I sat done and thought about it here is a short list of things I will no longer be able to do without the macro/ui action toolbar command.
auto armor on/off (who like to sit there and click on that manually)
cob (with a 30 sec timer this cmd is useless if you cant repeat it automatically)
change fighting styles easily (right not i just hit f7 to change the toolbar to pistol from tk and equip my new weapon)
make sure i take bivoli before each buff (can't tell ya how many re-applies i had to do before i added this to my buff macro)
Those were just the things off the top of my head, really i don't see this change as a positive in any way only making game play annoying for those of us that would rather interact with the other players and not button mash all day.
Just my 2cr.
Just like irl the spammers will figure out a way to spam, however I sat done and thought about it here is a short list of things I will no longer be able to do without the macro/ui action toolbar command.
auto armor on/off (who like to sit there and click on that manually)
cob (with a 30 sec timer this cmd is useless if you cant repeat it automatically)
change fighting styles easily (right not i just hit f7 to change the toolbar to pistol from tk and equip my new weapon)
make sure i take bivoli before each buff (can't tell ya how many re-applies i had to do before i added this to my buff macro)
Those were just the things off the top of my head, really i don't see this change as a positive in any way only making game play annoying for those of us that would rather interact with the other players and not button mash all day.
Just my 2cr.
Houdani
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:50 am
#31
captenjonny wrote:
1) If the players want interaction they should get up from thier keyboard, shut off the computer and go outside. I argue that SWG doesn't provide interaction it provides fantasy - different bag of beans.
2)The "ONLY DOWNSIDE" affects 16 of 33 professions. So almost half the professions get a serois nerf and that's OK with you?
I have read a lot about this issue and I agree with the fact that looping macros exist because some elements of the game are so poorly designed that the only way to get to the point where you CAN enjoy the game is to macro. I say stop discussing the recursive macros and look into WHY people are using them.
People use the recursive macros not because that HAVE to, but because they CAN. It makes some activities more efficient, but that still doesn't make them required. Calling it a "serious nerf" is highly questionable. I'd be willing to hear your argument about why you consider it a serious nerf, though.
I have somedifficulty wrapping my brain around the whole necessity of having macros (COB, DB, Loot) running non-stop. Maybe it's a PVP thing, but in PVE I haven't found that my gaming experience is diminished by having to punch a hotkey every 20-30 seconds to load up my combat queue. At least it gets me to pay more attention to what's going on.
H.
Tujol_tor
Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:24 am
#32
It means with no buffbots, Docs will be able to increase the cost of buffing, 10k is way to little charge, you should be charging 30k a buff, thats only one mission.
Freji
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:22 am
#33
At the end of the day though remember this:
- You don't have to play the game
- If Sony stop recursive macros you can rest assured that there will be a workaround Too many people reley on macros.
- Lets just get on with it, and play an interesting GAME
Personelly I'm looking forward to it
Freji
aradz
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:42 am
#34
Valuthorax wrote:I have a feeling it is the uiaction toolbar command they are removing.It is a shame as a casul player (i dont afk doc buff) but i do walk away fro mmy keyboard alot for real life issues --and not having a macro going and looping will now kick me out of game more then not-I will lose all my timers, my spartial will get deleted, and I will miss conversations, and it will waste more time I could use to normally play.This change sucks, Casual gamers that can play an hour-2 a day now will have to search for active docs wait in lines 20 deep, and search for entertainers..SOE thanks for making the game soo much harder for the casual gamer.
Lets stop this whole idea that this hurts the casual gamers right here.
If you are to a point where you REQUIRE buffs, you are no longer a casual gamer. If you require 2900+ health, action, and substats thereof, you will be attacking some rather high-end mobs that do a lot of damage and have very high HAM themselves. Yes, you can take these with those buffs, but not without. The only other area that REQUIRES buffs is PvP, and that is endgame content, where you pit yourself against the best the other player can come up with, and buffs are part of that equasion.
A true casual gamer, as it's envisioned in every other MMO, and as far as I'm concerned here as well, wears mid-level armor (we're talking ubese or tantel here), has a semi decent weapon, and can run your average mid level mission off a term solo. What do I mean by mid-level? Crazed gurreks on Endor, huurton on dant, borvo on naboo. These missions, by their very nature, don't pay much, but that's all a solo player can pull.
Now, if that casual gamer hops into a group of say 10 or so people, and starts running missions on these harder planets TOGETHER (not a 'solo group'), yes they can take out the mokk and janta. You're not spamming specials, you're eating foods to get your stats up a bit higher, and you're relying on the medical support classes in the group to keep you alive and fighting. The fight is 1000 times more enjoyable, esp. to the casual player, he's interacting with others (the true hallmark feature, and main draw of an MMOG in my opinion) and having a BLAST doing it.
This is the fundimental problem with this game. The player interaction, dependancy on other classes (esp. the healer class), and want to group and actually enjoy other's company is just not there. That's why you keep asking for more from the devs: you have done it all solo (or can do it all solo) so nothing really intrests you anymore.
Lets call you what you really are: A solo player. That's right, you're not casual, you play solo. In every other MMOG you would be looked down upon as a whiner, and a mooch. You want to have all the best stuff, solo all the hardest content, and just generally run around in 'god-mode' all the time. But, in SWG, you classify yourself, as do many others, as simply 'casual'. This is a mindset change, and not one that I welcome.
I call myself what I am; I enjoy this game (a little too much some say), and fully understand that I am a power gamer. In that reguard I have tried to become as self-sufficient as I possibly can be. I am a doctor, I make my own buffs, I try very hard not to mooch off any one else, and really really appreciate any help I'm ever given. I try to help others out as best I can, giving freely of my time, experience, and resources to those that are looking for a helping hand, and not a handout. I never expect to be given anything, and fully expect to pay top dollar for any assistance I am provided, even from very close friends (who, I may add, humble me daily by telling me my money is no good with them
).There's a reason the term "solo group" has spawned up from this game. You're not SUPPOSED to go attack that 27k mission by yourself and live, you're supposed to need a group to go to that waypoint and help you dispatch those unruely mokk. You're supposed to depend on a medic to keep you alive as you take a massive pounding while using very few specials in tactial precision, rather than just spamming them as your normal fire. You're supposed to need a CH or TK to hold them at bay while you fire over their shoulder. Melee helping ranged, medic helping both.
When I do get into a group, I have the time of my life
. I know I can go and run mokk/janta missions solo for hours on end, and end up with millions in credits in very short order. I know I can trapse through the jungles of Dathomir and wipe out entire spawns of rancors in no time, resulting in a mammoth stack of hide/meat/bone/whatever. I know I can take out most of the nightsister groups (even now) singlehandedly, and walk away with more clasps, leather, lances, axes and other piles of loot than I can ever use or sell. But, for the most part, I really prefer instead to hang out in a cantina chatting with passers by, sitting around a house with friends and talking, or heading off in a small group and attacking the Geo Caves. I can solo most of the content in this game, but it's just so much more fun to do in a group.Look, I'm not about to sit here and tell you what you need to take out of this game. You pay your monthly access fee same as me, and are entitled to your fun, whatever way you may derive that. I just ask that you may take a step back and look at the big picture once, even if you don't agree with my take on it, and ask yourself if everyone playing in god mode is what you dreamed of when you first started, or if you thought, as I still do, of having groups of people heading out and exploring, attacking, healing, and having fun together.
TennerRavenstar
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:58 am
#35
@aradz, what a good post. I belive it sums up my feelings remarkably well.
@Morningbrood
Morningbrood wrote:
I really don't see how anyone can believe this is a good thing.
Just like irl the spammers will figure out a way to spam, however I sat done and thought about it here is a short list of things I will no longer be able to do without the macro/ui action toolbar command.
auto armor on/off (who like to sit there and click on that manually)
cob (with a 30 sec timer this cmd is useless if you cant repeat it automatically)
change fighting styles easily (right not i just hit f7 to change the toolbar to pistol from tk and equip my new weapon)
make sure i take bivoli before each buff (can't tell ya how many re-applies i had to do before i added this to my buff macro)
Those were just the things off the top of my head, really i don't see this change as a positive in any way only making game play annoying for those of us that would rather interact with the other players and not button mash all day.
Just my 2cr.
I'm not sure how the changes would affect any of the examples you mention above.
The armor on/off, why would you loop such a macro? I mean I would assume you have a macro that presses a given tool bar slot, pauses press the next and so on until the armor is equipped or removed? If so, it's not looping and as such should be unaffected.
The CoB macro wouldn’t be able to loop itself, true, but there is nothing that would prevent you from writing a simple CoB macro that could run for, say 10 min, or for that matter 30 min or an hour. As a warning near the end, telling you that the macro will need to be restarted in a minute.. Restarting a CoB macro once every half hour or so really wouldn’t be that much of a problem I would think?
Again, you wouldn’t need to loop a macro like that. Line one calls the toolbarslot where you bravoli is places, the following lines calls the 'enhance self' command followed by an appropriate pause.. repeated 6 times and your done. No need to loop itself as far as i can tell?
The change wont really have any major effect on a player at the keyboard, it might require you to press an extra button once every 10 minutes or so, depending on what your doing, but aside form that there’s really nothing you couldn’t do that your able to do now. The real limitation comes when you want to be able to completely avoid using the keyboard for hours at a time (thus AFK macroing).
Heck it would even be quite possible to have a macro keep you in game for a long span of time without looping anything. The game wont log you out for about 15 mins or so of inactivity. Simply put a 10 min pause between every line in the 'stay in game macro' and you would have no problem having a macro keep you from auto logging for a good afternoon of not playing
The bottom line is that a macro ban be long.. REALLY long actually if you call it through a txt file (i forget the command to do so in game, haven’t used it in a long while). But there is few of the tasks macros are typically used for that couldn’t be accomplished in a couple of hundred lines of code if needed.
As long as your macro is used to support your game play rather than replace it, I can't see any situation where the new system would work just fine.
The armor on/off, why would you loop such a macro? I mean I would assume you have a macro that presses a given tool bar slot, pauses press the next and so on until the armor is equipped or removed? If so, it's not looping and as such should be unaffected.
The CoB macro wouldn’t be able to loop itself, true, but there is nothing that would prevent you from writing a simple CoB macro that could run for, say 10 min, or for that matter 30 min or an hour. As a warning near the end, telling you that the macro will need to be restarted in a minute.. Restarting a CoB macro once every half hour or so really wouldn’t be that much of a problem I would think?
Again, you wouldn’t need to loop a macro like that. Line one calls the toolbarslot where you bravoli is places, the following lines calls the 'enhance self' command followed by an appropriate pause.. repeated 6 times and your done. No need to loop itself as far as i can tell?
The change wont really have any major effect on a player at the keyboard, it might require you to press an extra button once every 10 minutes or so, depending on what your doing, but aside form that there’s really nothing you couldn’t do that your able to do now. The real limitation comes when you want to be able to completely avoid using the keyboard for hours at a time (thus AFK macroing).
Heck it would even be quite possible to have a macro keep you in game for a long span of time without looping anything. The game wont log you out for about 15 mins or so of inactivity. Simply put a 10 min pause between every line in the 'stay in game macro' and you would have no problem having a macro keep you from auto logging for a good afternoon of not playing
The bottom line is that a macro ban be long.. REALLY long actually if you call it through a txt file (i forget the command to do so in game, haven’t used it in a long while). But there is few of the tasks macros are typically used for that couldn’t be accomplished in a couple of hundred lines of code if needed.
As long as your macro is used to support your game play rather than replace it, I can't see any situation where the new system would work just fine.
Message Edited by TennerRavenstar on 08-07-2004 01:01 PM
GuardianHawk
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:32 am
#36
In many ways removing repeating macros would be a good thing if they actually could do it. I however don't believe it is possible. Sure they can make all sorts of changes to their software but I don't believe anyone has ever been able to stop this behavior. There are just way to many ways around what the developers can control. Has anyone ever heard of third party programs that can macro? How about players that happen to be programers for a living and decide to write a little code themselves? How about just laying something over the keyboard to hold down a key?
I simply don't believe they can stop it, and by trying they only restrict the "cheating" sort of behavior to the people that are really good at it. Thus making it even more unfair by making the gap wider between those that make the effort to get around the system and those that try to play by the rules and have fun.
cairnsb
Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:18 am
#37
unless your a buff bot...this nerf will not really impact master doctors
Rudoku
Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:42 pm
#38
Out of pure spite.
Jedi2k wrote:
and why would you want to keep your character online when your not in front of the keyboard for an extended period of time.
Jedi2k
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:23 am
#39
Wellto me I don't care either way about macros
I sit at my keyboard and buff by pressing the hotkeys and i have a window to show when my Bivoli is up so i can press another hotkey to eat some more.
and why would you want to keep your character online when your not in front of the keyboard for an extended period of time.
I found an easy way to not get logged off i hit the num lock key to start running and put myself ina corner so i run constantly in a corner until i come back from whatever made me leave the keyboard in the first place and stop running and i didn't have to make up some macro to do it.
some times the simpler things are better
my too cents
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