Doctor Archive
Thread: Views on Docs with Area heals vs CM... etc etc flame me
Gnuut wrote:What you all don'tunderstand is CMs are not asking to be damage dealers or devastating in PVP.We want our profession to be worth 169 points that we spend to master it.Area Heals? Doesn't cut it. Does for meRanged Heals? Doesn't cut it. Does for meMind Heals? Doesn't cut it. Does for me, one of my favorite abilitiesPoison and disease in it's current form? You guessed it. Doesn't cut it. Does for me
Message Edited by Ariven on 08-03-2004 11:18 AM
Songe wrote:
apocc wrote:
**edit**...CM's can already throw poison or disease with 1.6k damage per tick...probably even higher than that, but the highest i've seen was 1.6k....and now you want doctors to not be able to heal them? so, once they nerf buffs...whats our use gonna be? doctors are to heal and cure poisons and diseases..thats what they do. you must be an imperial, because on my server they never travel overt without a CM with them
That's pure BS. You've ever been a CM? The venoms that make this kind of poison are very rare. Most CMs don't have them, and it's BS that people like you keep misinforming everyone.
What I think is funny is every time I see a discussion about this the power of those poisons and diseases goes up... first was 900 a tick, then 1000, then 1100, now its 1.6k...
where can I get those fantastic poisons?
I know on Valcyn at one point we had a 1800 mind fire running around for a while, but it was off of a legendary weapon, Not a CM thrown poison.
Ariven wrote:
What I think is funny is every time I see a discussion about this the power of those poisons and diseases goes up... first was 900 a tick, then 1000, then 1100, now its 1.6k...
where can I get those fantastic poisons?
KingLuka wrote:I know on Valcyn at one point we had a 1800 mind fire running around for a while, but it was off of a legendary weapon, Not a CM thrown poison.Ariven wrote:
What I think is funny is every time I see a discussion about this the power of those poisons and diseases goes up... first was 900 a tick, then 1000, then 1100, now its 1.6k...
where can I get those fantastic poisons?
Well my toughest (venom based) mind disease hits for pretty darn low unless you have BF.. with 150-200 bf it hit a guildie for 900, but without that its 400ish...
not that bad when facotoring in the delay before the tick...
The looted weapons are annoying to run into..
especially when someone has multiples to stack DOTs on you..
Oh great another NERF THE DOCS, and LETS GIVE CM'S DOCS ABILITIES post
stop whining about CM being nerfed already!!!
Docs do pratice on the battlefield and in the front line in RL so if you want proof they should have the skills they have there it is.
and Combat medics in RL only have basic medicall skills, so they can't give anti-toxins and disease cures in the range that doc's canor any advanced cure like that, they just can't carry them they have limited abilities.
This post was not about nerfing docs, but creating balance between docs vs cms. Once docs recieve innoculations and area cures, a single doc who costs less skill points will be able to hold off multiple cms who cost more. A docs value has greatly increased while a cm is clearly not worth 169 skill points. The devs have been hesitent on telling professions their role in swg and the gcw. Are docs ment for combat? Untill a devs posts yes docs are a combat oriented healing profession this point will have no backing, only critisim on both sides. As it stands a doc is able to prep combatants before the fight, heal on the front lines more effective then cms, and patch everyone up in the end. CMs on the other had have no before or after roles of combat. Many cms feel that giving docs both area cures and area heals, they are treading on our only area of importance. I can see docs getting innoculations but area cures would be more suited to cms.
In my opinion I think docs should be limited to single target cures and heals but powerful enough to instantly remove the most potent poisons and douse the strongest fires. A doc would have the tools if he or she choose to venture on the front lines. CMs on the otherhand would be more suited for combat healing and support. A cm should be given ranged area cures and area cure states. These cures would not nearly be as strong as doc cures but strong enough to increase the life expectancy of the group.Poisons should not dominate pvp but still be felt in the long run as they are forms of attrition. Docs and cm would have their roles.
No ones whining except maybe you. This post is ment for a constructive debate. Critism is expected. If you want to voice your opinion in this matter then by all means do so.
Its difficult using real life situations where they dont belong. If someone throws an airborn poison at you, in real life you could simply hold your breath and get out of the cloud. The same applys to non real life situations. How does wookie armor made of twigs and bamboo resist fire? No one knows.
For the sake of the discussion lets say your right. Now go to the hospital and pick up a highly skilled doctor. Put him on the battlefield and tell him to do his thing. Theres dying people all around you, bullets fly by your head and explosions in the background. With that kind of stress a doctor would crack. Now take a combat medic. Hes been trained to deal with the battle field stress. Now he wont be as effective as a doc whos been given suitable conditions (MASH style encampments) but he would do his best to prolong the life of the wounded and dying.
Combat medics are army corpsman. They are trained in saving and prolonging life. They do have training in small arms. A doctor would have his operating table and his tools. He would work slow but diligently on the patient. A cm on the other had would plug the holes, reduce the blood loss. stabilize the person long enough to be moved to a hospital, and move on. He'd help those he could and ease the pain of those he cant.
Theres a big difference between the cm of the real world and the cms of swg. Docs who technicly shouldnt be on the battlefield have field surgon as a title. CMs who should technicly be field surgons have chemical weapons specialist.
DR=80, MA=30, OQ=884, SR=162, UT=107
» Marked as available on Lok 7 days ago by Milos
Message Edited by TenshiHanaKinu on 08-03-2004 04:04 PM
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Janta blood is just as difficult to obtain as Spider Venom.
Janta Blood has the chance to drop off ANY Janta. Spider Venom has the chance (rarely) to drop off a single possible spawn in the whole game EVERY TWO HOURS. Knowing that, how can you say that Janta Blood is more difficult to obtain than Spider Venom?
Gnuut wrote:
Janta Blood has the chance to drop off ANY Janta. Spider Venom has the chance (rarely) to drop off a single possible spawn in the whole game EVERY TWO HOURS. Knowing that, how can you say that Janta Blood is more difficult to obtain than Spider Venom?
This is so true. Janta Blood can drop off any Janta. There is even a POI cave full of Jantas.
apocc wrote:
**edit**...CM's can already throw poison or disease with 1.6k damage per tick...probably even higher than that, but the highest i've seen was 1.6k....and now you want doctors to not be able to heal them? so, once they nerf buffs...whats our use gonna be? doctors are to heal and cure poisons and diseases..thats what they do. you must be an imperial, because on my server they never travel overt without a CM with them
Really? Wow, I've been a MCM/MD for eons and I've never seen that. You must be special.
TenshiHanaKinu wrote:
Just as powerful AoE cures will be rare on some servers.
As long as it can be harvested instead of dropped loot, it'll be a LOT more easily to obtain than Spider Venom.
That's just a simple fact.
For example:
The Lokian Bone is at OQ 950. OH! Let's harvester 200000000000 units multiply that by 2000000000 people on your server thus no more rare than the Avian meat that you use for your buff packs.
Unless you start using dropped loot for those AoE Cure Cs then it'll be much more balanced.
So you point here is extremely moot.
SolSpur wrote:
Oh great another NERF THE DOCS, and LETS GIVE CM'S DOCS ABILITIES post
stop whining about CM being nerfed already!!!
Docs do pratice on the battlefield and in the front line in RL so if you want proof they should have the skills they have there it is.
and Combat medics in RL only have basic medicall skills, so they can't give anti-toxins and disease cures in the range that doc's canor any advanced cure like that, they just can't carry them they have limited abilities.
This post was not about nerfing docs, but creating balance between docs vs cms. Once docs recieve innoculations and area cures, a single doc who costs less skill points will be able to hold off multiple cms who cost more. A docs value has greatly increased while a cm is clearly not worth 169 skill points. The devs have been hesitent on telling professions their role in swg and the gcw. Are docs ment for combat? Untill a devs posts yes docs are a combat oriented healing profession this point will have no backing, only critisim on both sides. As it stands a doc is able to prep combatants before the fight, heal on the front lines more effective then cms, and patch everyone up in the end. CMs on the other had have no before or after roles of combat. Many cms feel that giving docs both area cures and area heals, they are treading on our only area of importance. I can see docs getting innoculations but area cures would be more suited to cms.
In my opinion I think docs should be limited to single target cures and heals but powerful enough to instantly remove the most potent poisons and douse the strongest fires. A doc would have the tools if he or she choose to venture on the front lines. CMs on the otherhand would be more suited for combat healing and support. A cm should be given ranged area cures and area cure states. These cures would not nearly be as strong as doc cures but strong enough to increase the life expectancy of the group.Poisons should not dominate pvp but still be felt in the long run as they are forms of attrition. Docs and cm would have their roles.
No ones whining except maybe you. This post is ment for a constructive debate. Critism is expected. If you want to voice your opinion in this matter then by all means do so.
I am not whining actually, Have you seen how many posts like this have poped up since the balanced CM???? Some ppl cannot accept that Doc is fine as they are! and CM are now balanced!
Its difficult using real life situations where they dont belong. If someone throws an airborn poison at you, in real life you could simply hold your breath and get out of the cloud. The same applys to non real life situations. How does wookie armor made of twigs and bamboo resist fire? No one knows.
For the sake of the discussion lets say your right. Now go to the hospital and pick up a highly skilled doctor. Put him on the battlefield and tell him to do his thing. Theres dying people all around you, bullets fly by your head and explosions in the background. With that kind of stress a doctor would crack. Now take a combat medic. Hes been trained to deal with the battle field stress. Now he wont be as effective as a doc whos been given suitable conditions (MASH style encampments) but he would do his best to prolong the life of the wounded and dying.
and in RL they would never send a DOC who hasn't had experience into combat area's inthe front lineunder no circumstances!that is gained by exposure in various degrees over time to get the doc acustom to it, same goes for a CM. CM's are not instantly imune to the effects of combat going on around them.
Docs that act as field surgeons will have had similar training as CM's but will not be expected to get involved in any combat! so all there skills and equipement will be for treating paitients!
this could lead to you saying that the docs in SWG are more like Civilian Docs but I would say that that taking up a combat prof with Doc like Swordsman (In my case)when you toe-to-toe with enemies all the time,would classify you as a MASH style Doc as you see bullets and combat all the time!
Combat medics are army corpsman. They are trained in saving and prolonging life. They do have training in small arms. A doctor would have his operating table and his tools. He would work slow but diligently on the patient. A cm on the other had would plug the holes, reduce the blood loss. stabilize the person long enough to be moved to a hospital, and move on. He'd help those he could and ease the pain of those he cant.
Theres a big difference between the cm of the real world and the cms of swg. Docs who technicly shouldnt be on the battlefield have field surgon as a title. CMs who should technicly be field surgons have chemical weapons specialist.
I agree tho with what your saying about the CM's role in RL BUT one thing you missed I know they prelong life but they cannot do the advanced stuff that a hardened, like cure diseases and poisons, because of the situations there inand the fact there expected to fight alongside there fellow soldier. so my original point is totally valid! they simply cannot carry them due to there other equipment (weapons etc)
Docs with field surgeon training are more likean advanced CM than the doc's u see in hospitals, they will have had training and experience in combat zones, but without the expectation of being involved in the fighting.
but I agree there is a vast difference between RL and SWG CM's but you cannot give a class with poisons & disease the ability to cure them also expecially not area based cures, it would unbalance the game to much.
maybe as a compromise Doc get good AoE cures and powerfull single target 1cures but CM could get a weaker version of the single target cures, would allow them to cure poisons and disease but not as effectively. but then on this path doc could use mild poison and disease packs as doc's also know what poisonous to the human body
Now area heals are a good CM abitlity and perhaps CM's should be reliant on Docs for a componet for them if there added, like Doc's are with CM's with the new area cures
yebach wrote:
Gnuut wrote:
Janta Blood has the chance to drop off ANY Janta. Spider Venom has the chance (rarely) to drop off a single possible spawn in the whole game EVERY TWO HOURS. Knowing that, how can you say that Janta Blood is more difficult to obtain than Spider Venom?
This is so true. Janta Blood can drop off any Janta. There is even a POI cave full of Jantas.