Doctor Archive
Thread: Avian prices on servers
Rere
Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:00 pm
#14
BountyHunts wrote:
You must have some persistent rangers/scout, all I hired to do tat, went dead after they harvest like 1 - 2k
I wish they were a lot more persistent actually. 
But what I did was rely mostly on the newbies in Mos Eisley, Tat. I placed a merchant bot there explaining VERY well what they should do. Nunas are very easy to kill critters, lots of them took interest. And even though apparently no oneendured to hunt those silly creatures for more than 1-3k worth of meat, in the end it added up to many hunters.
Kyreal
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:12 pm
#15
starsider has yet to see a triple 900 + avian meat. the last 4 good avian spawns were
yathithi yavin avian 900pe/725oq bought a supply at 75cpu.
rahi rori avian 900oq/880pe bought a small supply at 150cpu (docs were offering up to 250cpu for this but due to rori spawn rates, not much was to be had)
Ogam Dath avian 900oq/850pe/800dr bought a nice supply at 150cpu (docs offering upwards to 225cpu for this while in shift)
Beesrough Naboo avian 900oq/800pe small supply at 150cpu (docs offering over 250cpu for this)
still waiting on a triple 900 + avian to spawn, and hope to god its on lok, dath or naboo if its on rori or tat, ill be highly HIGHLY annoyed.
note, stats are generalized not exact on these meats.
p.s. on the Eclipse server, Ewid, my guild's former crafting doc offered unlimited contracts for the pisro and apriemi avians believe it was 100-150cpu as i remember, got well over a mil units of each and made hundreds of millions of creds over his time in his business. however hes retired and moved on to WoW now.
EtosG
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:34 pm
#16
Here on Euro-Chim, it's like this:
200-250-300 CPU for current Avian "Onawhae", with stats that look like:
DR: 698 PE: 993 OQ: 964
Everyone started buying at 150 CPU.....within a day it was 250 CPU
Trouble is, we all try to get ahead by offering more.....but in reality, that increase always gets matched by everyone else and it just goes on from there. At the end of the day, we all end up in the same situation....only offering 100-150 CPU more
Never makes sense to me tbh.
200-250-300 CPU for current Avian "Onawhae", with stats that look like:
DR: 698 PE: 993 OQ: 964
Everyone started buying at 150 CPU.....within a day it was 250 CPU
Trouble is, we all try to get ahead by offering more.....but in reality, that increase always gets matched by everyone else and it just goes on from there. At the end of the day, we all end up in the same situation....only offering 100-150 CPU more
Never makes sense to me tbh.
Roustabout
Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:29 pm
#17
Our best Tempest (triple 950's I think) went for 1005cpu on the trade forums...it's from Febuary I think.
Normally our pricing wars get to about 120 - 150cpu for the really really good stuff in spawn....and we only sell our buffs for about 120k/set....
BraindG
Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:12 am
#18
At the end of the day its a case of reputation. You need to pay that kind of money to keep YOUR business up and running. People need to rely on you for their meds and buffs.
If i was to buy some avian for say 600CPU (nearly 3 triples) and i also bought Herb at say 70CPU (OQ 900's) you would make a buff at the cost of around 16.5k - you sell for 25k each - which is 8500 Profit.
But you need the cash to buy it initially..
It takes money to make money.
The Rich get richer.
Ledao
Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:56 pm
#19
EtosG wrote:
[...]
Everyone started buying at 150 CPU.....within a day it was 250 CPU
Trouble is, we all try to get ahead by offering more.....but in reality, that increase always gets matched by everyone else and it just goes on from there. At the end of the day, we all end up in the same situation....only offering 100-150 CPU more
Never makes sense to me tbh.
Offering more money does actually have a purpose -- even assuming that one's competition will match any public offer. As the price of a meat increases, so too does the number of people willing to hunt it, as well as the time that they spend hunting it.
So, the more we pay, the greater the general supply will be. The beneficiaries of this, of course, are only those who can afford the initial outlay of cash... As the above poster illustrated, there is plenty of room within any server's enhance pack pricing framework to absorb ever-increasing meat costs.
Then, to return to the original point of the thread...
Valcyn has had one Avian meat that's head and shoulders above the rest:
Bicre. 965oq, 976pe, 836dr. There was one other meat with oq and pe close to Bicre, but its dr was 7...
So Bicre spawned on Rori, around February or maybe early March. There's very little of it left, although I had a fair bit of luck buying it a couple of months ago for 750-ish cpu (via standing offer at that price -- 750 cpu turned out to be enough to get people to dig through their stuff looking...).
Everything else falls into the 100-400 cpu range...
So, is 750 cpu rediculous for avian meat? Not at all... First of all, that's a per-pack cost of 16.5 - 21k (for health packs). Now, given that packs made with whatever's decent and recent sell for 15-25k (depending on how decent, of course), it isn't unreasonable to suppose that packs made with this one meat that's light-years better than all the others would sell for a bit more... In fact, the last time I made a run of non-enhanced packs with Bicre, I sold the entire run in 2 days at 50k per pack.
Anyway, here's my parting shot:
It makes economic sense for Docs to buy as much avian meat as they can, whenever they can, for just about whatever it might cost. I have yet to see anyone sell an enhance pack at a loss, and I don't expect to. Saying that we're "shooting ourselves in the foot", or some such thing, by inflating meat prices, is disingenuous at best. There is quite a bit at work here besides mere price wars...
TheRockStar
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:03 am
#20
FarStar hasn't had stats of that calibre spawn in a long long time, but if it did I doubt I could afford to buy any! I have chosen to keep novice scout for such a spawn, it amazes me the prices people will pay for the stuff.
EtosG
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:32 pm
#21
Ledao wrote:
EtosG wrote:
[...]
Everyone started buying at 150 CPU.....within a day it was 250 CPU
Trouble is, we all try to get ahead by offering more.....but in reality, that increase always gets matched by everyone else and it just goes on from there. At the end of the day, we all end up in the same situation....only offering 100-150 CPU more
Never makes sense to me tbh.Saying that we're "shooting ourselves in the foot", or some such thing, by inflating meat prices, is disingenuous at best. There is quite a bit at work here besides mere price wars...
I take your points, well made as they are.
Clearly, increasing the CPU offer will get more rangers out of bed....or so to speak
But i would argue that by hyper-inflating meat prices we are not necessarily shooting ourselves, as Docs in the foot. We are more importantly shooting the customer in the foot and the economy as a whole. Especially with the new solo grp nerf coming into place shortly, it is important to try and keep your server economy in check. Sure we can pay through the roof for meats and then charge through the roof for buffpacks...for us, we loose no profit and as you rightly state: I neither have ever heard of anyone not making any profit from the sale of an enhance pack. But i do feel it's important to look outside 'our economy' and into the server wide economy....imo hyper-inflation of any market/economy can never be a good thing in the long run. Especially in light of the solo nerf....we may not feel the affects of this, working mainly as crafters (with possibly large bank balances already in place). But to the average Doc/Person 'on the street', hugely inflated buffpack prices could cause a real problem. My final point would be, it is also important to remember that certainly from my experience, most Rangers/Scouts actually collect the meats and then distribute them at the end of the spawn. I have always found this to be the case and so have all other crafters i know. So when someone jumps into panick mode, 2 days into a spawn...i really dont think it's necessary. Of course that could be seen as a risk, to hold it out and hope/pray your prediction comes true and it flows in at the end. But i have to say, i have always taken that risk and it's always paid off. For example, on the last Herb spawn we had....i was offering a 'middle of the market' CPU price...i actually got next to none, nothing until the end of the spawn where i recieved well over 300k. Of course this means i can/do always sell my packs at a very good/low price within context of the current market climate.
Anyway, i thank you for your response, some very good points and very well put
Message Edited by EtosG on 11-18-2004 02:36 AM
Minirova
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:56 pm
#22
Do servers share meat spawns? If so, is there even a good spawn right now?
Roustabout
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:31 pm
#23
Minirova wrote:
Do servers share meat spawns? If so, is there even a good spawn right now?
No
Ledao
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:55 pm
#24
EtosG wrote:
[...]
Especially with the new solo grp nerf coming into place shortly, it is important to try and keep your server economy in check. Sure we can pay through the roof for meats and then charge through the roof for buffpacks...for us, we loose no profit and as you rightly state: I neither have ever heard of anyone not making any profit from the sale of an enhance pack. But i do feel it's important to look outside 'our economy' and into the server wide economy....imo hyper-inflation of any market/economy can never be a good thing in the long run. Especially in light of the solo nerf....we may not feel the affects of this, working mainly as crafters (with possibly large bank balances already in place). But to the average Doc/Person 'on the street', hugely inflated buffpack prices could cause a real problem. My final point would be, it is also important to remember that certainly from my experience, most Rangers/Scouts actually collect the meats and then distribute them at the end of the spawn.
[...]
Message Edited by EtosG on 11-18-2004 02:36 AM
Now, I agree with everything you've said, but I'm going to take issue with one thing that you've assumed: viz. that there is a more or less direct relationship between meat costs and buffpack prices.
Certainly, some aspects of the economy have inflated dramatically over the year and a half the game's been running. But, I don't think the prices of our products are one of these aspects.
On Valcyn (and again, I'll speak of what I know here and assume that this applies at leastsomewhat everywhere else, specifics aside), buffpacks became widely available roughly a year ago -- november -- due to the simultaneous spawnsof our first-ever spawn of meat that allowed for 900-power packs, and our first decent class 4 petro. At the time, I think there was only one person selling any real volume of them commercially, DrBill, who charged 20k per pack. I was primarily a pvper at that point, and so only selling stims by special order (and boy do I wish it hadn't taken me so long to drop combat and take up surveying...), but I did sell sets of buffs -- for 15k a set. Last november.
I started selling enhances in maybe late February... When I opened, enhances were 18-25k per pack (though I think I only sold bicre packs made beforeI had extra experimentation pointsfor 25k -- they were 40k per not too long after that stuff shifted out). Now I think I sell enhances for 20-25k per, and the only reason I don't have any cheaper isthat I've been too lazy to make 'em. As I said above, I've sold more expensive packs as well, but that's really a special case:the "best"whatever isalways worth a significant premium over a merely "good" whatever.
Further, DrBill and I have the highest prices on the server. Bar none. He's higher on some things, I'm higher on others, but I've seen enhance pack prices from the many smaller suppliers as low as 12k per pack, and frequently in the 15-18k range. So I will certainly assert that, on the whole, enhance pack prices have dropped over the past year.
That all being said, of course meat prices have been rising steadily for most of the year as well. I'll not rehash why, as I assume that's been covered, but I will try to recall my server's numbers...
Avian meat started out in the 50-75 cpu range (and here I'm probably only going back to February or March, which is when multiple docs started trying to buy stuff publicly), and Herb meat in the 30-50 cpu range. Prices for both rose gradually, with Avian peaking once at 225 cpu in spawn (and 420 cpu 2 days after it shifted out), then leveling off around 150. I think I already bought all the Bicre, and so I haven't seen an auction go over 300 cpu in quite a while. Herbivore meat prices rose more gradually, peaking at 85 cpu for a Lok spawn, and no one's bought any since (trust me, don't offer 85 cpu for lok herb unless you're prepared to drop another factory to store it all... hehe). I imagine it'll stay in the 60-75 range from here on out, maybe lower if the mission payout changes have a significant effect.
Anyway, overall, I'd say there's been a 100-125% increase in the mean cost of meatin the length of time I've been buying it. But there's been no corresponding increase in prices... Am I just making less money?
I don't think so... As I see it, two main forces are at work. The main one is the remarkable availability of extracted resources. Last November, I was out there with a couple of personal harvesters on that good class 4 petro. Now, when something important pops, between my lots and those of friendsor paid miners, I might have 40 heavy harvs on it. And the same with everyone else. So there's lots of everything, and it's cheap. Much more so than before. The days of paying 100 cpu for Class 4 petro are gone forever, because there's 10 billion units of it out there -- ya' just have to find someone to sell it to you.
But that's only one factor keeping overall costs down. The other is simply longevity. In this game, the longer you exist as a crafter, the cheaper it becomes to producetop qualityproduct. For one simple reason: the ratio of things that you have either harvested yourselfor purchased at a negligible cost (and 3 cpu is negligible when you're selling something for 60 cpu) to things that were expensive to acquire increases over time (assuming decent business practices...). Every time a good new doc resource spawns, our costs have all dropped.
Alright. So that was a really long-winded way of saying: you're right, hyper-inflation is bad, but I don't think it's happening to docs, in spite of the perception of rapidly rising costs. 
Legende
Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:55 am
#25
Raeannna wrote:
DFA-FrstbyteOO wrote:Eclipse has two avians that are very high priced, 600 cpu + for Pisro and now Aieprema is getting to be 550 ish cpu. Granted they have been out of shift for months, and have near perfect stats.Another person asked how we can make any money with buffs with the current prices for avian.. well that question right there is the reason you see threads about raising buff prices and the cause of some heated arguments it seems. Answer simply put is, you cannot, unless you charge the reciepient of these buffs more.I price my packs by what resources I used and how much they cost me to make. The more that goes up, the more my packs will cost, and the more people will try to charge to apply the buffs. If I were a public buffing doc, I would vary my price by how much I had to pay for the packs I use. My 2620 / 3:27 min buffs are gonna cost quite a bit more than 2580 / 2:45 min buffs simply beacuse the resources used to make the higher packs cost me a ton more credits to aquire than the resources used to make the lower packs. The difference in stats for that example do not vary by that much, but the price of the resources DO. People sometimes dont seem to notice the "behind the scenes" costs involved. They just see final stats and a set price to buy em.Yes, I happen to be the sucker who paid the highest amount for avian meat on eclipse.. 700cpu for Pisro..
I bought another large stack for 550cpu a couple weeks later of the same meat...
I heard of a guy who paid 1050cpu or 1100 cpu for avian meat? that's just way too far out of line.
Roustabout:
"Our best Tempest (triple 950's I think) went for 1005cpu on the trade forums...it's from Febuary I think."
Actually, it was 1105 CPU
Raeannna
Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:05 am
#26
Ledao wrote:
EtosG wrote:
[...]
Everyone started buying at 150 CPU.....within a day it was 250 CPU
Trouble is, we all try to get ahead by offering more.....but in reality, that increase always gets matched by everyone else and it just goes on from there. At the end of the day, we all end up in the same situation....only offering 100-150 CPU more
Never makes sense to me tbh.
Valcyn has had one Avian meat that's head and shoulders above the rest:
Bicre. 965oq, 976pe, 836dr. There was one other meat with oq and pe close to Bicre, but its dr was 7...
So Bicre spawned on Rori, around February or maybe early March. There's very little of it left, although I had a fair bit of luck buying it a couple of months ago for 750-ish cpu (via standing offer at that price -- 750 cpu turned out to be enough to get people to dig through their stuff looking...).
Everything else falls into the 100-400 cpu range...
Eclipse has had 3 spawns of expectional good avian meat, I believe our spawn of Pisro Avian happens to be the best on all servers.. But I'm not sure yet Bicre comes close, but our 3 best avians plus our 3 best reactive gases always flood our market which high effective buffpacks So.. duration is what usual determines the cost per pack 
Pisro Dathomirian Avian Meat ~DR 947 PE 971 OQ 987
Isneja Lokian Avian Meat~ DR 198 PE 994 OE 977
Aieprema Nabooian Avian Meat ~ DR 698 PE 994 OQ 969
Oonim Reactive Gas ~ DR 610 OQ 1000
Propoobiteeleeskene Reactive Gas~ DR 695 OQ 994
Methedehiene Reactive Gas ~ DR 833 OQ 981