Doctor Archive
Thread: BUFFS = all challenge taken out of this game.
Snooze821 wrote:
As you know buffs are going to be serverly crippled in the combat rebalance along with armor and the HAM bars.
Yup, and the howls of players will be louder than a herd of huf duns in the streets of Dearic.
Buffs and armor go together; buffs have made armor encumbrance a non-issue for most players. If you are buffed, the purpose of encumbrance is totally obliterated; there is no cost aside from the buff to wear armor. Thus we have all these people running around in 80-90% composite.
It's got to change. While the first poster is unquestionably inflammatory, he's got a valid point. And the point about the sameness of the AI is good as well. Even the Corvette is the same basic pattern of PvE: a hammer beating on a rock, except that the rock fights back in proportion to its size. The devs don't know how to do anything to make things "tougher" than to ramp up the HAM and the damage that the mob deals.
Akaya wrote:
I highly doubt that the devs are dumb enough to make buffs worthless or nerf them, there would be a huge outcry and alot of cancelled accounts i would think. If they totally decimate the value of buffs, then i for one, along with tons of others will most likley cancell thier accounts.
Well, this is of course THE major problem with the "combat rebalance"; the environment was "rebalanced" first (the infamous pub 5, which cripped CH), then the new chef foods were added, and now...
Well, the fact that it's trivial for most players to get a buff for 2 to 3 hours to turn themselves into their own tank for most of the content has taken a lot of the danger out of PvE combat. And, as well all know, most of us avoid PvP like the plague, because it's dominated by the "I pwned u!" crowd of Quake FPS types.
Someone above mentioned that the game was released too early; this is in my opinion correct, having been in the last two months of beta, I know thatit was only towards the end that any significant number of beta testers had made it to the upper reaches of the elite professions, and for the crafters, there wasn't a long enough sample of resources to test out how high end, best possible resources goods such as weapons, armor, and buffs would affect the flow of combat.
Not to mention there were no Jedi in beta, whichdefinitely showed, big time, when the first FS slots were unlocked. The "Jedi revamp" is an unspoken acknowledgement that "internal testing" of Jedi during beta was an abject failure to truly stress that system.
The devs are walking a very thin line. People have become accustomed to having HAM tripling buffs, to having 80%-90% effective composite armor, and to tanking adventure world combat on their own. This is quite a bit different from how the game was played in July and August of last year, where to take on high end content you had to have a CH along, and CH was one of the few elite professions that was working. It worked so well that it had to be nerfed incessantly to make it as broken as the other elites.
Akaya is right that many will cancel their accounts if the combat revamp overnerfs people. For many, any nerf is too much. Just look how the ranged AND melee crowds are screaming to nerf CM because their buffs and armor do not render them invulnerable to CM attacks, therefore CMs are "overpowered". Heck, even Jedi guardians whine about how "overpowered" CMs are. Which translates, basically, to "unless I pwn everyone every time, they are overpowered."
Balance.
Thats it.
Thats the only thing the Dev's should have on their plates right now.
PVE and PVP Balance.
CM's are broke not overpowered.
Their area affect goes through walls and ceilings and floors; you can throw it through walls, and you can throw it two miles.
THAT is why people want it nerfed. You can't even get incapped by a CM.
How would they change?
My prediction is they will take the WORST aspect of DAoC and implement it. i.e. buff bots.
I think they will make it so that Doctor's buff last as long as the doctor who buffed are in the group. Or they will make it so that unless you are grouped with the doctor, and stayed grouped(and close by), the buff will be at 1/2 the strength. While if you are grouped with the doctor, it will be at the current level. PLUS the doctor you are grouped with can buff you anywhere without the need of droids.
This will force good number of people to buy/keep their second account, which is all SoE cares about, as well as limit the number of uber-buff to max of 19 for every doctor in the game. Dev will claim that this is great for doctors as doctor will be one of the most wanted for group as "promote" social interaction.
I am so sure that Dev will use the current noise demanding the change to doctor buff to implement something like this and will say they are doing it because of popular demand.
I can just taste it.
Songe wrote:
I partially agree, but 80% kinetic armor is more to blame IMO.
I do agree that buffs have really taken the challenge out of the game. Whether it be food, doc, whatever the case, its overpowered.
I think I mostly disagreewith the armor idea, but asa Master Armorsmith, I would have quite the biased opinion. Either way, I do see what you are saying, and I can agree on most parts that armor tends to be overpowered. However, armor also has a big downside - HAM costs. Doc buffs don't really have a downside, except the fee, which we all know is easy to recoup with a couple missions. There is no "downtime" after a buff, or any other neglible effect. SOE is probably going to find ways to nerf both buffs and armor, of which I am in full agreement on, but I think a neat way to "nerf" buffs, if they must be nerfed, is to make a downtime afterwards, where you are completely combat ineffective for a time period.
Message Edited by Eurynome on 05-04-2004 09:58 AM
How do you know what is going to happen to buffs with the combat rebalance? Nothing has been said how buffs will be affected, so you are merely just guessing that buffs will be crippled with no proof what so ever.
I highly doubt that the devs are dumb enough to make buffs worthless or nerf them, there would be a huge outcry and alot of cancelled accounts i would think. If they totally decimate the value of buffs, then i for one, along with tons of others will most likley cancell thier accounts.
DarthXanthic wrote:
This post is worthless, all you are doing is crying, not even a positive resolution.
It's the armor and the unbalanced combat classes, NOT the buffs.
/agree
Gimperial666 wrote:
This is retarded. This game is easy with a mastered combat proffesion or two... Whats left after that? Some stupidly hard space dungeon that takes waaaay to many people to do. So then whats the point of running around with all these buffs to make this game even easier?
Theres already ballence issues... and buffs just multiply that by 10. Not just in PVE but most definately in PVP. Evrey one and their mother runs around in 80% (or better composite) and buffed to atleast 2500 for PVP fights... This is getting really old really fast. You cant compete in PvP without them... No matter what your template. I dont feel like spending 10k for a set of buffs that will be gone soon as some guy in 80% composite and his acklay stun batton shows up on my radar... But not spending that 10k means i die even faster.
Its not you doctors fault...its the lack forsight of the devs and utter lack of a real test cycle... I think all this UBER armor and buffs are the biggest problem with this game...Second is the balence issues between classes.
These arnt going to ever get fixed either...
So im done ranting... and closer and closer to not renewing my account.
You are absolutely right. I agree with you 100% and I'm sorry you had to endure all the pathetic bandwagon-jumpers above repeating the "you are crying" post.
The only fault I can pick with your post is that I said this nine months ago. Other than that, you're absolutely right about buffs and the pathetic unchallenging gameplay they produce.
I was the first master doctor on my server after being near-master doctor in beta and writing a guide to the Medic profession. So I was buffing myself in the first month that the game was released and PvE has always been a joke to me (even aside from the poor AI). I completely bypassed the phase of SWG where everyone thought PvE was challenging because I could solo anything from the day in July 2003 when I started buffing.
I dominated PvP until people finally got clued up about buffs and could challenge me. Now I'm just "some guy" that lives or dies in a PvP fight but mostly it's a stalemate because we're both buffed and in 80% composite.
The doctors above are DEAD WRONG to say that armor is the problem. Buffs are half the problem and we need a nerf, and I'm very glad if it's coming in the combat revamp.
MorvenDee wrote:
Gimperial666 wrote:
This is retarded. This game is easy with a mastered combat proffesion or two... Whats left after that? Some stupidly hard space dungeon that takes waaaay to many people to do. So then whats the point of running around with all these buffs to make this game even easier?
Theres already ballence issues... and buffs just multiply that by 10. Not just in PVE but most definately in PVP. Evrey one and their mother runs around in 80% (or better composite) and buffed to atleast 2500 for PVP fights... This is getting really old really fast. You cant compete in PvP without them... No matter what your template. I dont feel like spending 10k for a set of buffs that will be gone soon as some guy in 80% composite and his acklay stun batton shows up on my radar... But not spending that 10k means i die even faster.
Its not you doctors fault...its the lack forsight of the devs and utter lack of a real test cycle... I think all this UBER armor and buffs are the biggest problem with this game...Second is the balence issues between classes.
These arnt going to ever get fixed either...
So im done ranting... and closer and closer to not renewing my account.
You are absolutely right. I agree with you 100% and I'm sorry you had to endure all the pathetic bandwagon-jumpers above repeating the "you are crying" post.
The only fault I can pick with your post is that I said this nine months ago. Other than that, you're absolutely right about buffs and the pathetic unchallenging gameplay they produce.
I was the first master doctor on my server after being near-master doctor in beta and writing a guide to the Medic profession. So I was buffing myself in the first month that the game was released and PvE has always been a joke to me (even aside from the poor AI). I completely bypassed the phase of SWG where everyone thought PvE was challenging because I could solo anything from the day in July 2003 when I started buffing.
I dominated PvP until people finally got clued up about buffs and could challenge me. Now I'm just "some guy" that lives or dies in a PvP fight but mostly it's a stalemate because we're both buffed and in 80% composite.
The doctors above are DEAD WRONG to say that armor is the problem. Buffs are half the problem and we need a nerf, and I'm very glad if it's coming in the combat revamp.
Listen:
I don't give a crap if you were a master doctor on star wars on Atari 2600; time doesn't equate to an understanding of the game (which your case provies).
The MAIN problem with how easy this game is ESPECIALLY in PvP is ARMOR.
The two main combat prof FOTM now are rifleman/fencer (besides the broken CM) and do you know WHY?
Because max stun resist is 42%.
I have armor that is 90/28, and do you know when I die? WHEN MY MIND IS GONE FROM A RIFLEMAN.
All buffs do is offshoot the encumbrance (which they should change, but nerfing buffs overall is NOT the solution).
W/O good armor all a buff does is give you some more hit points to lose, which with any good weapon in this game will take two seconds.
IF this was not the case then you'd see ppl running around buffed either armorless or in Ubese or something of the sort.
Do you know WHY you don't see a lot of composite in PvE? Most mobs do kinetic damage, so you can wear 75% ubese with an 18% base and still own.
Another way to test this is to go fight something unarmored but buffed and then vice versa.
You will last way longer in armor unbuffed then you will buffed with no armor.
The main reason I buff myself when I PvP is to negate the encumbrance, I could care less about my HAM because my armor negates almost all damage done except by stun, which no one can do anything about anyways.
I assure you, they dev's did not forsee 12pt armorsmiths making composite capable of hitting the 90% ceiling as easily as its done now.
You do not have to nerf buffs to make the game more challenging; they need to design better npcs and mobs and seriously BALANCE the combat.
I hate people who cry nerf; nerfing is a neverending cycle. Oh this is too strong, so its nerfed and everyone moves to the next "strongest" so on and so on.
You fix NOTHING by nerfing.
They need to fix the entire way combat works, taking into account how armor/buffs work.
That is what the h/a/m change is.
They aren't nerfing buffs at all.