Doctor Archive

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Snooze821 wrote:

If a Cl80 TKM is pulling less aggro than a Cl58 pistoleer which isn't even firing then something is creating the aggro.

Has anyone tried healing without a weapon equipt? I'll try it tonight.

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Healing damage counts in the Hate system just as if you had done the damage on a mob. As a result you can aquire the agro simply by healing. The reason for this is that a Healer should not be imune to getting attacked.

I like the idea but I dont like the weight they have placed on healing.

I made a request in the Corr forum to change it so that Healing counts as 1/2 as much as damage in the Hate system. This would result in healers getting some agro but not as much as they currently get.

To give an idea of just how bad the heal/hate aggro is:

A friend of mine just joined SWG and is working on levelling up and learning the system, so at his level 9, I follow him around with my level 80 TKM/Doc to help him hunt faster... boy did he, anything that he was fighting, as soon as I healed him one time, aggroed on me and stayed on me while he shot them to pieces.

One heal was enough to have a level 16 mob ignore the damage being done to it and concentrate solely on me, that is a bit off I think.

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Drmojo_ wrote:

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Gastlichu wrote:

Uhmm, I think the heal hate is not too bad. Players still need to learn their roles, sadly until this happens docs are the most affected.

First, you shouldn't be figthing 10 monsters at a time. I would say max 5 and have 2 paralyzed if you want to survive. And that's the beauty of the new system, people need to be on their toes. The tank should be trying hard to keep hate, the crowd controllers should be on their toes to keep the extra mobs inmobilized, and the healers should be careful when to heal. Healing right after the tank engages in combat will give you instant hate. So wait a little bit until he gains agro to heal, it's all about strategy. If you have more than one mob, and you heal your tank and he has not used taunt on them, then yes they will come to you. So he needs to make sure to have hate of all the mobs the group is figthing.

The only heal that I think should be tweaked a little bit is the heal over time, it creates way too much hate for the damage it heals.

Edit: Just re-read and you said accidentally, if it's an accidental pull, then yes I guess you are supposed to die heh. As it was not a controlled situation.

Message Edited by Gastlichu on 05-09-2005 08:51 AM

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Why is there always one like this in every thread? The one who's smarter and better than all the rest who has the answers and it all figured out. Looking down at us from his pedestal like he's the only one who actually plays this game the "right" way... He should be a kindergarten teacher...

It's obvoius that you've not been in combat strictly as a support class. One bacta shot to a tank who is doing damage and the agro will immediately come to you. Sometimes it 3 sometimes it's more. It's wrong and takes the support class out of the roll. I don't know how the algorithm works but healing a combatant should not be equal to doing an area attack with a server best laser rifle and with the current system, that's the way it works. They need to fix it...

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Uhmm, I was giving a suggestion on how the new system works, and how to prevent what is happening to the player. I in no way see myself as better as anyone else, but if something is working for me I'll try to share, especially when someone is having trouble in the way they play.

And let me correct you on something... I play Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, my role in combat is to heal, buff, and debuff. If something goes wrong and we get 10 adds, and I heal I die instantly. So yes, I know how hate works, I know what happens when you get more than 3 monsters at a time, and I know due to experience and dying multiple times how to prevent those events from happening. Yes, our heals genereate a lot of hate, and the job of the tanks is to get more hate than us. I'm lucky to play with a group of people who have understood how this works, it took us a little bit of time to get it straight, but after we did everything worked right. The heals do not need to have hate reduced.

I'm not forcing anyone to play the way I do, like I said the new system allows for a lot of strategies, I'm just pointing the one I use and it works well.

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TallonVoidAhazi wrote:

As a TKM/Master Doc i get very little aggro so it leads me to beleve its the combat profession that makes the difference not the fact your a doc, although i have been in some good groups so far and we have managed to not to aggro more than 2-3 mobs at a time.

Lifeisdeath what combat profession do you have? i am a Master doc/ squad leader. i unequip my blaster and only heal. level 72

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Gastlichu wrote:

Uhmm, I was giving a suggestion on how the new system works, and how to prevent what is happening to the player. I in no way see myself as better as anyone else, but if something is working for me I'll try to share, especially when someone is having trouble in the way they play.

And let me correct you on something... I play Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, my role in combat is to heal, buff, and debuff. If something goes wrong and we get 10 adds, and I heal I die instantly. So yes, I know how hate works, I know what happens when you get more than 3 monsters at a time, and I know due to experience and dying multiple times how to prevent those events from happening. Yes, our heals genereate a lot of hate, and the job of the tanks is to get more hate than us. I'm lucky to play with a group of people who have understood how this works, it took us a little bit of time to get it straight, but after we did everything worked right. The heals do not need to have hate reduced. yes, they do. i am getting FS xp with doc so i dont have the luxury of having the same group everytime. not to mention i can walk next to pikets and they will attack me (yellow, not red). if 5 or so pikets are attacking someone (since they like to aggro) i should be able to heal that person more than once before they all kill me. by the time he would have a chance to taunt them all i would be dead. i doubt reducing it by half would even be enough.

I'm not forcing anyone to play the way I do, like I said the new system allows for a lot of strategies, I'm just pointing the one I use and it works well.

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lifeisdeath wrote:

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Gastlichu wrote:

Uhmm, I was giving a suggestion on how the new system works, and how to prevent what is happening to the player. I in no way see myself as better as anyone else, but if something is working for me I'll try to share, especially when someone is having trouble in the way they play.

And let me correct you on something... I play Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, my role in combat is to heal, buff, and debuff. If something goes wrong and we get 10 adds, and I heal I die instantly. So yes, I know how hate works, I know what happens when you get more than 3 monsters at a time, and I know due to experience and dying multiple times how to prevent those events from happening. Yes, our heals genereate a lot of hate, and the job of the tanks is to get more hate than us. I'm lucky to play with a group of people who have understood how this works, it took us a little bit of time to get it straight, but after we did everything worked right. The heals do not need to have hate reduced. yes, they do. i am getting FS xp with doc so i dont have the luxury of having the same group everytime. not to mention i can walk next to pikets and they will attack me (yellow, not red). if 5 or so pikets are attacking someone (since they like to aggro) i should be able to heal that person more than once before they all kill me. by the time he would have a chance to taunt them all i would be dead. i doubt reducing it by half would even be enough.

I'm not forcing anyone to play the way I do, like I said the new system allows for a lot of strategies, I'm just pointing the one I use and it works well.

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no this learning thing aint treu .. the system is bugt atm

yesterday i wanted to test how strong the agro is toward medic, doc and cm .. as im master of a 3

i got some friend together

1 master rifle/bh

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Gastlichu wrote:

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lifeisdeath wrote:

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Gastlichu wrote:

Uhmm, I was giving a suggestion on how the new system works, and how to prevent what is happening to the player. I in no way see myself as better as anyone else, but if something is working for me I'll try to share, especially when someone is having trouble in the way they play.

And let me correct you on something... I play Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, my role in combat is to heal, buff, and debuff. If something goes wrong and we get 10 adds, and I heal I die instantly. So yes, I know how hate works, I know what happens when you get more than 3 monsters at a time, and I know due to experience and dying multiple times how to prevent those events from happening. Yes, our heals genereate a lot of hate, and the job of the tanks is to get more hate than us. I'm lucky to play with a group of people who have understood how this works, it took us a little bit of time to get it straight, but after we did everything worked right. The heals do not need to have hate reduced. yes, they do. i am getting FS xp with doc so i dont have the luxury of having the same group everytime. not to mention i can walk next to pikets and they will attack me (yellow, not red). if 5 or so pikets are attacking someone (since they like to aggro) i should be able to heal that person more than once before they all kill me. by the time he would have a chance to taunt them all i would be dead. i doubt reducing it by half would even be enough.

I'm not forcing anyone to play the way I do, like I said the new system allows for a lot of strategies, I'm just pointing the one I use and it works well.

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Is not a luxury, the hate does not need to be reduced just because people are still learning how to use their skills. People just need to learn their new roles in groups, this will take time. Once everyone learns how to use their skills, if the hate created by heals is reduced the encounters will be too easy. Right now everything seems hard because people are still learning. =)

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I just disagree. I understand your superior playing style leads you to believe that the hate system for Docs doesn't need to be reduced but I think you're exaggorating to make your point and sticking to it to the end. I understand Area Taunt and the methods that the tanks can use to get aggro. The point is, a 800 heal on a single person should NOT generate enough hate to take the agro to a doctor/combat medic with 110 melee and 100 ranged defenses... Secondly, another bug that makes me not believe you is the ranged agro video glitch. When a doc gets aggroed, the animal doesn't even show that it's following me if I'm in retreat. This makes it very difficult for the tanks to get the agro back. You're intentionally trying to make the new system sound easy "if you understand it" and that's just plain misleading. The hate generated is too high and does need to be reduced. Docs should not generate the MOST hate on the battlefield. I believe that some hate should be generated to make it challenging but not where it is now. Now go away and save the world with your l33t doc skills and quit trying to be a developer fanboi.

Dude, there's no "superior playstyle". And I'm not here to brag about how I play, nor do I need here to come and lie. The first post was about a person having problem staying alive when his group was figthing 8 pikets. There's no way to survive that, and there shouldn't. Hate management is tricky, and will take a little bit of time for people to understand it. Until that happens, the healers will be the most frustrated.

I've always played healer in MMORPGs, I've got quite some experience on controlling my hate, but that is not my job alone, the tank needs to know what to do too. This is no superior playstyle, this is not me telling you how to play, and I'm not trying to be a developer fanboi. I'm sharing my experiences, you can take them if you want. /shrug If by throwing offenses at me you somehow prove your point go ahead. But I'm not here to look better than anyone.

If I was able to heal for more points than my tanks can do in damage then I would say yeah the baddies should turn on me, but that isnt what happens. I am doc/tkm so I can take a good bit of beating before I have to get back ( and like a previous poster said a mysterious animal that I cant see is still doing damage to me ). I watch the combat log and my swordsman/pikeman tank can hit an animal for 3 1000+ damage hits and if I heal her for 800 points the baddie will turn to me. This does need to be fixed IMO.

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KindKnave wrote:
If I was able to heal for more points than my tanks can do in damage then I would say yeah the baddies should turn on me, but that isnt what happens. I am doc/tkm so I can take a good bit of beating before I have to get back ( and like a previous poster said a mysterious animal that I cant see is still doing damage to me ). I watch the combat log and my swordsman/pikeman tank can hit an animal for 3 1000+ damage hits and if I heal her for 800 points the baddie will turn to me. This does need to be fixed IMO.

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What's frustrating is that it's INSTANT. The tank is taking a beating, you step up and heal for 800 and not an instant later a quarter of your health bar is gone. You heal, and before you know it there are 3 or four of them on you and you can't even see them. Red numbers are scrolling above your head as you're running for your life in circles getting beaten to a pulp and finally the inevitable incap...

This system is wrong and will not encourage the "support" class that they're trying to make Doctor/CM in replication of all those "other" games out there like WOW and such. I think it's an interesting concept but not with the hate level as it is.

Also, I'd like to propose another change that may make the support class even better. It would be great to see a bonus for a healer class that is ONLY a healer class. Something like a bonus to defenses if you're Master Medic, Master Doctor, and Master Combat Medic. This would allow the Doc to have a real role that may allow survival in the harder dungeons. There's no force field for Docs so the only way I can see it done like the other games who's support classes have unique defense mechanisms is to give them higher defenses in both melee and ranged but only if they're a FULL support class. Without this and with the hate system so borked, I'm the only one getting incapped in my group and I can tell you right now, in PVP the support class is WORTHLESS. So, if it was their intention to actually have a support class for both PVP and PVE they need to change some things.