Doctor Archive
Thread: In defense of force healing
aabadon wrote:
hamhamthe3rd wrote:
i fought a guythat hadtkm tagbutwas using a mace from kashyyyk. mls/me/healer4040 so near to no defense. this guy was hitting me for over 1k points of damage, and those are the numbers that was being recorded from the combat log. it was shocking and he was the first and onlymeleeperson tohave done that to me,also all his hits were in that damage range so unless he used only specials against me, his normal attacksarepretty good too.
Yah, but WE ALL can get hit like that, i mean, jedi don't have a -200 defense modifier, so if we are hit like that would we get those 1500 helings too??
although this was a group battle even if it wasnt i couldnt have hoped to beat him without being able to absorb the damage he was doing. in fact i didnt beat him and i was healing more times than i was able to attack him. in the end i was forced to root him and more away.rifleman and other ranged builds typically hit me for 700 avg and 1.5k with specials. fought one guy that was averaging 900-ish on his normal attacks with his carbine.
again, that happens to all, not only jedi, no point in this.
so while some may think force healing is too wonderful, it is wonderful for good reason. the fact is, it doesnt take 5 bhs to bring you down, it takes only one.
Oh my... stop using BH's as your excuse... want to counter BH's hunting you?? stay off the terms is better than healing i can swear it.
the offensives disciplines afford the jedi next to no defenses thus he must get his defenses from defender or healer. yes healer is a defensive tool allowing you to absorb a lot of damage so that you dont have to run away from every fight.
and aabadon, you dont seem to have much understanding of how jedi works.
actually i do, i even have a jedi.
You get a whole lot of other useful things for that doctor mastery. Don't even try to pretend healing is all you get.
buellronin wrote:
if you think that dedicating one line 4000 into healing should outheal a master doctor someone who put thier mastery into then you sir are sadly mistaken
aabadon wrote:
Ginx wrote:
I know alot of doc's believe that force healing is too over-poweredcompared to what Doctors can do.
We don't believe it... it IS overpowered.
Yes, and I agreed with that statement below.
And yes it is, but for good reason.
Wanna hear this...
Unlike Doctor, Jedi is primarily a pvp profession (especially at Knight).
You are wrong. All combat professions are pvp professions.
Ture but... no other combat profession is perma overt or has to PvP to advance in the FRS. Jedi Knights are pretty much made soley for PvP as we dont have the skills points to dabble in non-combat professions.
If we get attacked by 5 Bounty Hunters at once, were going to need an edge, those1500 heals, to even have a chance at staying alive.
Want a chance of staying alive???
DON'T GET YOURSELF ON TERMS
Knights too? If so thats not possible or very practical. Now that were forced to group hunt to get XP, it makes that task even moredifficultfor padawans not to get visability.
As a JK myself I can tell you when it comes right down to it, we are not all that powerful.
Without Force Healing we are pretty much on par withnon-Jedi combat professions.
Then Avoid Incap, Channel force, Saber throw, Saber dervish (deals more than 1k damage), Force Valor, Force Speed, Force Run 3 (can go faster than a swoop), Total Heal and force Cloak must be a product of my imagination.
I was referring to Jedi being on par with non-Jedi combat wise butlets Avoid Incap sucks up force power like theres no tomorrow, dervish is useless now, cant fight with Force Run 3 on, Total Heals also uses alot of force, Cloak is pretty much a novelty and useless. Valor is good, I'll give you that.
That may not seem like a big deal but considering we are the only profession with XP loss but with the largest XP grind from anyone, we should be entitled to "some" advantages.
MORE advantages???
If you think our advantages make us so powerful, I can point you out to a couple of TK and Swordsman who, 1 vs 1, will change your mind.
Now we get the same thing with all healing professions be it Jedi Healer, Doctor or Combat Medic (maybe less so CM since they do have a few nice toys from what I can tell). People take the healing line and ignore the rest since it just doesn't cut the mustard. The obvious solution to that is to spread things out a bit more evenly like they did with CH. Put Infusion into another line then the regular heals and spread out the healing effectiveness mods over 2-3 trees.
People will still be able to dabble, but one line shouldn't be nearly as effetive in healing like someone who mastered the profession.
Tigrayne wrote:
Thing people keep doing is confusing too.
Doc's get stomped...so pick up a Defesive Profession, Same for healer.
A Master Doc / Master TK is similar to a Master Healer / Master Defender
Uhh, no it's not. TK brings a master offense to the table. Master healer/defender brings no dmg capability at all.
It's not the same thing.
Sounds to me like the jedi problem has very little to do with needing powerful heals if, as has been pointed out above, force healing isn't enough to take on one MBH then the problem is much more fundamental than needing high healing power. The real problem is that not all jedi combinations are viable, asking to keep powerful heals is not addressing the lack of balance in offensive + defensive skills across the Jedi tree. Again I don't care about comparative healing here, the only thing that matters is that one profession should have a chance of wining a fair fight, if that isn't the case or only a few restricted combinations are capable of surviving then that is a problem. In which case this is completely the wrong forum to come to, you need to be posting about fixes on the Jedi forum not here.
The fact is Jedi are not the univeral yard stick to measure a profession against; professions need to be balanced against each other as a whole. As it is Doc heals are quite puny (Jedi merely highlight this) and we agro like crazy in PvE, this is not a good combination for our profession; doctors who think nerfing Jedi heals will fix our dilemma are quite mistaken, and Jedi who post here saying they need powerful heals are cold comfort. Just please don't do either, I'm sorry Jedi have a hard time but that is how the game is meant to work, if you can secure approval from the fan base to change that then that's great, meantime you can't expect to be able to face down more than one BH when you get on the terms, sorry but there it is.
If it's people moaning about your heals you worry about then don't waste time posting here, no responsible correspondent is going to ask for Jedi healing to be nerfed, as I said the problem is we're rubbish healers not that you are good ones. Furthermore, our Corr has a Jedi Char so will be acutely aware of what is a reasonable request, and is therefore even less likely to make unreasonable demands that Jedi be changed. Otherwise all you do is pick at the wound when you come here to tell us why you need your heals, as they highlight how impotent Doc can be in combat and that isn't going to lead to a constructive discussion or address the underlying issues of your or my Profession.
Gift.
when a jedi is on its own i also see the need that he can heal himself. but why can he heal others in a way no trained and skilled doc can?
its like giving the TKA the ability to heal wounds on others - as he has the ability to heal them on himself. i dont propose to take away the skills of healing others from the jedi, but perhaps reduce the power on healing others, while keeping it on healing himself.
Message Edited by c-mot on 06-09-2005 12:49 PM
Without defender, a jedi has little armour. In PvE, fighting matched level creatures, he will get hit for 300-400 every few seconds. Without the heals how is this player meant to stay alive? Without defender, you will be spamming heal every 3-4 hits and will likely have a very empty force bar before the creature you are attacking is dead. This then gives you 1200 xp. For a full tree of jedi you require 3Million xp. You do the maths.
Without the powerful jedi heals, playing a jedi, especially in the PvE arena, is very difficult. It will furthur force players to be pigeon holed into defender based tempates and will do nothing for game diversity.
Edit: I actually came here in search for information on Doctor because i wish to grind my alt to Master Doc. It is still very powerful.
Message Edited by kaati on 06-10-2005 01:11 AM
Caelrie wrote:
Tigrayne wrote:
Thing people keep doing is confusing too.
Doc's get stomped...so pick up a Defesive Profession, Same for healer.
A Master Doc / Master TK is similar to a Master Healer / Master Defender
Uhh, no it's not. TK brings a master offense to the table. Master healer/defender brings no dmg capability at all.
It's not the same thing.
Note the "similar" TK isn't eacatly like it, Defender, Defends better, anyway.
. It provides protection, but the better the armor, the higher the encumberance. Pre-sliced armor, the armor will have nearly 60% Movement, 40% Rate of Fire, and 20% Accuracy Encumberances (I believe). That meansI am penalized with moving 20% slower, and firing 20% slower. This for approximately 30% damage mitigation.Message Edited by Sarren on 06-09-2005 09:42 AM
Tigrayne wrote:
Master Doc / TKM = Very good tank =)But as I see it, Jedi should keep thier 1500 heals. Just increase the timer to match a Doc's.That way, Healer is more on par with Doctor. Can heal 1.5 times better, mabye a little faster.Most Doc's can pull off 1K heals with gear, so it seems fair.Healer 4000 should heal better than doc 4000 by 1.5 times not better than MDMH should heal 1.5 times better than MD.For balanceJedi should be 1.5 times better at master compared to the equiv masterNot 1.5 times better at 4000 compared to MasterDoc's should be seeing a wound healing increase as well, so that will help immensely.Message Edited by Tigrayne on 06-09-2005 12:22 AM
Awesome point!
Message Edited by Tigrayne on 06-09-2005 12:22 AM