Doctor Archive
Thread: Is OQ/PE formulas bugged? Tell me how I can possibly get this result...
Redfyree wrote:
"its the formula is ends up making the values roughly 50 / 50 on order importance to result not the 66 33 its because the second resource lacks the PE - so in certain situations it ends up this way "
I don't understand this statement
Could you explain it further please?
I think this is what was meant:
Math first, summary at bottom for lazy people.
if you start with resources with all 100s for attributes (for simplicity)
OQ1 100 PE 100
OQ2 100 UT 100
Working through the crafting formula for the power result:
Step 1: average OQ to get 100, only 1 PE so its 100.
Step 2: now apply the 66 - 33 relationship to the above numbers, obviously still 100.
Step 3: somehow this 100 is translated into the final product after the combine to determine power. I would guess that different stims (B, C, D...) have some multiplier alter it into the appropriate range.
Now suppose you have OQ1 be 200 instead of 100:
Step 1: average OQ to get 150, only 1 PE so its 100.
Step 2: now apply the 66 - 33 relationship to the above numbers, it now comes out at 133.33
Step 3: now using that 133.33 for the result of the power equation for final product.
Now suppose you're back to OQ1 being 100, but PE is 200
Step 1: average OQ to get 100. only 1 PE so its 200.
Step 2: now apply the 66 - 33 relationship to the above numbers, it now comes out at 133.33
Step 3: now using that 133.33 for the result of the power equation for final product.
So you can see that by the final result of the equation an equal change in the OQ and the PE have the same result in the end of the equation and are thus really a 50 - 50 relation when looking at the big picture. However keep this mind: This example assumes you have PE on only one resource. If both the organic and the inorganic had PE it would not work this way, it would be truely a 66 - 33 relationship. This is how you should always craft though. Use one resource with PE one with UT.
The UT works exactly the same way as the PE example above.Charges will have a 50 - 50 importance between UT and OQ of the single resource. Be carefull when choosing resources though, because the 50 - 50 thing can be a little misleading. it works fine to maximise either charges or power. For instance 200 OQ 100 UT giving the same charges as 100 OQ 200 UT resource. However the 200 OQ 100 UT will be better for power because of the higher OQ and power is unaffected by UT. So higher OQ is more desirable the resource in that sense.
Summary:
Assume one resource has PE, one has UT
when looking at a single resource and trying to maximize power or charges, --one, not both-- then OQ is exactly the same importance as the PE(for power) or UT(for charges). However, OQ willaffectthe other opposite attribute too (ie the OQ on your PE resource will affect the final charges) so in an overall product view OQ is still more important than PE. Keep that in mind.
Look at it like this:
Power : OQresource 1 - 33%, OQresoure 2 - 33%, PE - 33%
Charges: OQresource 1 - 33%, OQresource 2 - 33%,UT - 33%
This is the best way to look at the resouces to maximize your crafting values in my opinion. Again this assumes only one resource of the two has PE, while the other has UT.
Lyrn
Scylla
It seems this question comes up pretty often (I know I've answered it a few times myself already) so I've tried to add this to the FAQ. Hopefully, my explanation makes sense. You can view it by checking out this FAQ:
How do you know how good a material is for crafting medicines?
Let me know if any changes need to be made for clarity or correctness.
So you can see that by the final result of the equation an equal change in the OQ and the PE have the same result in the end of the equation and are thus really a 50 - 50 relation when looking at the big picture. However keep this mind: This example assumes you have PE on only one resource. If both the organic and the inorganic had PE it would not work this way, it would be truely a 66 - 33 relationship. This is how you should always craft though. Use one resource with PE one with UT.
I thought I prefaced my statements with roughly this same explanation - maybe I didnt I was tired that night as I am tonight
Lumache wrote:
I thought I prefaced my statements with roughly this same explanation - maybe I didnt I was tired that night as I am tonight
well there was a request for further explanation, not trying to step on your toes just spelling it out when someone asks.
Lyrn
It's pretty clear that most doctors (even those that read the forums) don't really understand the implications of this. We have doctors on Scylla going ga-ga over OQ 950 Dantooine Berries. Only problem is they have about 100 PE. o ultimately, they are no better than my stash of 450 OQ, 600 PE berries.
Now the 995 OQ Dolovite that is spawning... 
Component have no idea what the stats were of the resources that made them once they are made. All they have on the is the final numbers give, so Power and/or Charges and that's it.
I've never noticed DR having any effect ont he power of an enhance.
One thing I have long wondered about, though, is that effectiveness and duration both fall under the "experimental effectiveness" umbrella for an enhancement pack. The effective is based on OQ and PE (66%/33%) while the duration is based on OQ and DR (50%/50%). Now, what I wonder is, how does the maximum experimentation percentage calculated?
Perhaps the highest of the two?
I have seen cases (I believe on enhances) where you could experiment on a branch, yet a great success would increase the bar, but not the stat I was looking at. I never paid too close of attention to this, but perhaps this is related to these shared experimenation bars - perhaps the one stat is already maxed out and further experimentation only increases the other stat (based on a different formula).
This is all pure speculation. One more thing to add to my list of things to test.
Happymob wrote:
I have seen cases (I believe on enhances) where you could experiment on a branch, yet a great success would increase the bar, but not the stat I was looking at.
One problem with this is that, when you experiment on effectiveness, it seems that you really experiment twice, once for power and once for duration. So, it may have been that you were looking at power and got a failure while you had a great success on duration. The experimentation results show the average of the two, which might be a good success. The result is that the power stays the same (because of the failure) while the duation goes up, because of the great success.
This item seems to be the most sought after item doctors can make, yet it also remains the biggest enigma of the doctor profession, in my opinion.
mcglonec wrote:
One problem with this is that, when you experiment on effectiveness, it seems that you really experiment twice, once for power and once for duration. So, it may have been that you were looking at power and got a failure while you had a great success on duration. The experimentation results show the average of the two, which might be a good success. The result is that the power stays the same (because of the failure) while the duation goes up, because of the great success.
You think that it actually makes separate "rolls" to determine the success on each stat when you experiment that line? Hmmm... I always assumed that the "great success" would apply equally to both, but you could be right (and it could help explain why there are reports of stats moving in opposite directions on a "success").
Well, this shouldn't be too hard to test either... given some cheap subcomponents and good organic and inorganic, one should be able to pin down what is happening by playing with Enhance A packs (no avian meat required).
You could do one experiment point at a time and track how big the move is for each stat on each type of success. It should be simple to determine if they move independently.
If the decay resistance really stunk, yet the OQ and PE were good, you would have enough difference in the two formulas to see if one caps out before the other as well.