Doctor Archive

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Saera wrote:

As any doctor knows shadowing folks to heal stinks I personally can't wait for the combat revamp, we need grouping again

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Brainplay wrote:

/agree on the armor but the regenerative substats have got to go. They take awaythe need formedic, doctor, and combat medic professions in more ways than you realize.

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KawikaMacGuyver wrote:

I realize the intent is to make the high end content harder, but do we want to make all content harder? or just the high end content harder? Realize that some of the changes may impact the economy, like creature harvesting. With a high demand by docs for herb meat and avian meat..do we want to see furthur inflation because all of a sudden getting we can only now get half the quantity of creature resources that we once did?

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Some veryinteresting points you got here. And I'd have to agree with you that changes should only be applied to make the high end content harder instead of the whole thing. But then again, I really do believe that must be what they have in mind since there will always be players in all kind of combat levels trying to grind their characters up, so making ALL content harder would be a rather radical measure that would most certainly end up discouraging playersto participateinPvE even more.

As for the impact on creature harvesting, if that happen it would really be a mayhem. As if it isn't quite hard to get players interested in hunting in times of JTL,our only option to get large quantities of meat would be to try to organize big hunting groups and thenjust hope that people would actually attend to them. (assuming one would have all the time it takes to organize events like that regularly). Not a very shiny prospect if you ask me.

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Rere wrote:

Some veryinteresting points you got here. And I'd have to agree with you that changes should only be applied to make the high end content harder instead of the whole thing. But then again, I really do believe that must be what they have in mind since there will always be players in all kind of combat levels trying to grind their characters up, so making ALL content harder would be a rather radical measure that would most certainly end up discouraging playersto participateinPvE even more.

As for the impact on creature harvesting, if that happen it would really be a mayhem. As if it isn't quite hard to get players interested in hunting in times of JTL,our only option to get large quantities of meat would be to try to organize big hunting groups and thenjust hope that people would actually attend to them. (assuming one would have all the time it takes to organize events like that regularly). Not a very shiny prospect if you ask me.

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I agree that making the grinding of professions harder would be good. I believe that if the game moves in the direction in the reduction in armor resistances and the change to a special attack pool (similar in use and development as the jedi has),then that will be enough to elimiated the mastering of a profession in a couple of days. Those trying to grind will then need to get used doing things as a group and having along someone to heal.

The impact on creature harvesting is something i was thinking of a couple of weeks ago...along the lines of worse case scenario. There are suggestions that i think that have been suggested for other professions to help the situation. Group harvesting bonus for rangers and the CH's idea for a ranch/kennel type structure that allows them to hold creatures are interesting proposals. For the most part however, i think docs and those professions thatrequire creature resources will still need to rely on hunters for getting us what we need. As tenuous as the situationis already (100 cpu on some lucky servers to as much i think 500 cpu on others), a change in the combat systemwill have a direct impact on this and the devs really need to consider this.

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Aeron-Blackthorn wrote:

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Saera wrote:

As any doctor knows shadowing folks to heal stinks I personally can't wait for the combat revamp, we need grouping again

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Hehehe same here I need to write that shout macro again:

"HOLD STILL %TT OR I WILL LET YOU DROP!!!"

That's why I think the FS quest is fun. You can tell who really knows how to fight a ingroup and who's gotten lazy with god mode.

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The DWB is great for this as well. Iused to run with groupsevery now and then sinceclose to launch,however, the DWB wasthe place where i got to learn how an effective group runs.If you didnt know your stuff, you'd get your a$$ handed to ya...hehe. Oh and docs and CMs are soo loved on those trips ...hehe

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KawikaMacGuyver wrote:

I can see your point. But again, you'd need to factor in the damage you take if armor resistances are dropped down. Regeneration almost becomes irrelavent (almost). It's mostly armor and not regeneration that allows people to solo high end content. Ifregen is higher than the damage taken, sure there's no need for healing. If regen stays the same, but all of a sudden the damage taken becomes higher, then healing will be needed. Take away regen and the gap gets even furthur. The drop would have to be significant for the regeneration to be irrelavent. Thats not including defense, toughness, dodge/counterattack abilities, foods, and especially intimidation. Dropping the % on armor too much and taking on high level content becomes impossible for even a decent sized group. Thats not an option. I never had a problem doing Janta missions wearing 52% chitin because the regen made sure I never dropped below 1/2. Try and take on a balance between PvP and PvE. The possibilities show that either armor wont be lowered that much, buffs will be completely redesigned, or overall damage will be alot less in either category. Then again its all just speculation until it hits TC. There is still very little reason for the substats to be as high as they are now. Heck take away the substats right now even with uber armor and healing requirements skyrocket.

It goes more to what the role of a medic/doc is and when are they needed. A Master level combat profession should not need a medic/doc following them around unless they are taking on high level content, especially if they have basic med skills as well. Higher level content would be things like NS, Krayts, Deathwatch, Black Suns, Force NPCs, Sith Thugs.....roughly things with 50k Hams or higher. Regeneration is useful only up to a point as well. If you're taking 200-500+ damage per second, regeneration will only provide a secondreprieve, maybe 2....which hopefully gives a medic/doc/cm enough time to get around to healing you. No a master level combat profession should not need a medic/doc following them around unless they are doing high level content. They should instead already have that in their template and with the removal of defense stacking (as posted by TH) they'll have many more points available to them. Master level profession or not, taking damage without having to worry about healing is anywhere not something that will help promote grouping or any of the medic profession in general. Huurton howlers still con red to a master TK/ master commando yet they are like mosquitos even in advanced marabi (what one of my toons wore through most of the profession).

I realize the intent is to make the high end content harder, but do we want to make all content harder? or just the high end content harder? Realize that some of the changes may impact the economy, like creature harvesting. With a high demand by docs for herb meat and avian meat..do we want to see furthur inflation because all of a sudden getting we can only now get half the quantity of creature resources that we once did? You're still thinking in a solo mindset. On TC they already nerfed solo groups and I see in the future other methods that will make people want to group. Does that mean people will charge more? Doubtful. The entire economy will be affected but it will balance out. I still blame some of the complete fools that actually have too much money to spend paying 500cpu for resources in public with flashing light making the public think that we are all willing to pay that much.

That also means you'll have to have more guild cooperation and build connections though. Interdepency in the game is only tough if you want it to be. Soloing your way through combat or non-combat professions is a sure way to make it tough.

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Brainplay wrote:

I still blame some of the complete fools that actually have too much money to spend paying 500cpu for resources in public with flashing light making the public think that we are all willing to pay that much.

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Message Edited by Rere on 11-10-2004 10:35 AM

The Veteran (NERFER):

WAH! WAH! WAH!

MOOOOOOOOOMIEEEEEEEEE! No one (snif) will play (snif) with me (snif).

PLEEEEEEEEEZE MOOOOOMMMIE!! (snif) make them (snif) play with (snif) me.


MamaSOE says:

Oh don't you worry my little baby. I'll make everyone HAVE to play with you so you can brag about how long it took you to master. And you can show off those shiny new weapons and all the credits you made on solo missions.


The MOTHER OF ALL NERFBATS is coming out. There is a taste of it already in the killing of solo mission on TC. SOE and the Veterans have decided we have too much money, too much stuff and too easy a life. It's going to get way, way harder(especailly if you're new)and the days of logging on for an hour and making reasonable progress toward anything (other than organizing groups) are over. \

Look at JTL. It is literally impossible to make Master Pilot without the help of AT LEAST 5 -10 DEDICATED friends. All that's left is to see how many cancellations will result.

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captenjonny wrote:
Look at JTL. It is literally impossible to make Master Pilot without the help of AT LEAST 5 -10 DEDICATED friends. All that's left is to see how many cancellations will result. Actually there are reports of people doing the Corvette as a duo and trio.

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And to the meat fool: The comment was more targetted at the harm that becomes of price wars like that. Yeah its understandable that you want some of the good stuff out there. Unfortunately the people that harvest it hear one huge price like that and think its the server standard. It was more of a rant than an attack on people like you.

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captenjonny wrote:
The Veteran (NERFER):

WAH! WAH! WAH!

MOOOOOOOOOMIEEEEEEEEE! No one (snif) will play (snif) with me (snif).

PLEEEEEEEEEZE MOOOOOMMMIE!! (snif) make them (snif) play with (snif) me.


MamaSOE says:

Oh don't you worry my little baby. I'll make everyone HAVE to play with you so you can brag about how long it took you to master. And you can show off those shiny new weapons and all the credits you made on solo missions.


The MOTHER OF ALL NERFBATS is coming out. There is a taste of it already in the killing of solo mission on TC. SOE and the Veterans have decided we have too much money, too much stuff and too easy a life. It's going to get way, way harder(especailly if you're new)and the days of logging on for an hour and making reasonable progress toward anything (other than organizing groups) are over. \

Look at JTL. It is literally impossible to make Master Pilot without the help of AT LEAST 5 -10 DEDICATED friends. All that's left is to see how many cancellations will result.

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Excuse me? I'm one of the "Vets" I'm sure you are talking about since I support nerfing buffs, and not once have I "cried". In fact, every single one of my posts about it has had a decent amount of thought behind it, can you say the same about your posts? Based on this one, obviously not. Why don't you stop trying to attack us and give us a reason why you think your way of playing should prevail over *SOE*'s way of playing. Ya, that's right, even if we didn't want it, SOE would be changing it. Who the hell designs a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER onling RPG to have people play through it solo? Well, you can't answer that, so don't bother trying. If, however, you can give me a good reason why things should stay as they are, *without attacking me or anyone else*, then go for it. However I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Like I said in another post, you want to play a good RPG solo? Get the Neverwinter Nights Platinum pack... original, which is extremly long as it is, and 2 expansions. Plus a few more you can download for a small fee. An MMORPG is not a single player game, and it's time that people stop treating it like it is.

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Brainplay wrote:

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KawikaMacGuyver wrote:

I can see your point. But again, you'd need to factor in the damage you take if armor resistances are dropped down. Regeneration almost becomes irrelavent (almost). It's mostly armor and not regeneration that allows people to solo high end content. Ifregen is higher than the damage taken, sure there's no need for healing. If regen stays the same, but all of a sudden the damage taken becomes higher, then healing will be needed. Take away regen and the gap gets even furthur. The drop would have to be significant for the regeneration to be irrelavent. Thats not including defense, toughness, dodge/counterattack abilities, foods, and especially intimidation. Dropping the % on armor too much and taking on high level content becomes impossible for even a decent sized group. Thats not an option. I never had a problem doing Janta missions wearing 52% chitin because the regen made sure I never dropped below 1/2. Try and take on a balance between PvP and PvE. The possibilities show that either armor wont be lowered that much, buffs will be completely redesigned, or overall damage will be alot less in either category. Then again its all just speculation until it hits TC. There is still very little reason for the substats to be as high as they are now. Heck take away the substats right now even with uber armor and healing requirements skyrocket.

Currently, the combat mechanism is HAM based...which is why substats are they way they are. Also, not everyone is the same combat profession or the same skills, so just because some professions dont fall below 50% hams does not mean that others won't. True, we wont know until the CU takes place and my worries stem from the worse case scenario as it seems changes are made without thinking of all the possible impacts before implementation.

I see your point on that high regen makes alot of things easier. How to balance this out to where we see the benefits where they should be andthat it does not unbalance things elsewhere is a concern. Lowering it helps balance the lower/middle content, but what about the high end content (or should there be a benefit to help with the high end content?) I dont have all the answers. Definitely if the combat system changes, then buffs should be tweaked (up, or down) to adjust for it.

It goes more to what the role of a medic/doc is and when are they needed. A Master level combat profession should not need a medic/doc following them around unless they are taking on high level content, especially if they have basic med skills as well. Higher level content would be things like NS, Krayts, Deathwatch, Black Suns, Force NPCs, Sith Thugs.....roughly things with 50k Hams or higher. Regeneration is useful only up to a point as well. If you're taking 200-500+ damage per second, regeneration will only provide a secondreprieve, maybe 2....which hopefully gives a medic/doc/cm enough time to get around to healing you. No a master level combat profession should not need a medic/doc following them around unless they are doing high level content. They should instead already have that in their template and with the removal of defense stacking (as posted by TH) they'll have many more points available to them. Master level profession or not, taking damage without having to worry about healing is anywhere not something that will help promote grouping or any of the medic profession in general. Huurton howlers still con red to a master TK/ master commando yet they are like mosquitos even in advanced marabi (what one of my toons wore through most of the profession).

The need for healing in relation to content difficulty is expoential. So obviously, for the curve to make sense, there will be points where a MCombat profession wont need to worry about healing. I think this is where people's thinking is flawed as it seemsmost people think that the relationfor combat difficulty is linear. It is not (in the degrees which is offered to us). Two rancors is not twice as hard as one, nor is 5 rancors 5 times as hard as one...in any combat sense.

The con system is faulty to begin with. If anything, it falls more in line with how mobs were at launch. And how mobs were then and how we are now would be balanced and the con system would be reliable. Hurrton howlers, as they are now, should not be red con to any master combat prof. Their creature level isnt all that high either.

I realize the intent is to make the high end content harder, but do we want to make all content harder? or just the high end content harder? Realize that some of the changes may impact the economy, like creature harvesting. With a high demand by docs for herb meat and avian meat..do we want to see furthur inflation because all of a sudden getting we can only now get half the quantity of creature resources that we once did? You're still thinking in a solo mindset. On TC they already nerfed solo groups and I see in the future other methods that will make people want to group. Does that mean people will charge more? Doubtful. The entire economy will be affected but it will balance out. I still blame some of the complete fools that actually have too much money to spend paying 500cpu for resources in public with flashing light making the public think that we are all willing to pay that much.

That also means you'll have to have more guild cooperation and build connections though. Interdepency in the game is only tough if you want it to be. Soloing your way through combat or non-combat professions is a sure way to make it tough.

While i agree the solo grouping for money grinding to an extent needed to stop, it's a little too late, and the measure too extreme. This isnt a 9-5 type of game where we operate only during peak hours. Each server has it's own 'off-peak' time that a few people play during. If the game becomes group only or predominantly group oriented, what's the point of these off-peak hour people to continue playing? For them, soloing is not an option, it almost becomes a necessity. Thats partly why i took up CH, so i dont have to rely on spending hours trying to find people to group and remain grouped with me. At most 10% should be completely group necessary (currently, i think it's like 1%....DWB, NS Elders,and to some extent the vette and Krayts). I do have a group of friends i occasionally group up with, but they have desires of their own as well. And it is difficult to find people of similar playstyle or mindset ingame. It took me months to get to knowmy current circle of friends ingame and for all of us to adjust to each other.

As mentioned, it's the bid wars that creates the 500cpu avain meat market. It doesnt start off like this right away. And not everyone hasa guild to help out or has the ability/funds to make the kind of connections needed. For the most part, avian wont be affected too much by the changes i think. Supply and demand will remain as it as getting avian is relatively easy.The cu mayhave impacts on the herb meat market, depending on if they become a lot more difficult to kill.

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