Doctor Archive

Thread: CU OPINION POLL POS 30 NEG 110. CU is LIVE so what's YOUR opinion?

vortexala
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm
#14






Darksfallen wrote:





vortexala wrote:

First, bumping actually is against the rules. Mods/Admins don't like it when you bump posts...



Oh, and here's my vote.


Negative:

It takes away the style of play I've loved and missed, in all it's differences and intricacies, and replacing it with an industry standard caster-healer.



So you are completely dismissing the specific mentions that the Doctor playing styles will be preserved... why?







CurrentSWG Healer playing styles aren't being preserved, they're being changed. The generalized MMO Fantasy healer casting playstyle is what we'll be getting instead.


How can I dismiss it? Because I've seen more specifics on what is to come. Granted it may change but considering the resistance of the devs to anything put forth by a lot of us in the CU forums, I don't see it happening. Andwhat is to come isn't the healer I want to play.


There were other ways of achieving a change of this magnitude that wouldn't have alienated players to one degree or another...and none of them were given the time of day by the devs.


So am I completely dismissing the new changes? Yep. Sure am.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Darksfallen
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:43 pm
#15






Marrow1 wrote:

Ummm, just where is this "specific" mentioning? Infact the devs have suggested just the opposit. They are revamping the doc prof because they do not like the play style it has created.


1. They do not like that docs spend time crafting.


2. They do not like thta docs spend time buffing


3. They do not like that docs have tons of things to carry and deal with.


4. They do not like that non-docs are so dependent on buffs.


I agree with much of the above. I just think that the goals could have been achieved in a much simpler and less impactive way.


1. Crafting would have gotten a ton simpler simply because the HAM system was getting simpler. There was no need to remove the requirement of meds and replace it with a majic like enhancer capability. Going from 6 buffs down to two would have been a huge improvement and would have sufficed.


2. Doc buffing time got cut in half by changing the buff timers. The new HAM system would have further cut down on buff times since there were fewer stats to buff.


3. The number of items to carry and deal with would have gone down simpley because of the new HAM system.


4. Currently you have base stats of 500ish + 2.5kish buff = 3k ham. Since the buff >> base stats buffs are a must have. In the new system base stats are 3kish + 500ish buff = 3.5k HAM. Since base >> buff the buff is not very much required. This was done on purpose. I would like to have seen a different split between buff and base. Something like 2.5k base and 1k buff. It would have still allowed for non-buff play but made buffs still hightly desireable.
The added change of making the base stats a function of lvl of fight class I am not so sure about either. It will clearly limit the dabblers which some may like. I however have always like the idea that you can mix and match skills from various fight classes to achieve a toon that meets your needs. It may turn out that the HAM bunus you get will limit this aspect of the skill point system. It will depend on how the scaleling goes. It may turn out to be a interesting twist that adds much to the game.


For example, in order to gain some KD def from Fencer, some med skill from TK, etc you would have to give up a second master. Giving up the second master to gain those skills may result in a lower HAM assuming they give much of the HAM bonus at the master box rather than then giving them out as even incramental bonus upon each skill box. A interesting trade off that is not seen today. On the other hand, if they doll out the HAM differently one could wind up with more HAM by dabbling instead of mastering. I hope they play with these numbers carefully and test them out. If they dump all the HAM bonus into the master box then that will for the most part kill dabling because no one could afford to be at 1/2 HAM.


sorry, did not realize I was off on a rant....




Specific mentioning below: (I will get a link.)


Yes!


When the team looked at the buff system and the wayit currently works, the upside is that many players enjoy the playstyleand the interaction while the downside is that the way buffs currently exist, it is unbalancing the overall game system. The goal was to retain the playstyle for players that enjoyed it because it is a great facet of the way the SWG world works, but we needed to both balance it and make it work so that buffs aren't a barrier to a casual game session.


Buffs will still be part of the game and so will the playstyle. Doctors will need to use the character respec to redefine their skill set, but that playstyle is preserved. Buffing won't be a requirement for casual play, but theywill be a good thing to have for long game sessions,PvP, PvE and all sorts of activities, but they wont be a barrier to just jumping in and having a fun game.





Miriam
Master Doctor
Master Shipwright (10/27, 10:54am)
134 Badges Hero Of Tatooine

Yasmin
Dark Jedi Knight
Reborn
Darksfallen
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:45 pm
#16

Here you are:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=64754#M64754






DeQuosaek wrote:

"Medical crafting will be handled by the crafting line in Medic as well as Bio-Engineers."


and Medic is a requirement of Doctor, I would say he will still be able ot craft.






Yes!


When the team looked at the buff system and the wayit currently works, the upside is that many players enjoy the playstyleand the interaction while the downside is that the way buffs currently exist, it is unbalancing the overall game system. The goal was to retain the playstyle for players that enjoyed it because it is a great facet of the way the SWG world works, but we needed to both balance it and make it work so that buffs aren't a barrier to a casual game session.


Buffs will still be part of the game and so will the playstyle. Doctors will need to use the character respec to redefine their skill set, but that playstyle is preserved. Buffing won't be a requirement for casual play, but theywill be a good thing to have for long game sessions,PvP, PvE and all sorts of activities, but they wont be a barrier to just jumping in and having a fun game.





Miriam
Master Doctor
Master Shipwright (10/27, 10:54am)
134 Badges Hero Of Tatooine

Yasmin
Dark Jedi Knight
Reborn
Darksfallen
Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:51 pm
#17






Darksfallen wrote:





Marrow1 wrote:

Ummm, just where is this "specific" mentioning? In fact the devs have suggested just the opposit. They are revamping the doc prof because they do not like the play style it has created.




I would say given the link and content above, what you have said here is completely false.

Message Edited by Darksfallen on 03-24-2005 05:57 PM



Miriam
Master Doctor
Master Shipwright (10/27, 10:54am)
134 Badges Hero Of Tatooine

Yasmin
Dark Jedi Knight
Reborn
Marrow1
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:23 pm
#18






Darksfallen wrote:






Darksfallen wrote:





Marrow1 wrote:

Ummm, just where is this "specific" mentioning? In fact the devs have suggested just the opposit. They are revamping the doc prof because they do not like the play style it has created.




I would say given the link and content above, what you have said here is completely false.


Message Edited by Darksfallen on 03-24-2005 05:57 PM





In what way is this false?


They say the play stlye will not change. If that were the case then they would not make a change. They want a play style to change, hence the reason for the skill set changes.






__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
Darksfallen
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:35 pm
#19






Marrow1 wrote:


In what way is this false?


They say the play stlye will not change. If that were the case then they would not make a change. They want a play style to change, hence the reason for the skill set changes.


You know as well as I do, there are more ways than one to do the same thing. I mean come on.




Miriam
Master Doctor
Master Shipwright (10/27, 10:54am)
134 Badges Hero Of Tatooine

Yasmin
Dark Jedi Knight
Reborn
Marrow1
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:35 pm
#20






Darksfallen wrote:

If this is true, and I have no reason to believe that what you have described is not I think it will be a nice change. Never running out of Stims on raids, calling off X because there aren't enough stims/rezzpacks/buffpacks. I'm kind of more excited to see more info now!






There are several issues with the loss of crafted items.


Part of the fun of getting ready for any trip is checking your stuff.

Part of the fun of setting your self appart from others is having the best stuff and having the right stuff at the right time.

Part of the fun of getting ready for a trip is crafting the right item for the trip.


Let me give you an example.

About 8months ago I was getting ready to go down the DWB for the first time. After a great deal of discussion I chose to craft some very long duration buffs thinking they would be better than crafting for power. I crafted the first 3:45 buffs on our server just for the trip. And it worked out great. It was a lot of fun bantering the choice around and then seeing that choice pay off. I took a great deal of pride in it. I also took along some of the highest stims I could bring and handed out some Janta Stim B's to the tanks just in case I could not get to them in time.


Yes, there was a lot of work timing the heal, balancing my mind pool, etc during the adventure. However, much of the fun was being able to craft the meds that went with the trip.


This is a play style that I enjoy and will loose. If all I have to do is point and heal there will be none of that.


Please dont tell me that I can be a BE and craft. It will not be the same in any way.

Message Edited by Marrow1 on 03-24-2005 06:37 PM




__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
Obata
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:38 pm
#21






Darksfallen wrote:





vortexala wrote:

CurrentSWG Healer playing styles aren't being preserved, they're being changed. The generalized MMO Fantasy healer casting playstyle is what we'll be getting instead.


Honestly there is no difference. Only that we will have futher restrictions to us using the action and/or mind bars to heal. Catalyst, mana, specials bar, artifacts, magical items, stims or whatever it's all the same. The same restrictions the same limitations, the same systems. What we don't have here is your ability to suspend disbelief in the situation. The changes are in word and names only and that is where the problem lies.


So you're saying that a componentless, casting system is the same as the current system in which we have to have crafted items with a limited number of uses?


How can I dismiss it? Because I've seen more specifics on what is to come. Granted it may change but considering the resistance of the devs to anything put forth by a lot of us in the CU forums, I don't see it happening. Andwhat is to come isn't the healer I want to play.


Fair enough. But you must also conceed that you are no longer in the know directly. (as of 3 days ago anyway.)


Not true. Texxie is still in the CU forum, as are all the glowies, corrs and testers. My interpretation (given the same information available to him) is the same as his.


There were other ways of achieving a change of this magnitude that wouldn't have alienated players to one degree or another...and none of them were given the time of day by the devs.


I have to dispute this, respectfully. There's never a change that has ever been made that has not alienated players to one degree or another(and there never will be, it's not possible). They can never win that way. You are guessing that other alternatives might berecieved betterbut there is no way to know that nor to prove your statement true, nor mine false.


In this case, there were much simpler alternatives that would have preserved what the current healers like and what makes healing in SWG unique, without creatingthe barrier for entry that the devs perceive crafting to be. The point is, the devs wouldn't even consider any of them.


So am I completely dismissing the new changes? Yep. Sure am.


I didn't ask if you were dismissing the changes as a whole, I gathered that from previous posts.





If this is true, and I have no reason to believe that what you have described is not I think it will be a nice change. Never running out of Stims on raids, calling off X because there aren't enough stims/rezzpacks/buffpacks. I'm kind of more excited to see more info now!






What you just described is the healing system in every single fantasy based MMORPG. I love that SWG makes it more complex than that, and makes it technology based instead of magic based.


My vote: a resounding NEGATIVE



Obata Lightingflier (Deceased): Master Doctor, Master Combat Medic - Wanderhome
Opos Odet (Deceased): Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Master Musician - Wanderhome
Darksfallen
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:51 pm
#22






Obata wrote:





Darksfallen wrote:





vortexala wrote:

CurrentSWG Healer playing styles aren't being preserved, they're being changed. The generalized MMO Fantasy healer casting playstyle is what we'll be getting instead.


Honestly there is no difference. Only that we will have futher restrictions to us using the action and/or mind bars to heal. Catalyst, mana, specials bar, artifacts, magical items, stims or whatever it's all the same. The same restrictions the same limitations, the same systems. What we don't have here is your ability to suspend disbelief in the situation. The changes are in word and names only and that is where the problem lies.


So you're saying that a componentless, casting system is the same as the current system in which we have to have crafted items with a limited number of uses?


We know that we will still be crafting so there will be a components and/or stims as we know there will be self stims. The fact that all existing meds will be changed into "something useful" elludes to that. Anything nonDoctor related would not be "useful" I would assume. But we will see.


How can I dismiss it? Because I've seen more specifics on what is to come. Granted it may change but considering the resistance of the devs to anything put forth by a lot of us in the CU forums, I don't see it happening. Andwhat is to come isn't the healer I want to play.


Fair enough. But you must also conceed that you are no longer in the know directly. (as of 3 days ago anyway.)


Not true. Texxie is still in the CU forum, as are all the glowies, corrs and testers. My interpretation (given the same information available to him) is the same as his.


This is common knowledge and I would have assumed that people knew that. I was refering directly to the correspondant forums.


There were other ways of achieving a change of this magnitude that wouldn't have alienated players to one degree or another...and none of them were given the time of day by the devs.


I have to dispute this, respectfully. There's never a change that has ever been made that has not alienated players to one degree or another(and there never will be, it's not possible). They can never win that way. You are guessing that other alternatives might berecieved betterbut there is no way to know that nor to prove your statement true, nor mine false.


In this case, there were much simpler alternatives that would have preserved what the current healers like and what makes healing in SWG unique, without creatingthe barrier for entry that the devs perceive crafting to be. The point is, the devs wouldn't even consider any of them.


Unlike many people it's in me to believe that the best possible solution was picked. Like it or not. They don't attempt to disrupt a multimillion $ online game for giggles.


So am I completely dismissing the new changes? Yep. Sure am.


I didn't ask if you were dismissing the changes as a whole, I gathered that from previous posts.





If this is true, and I have no reason to believe that what you have described is not I think it will be a nice change. Never running out of Stims on raids, calling off X because there aren't enough stims/rezzpacks/buffpacks. I'm kind of more excited to see more info now!






What you just described is the healing system in every single fantasy based MMORPG. I love that SWG makes it more complex than that, and makes it technology based instead of magic based.


I agree completely. But harness is no different from a special bar, a wand of healing with X charges is no different than stims. The suspention of disbelief is the issue here.


My vote: a resounding NEGATIVE




Message Edited by Darksfallen on 03-24-2005 06:52 PM



Miriam
Master Doctor
Master Shipwright (10/27, 10:54am)
134 Badges Hero Of Tatooine

Yasmin
Dark Jedi Knight
Reborn
Traigus
Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:30 pm
#23

You all are making me go blind with all the colors.

-T



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We've got a blind date with destiny -- and it looks like she ordered the lobster."

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taloncard
Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:00 pm
#24

personally I love the crafting side of being a doc. I worked long and hard to produce the best stuff, but with all the crafting being in medic now, what is the point?

Maybe rezzing will be needed again, maybe heal states will be more useful, but it looks like CM and Medic are going to be more needed than doc now.

So put me as a negative.




Severan T'iam (Valcyn) RIP 7/2/2003-5/8/2005.
Master Nerf herder (oops I mean CH oops CH is gone but never forgotten)
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...


Obata
Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:17 pm
#25






Darksfallen wrote:


I agree completely. But harness is no different from a special bar, a wand of healing with X charges is no different than stims. The suspention of disbelief is the issue here.







Suspension of disbelief would be much easier if healing still required consumable meds. In the new system, that's not the case.



Obata Lightingflier (Deceased): Master Doctor, Master Combat Medic - Wanderhome
Opos Odet (Deceased): Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Master Musician - Wanderhome
Cafa
Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:19 pm
#26






Obata wrote:


[snip]


What you just described is the healing system in every single fantasy based MMORPG. I love that SWG makes it more complex than that, and makes it technology based instead of magic based.


My vote: a resounding NEGATIVE





Ultimately, I don't want a cleric. If they can keep the context in a sci-fantasy Star Wars universe I'll be happy, but the days of spells are behind me, and I want to play within the genre that is Star Wars.


My vote: I'll wait and see as we still have no information on what is really going to be a Doc's mechanics.


Cafa Asia





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