Doctor Archive
Thread: Doctor Buffs are responsible for the lack of things to do
KnightHawk420
Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:26 pm
#14
Deady wrote:
People complain about a lack of challenge, or tough mobs with good loot in SWG.
But, actually its not surprising that this is the case, when people are heading out to battle with HAM stats that can be 3 times what they should be.
If you think about it, SWG was designed before doctor buffs were ever invented. The various creatures, NPCs, missions and dungeonswere all designed and tested with HAMs of between ~600-1200 in mind.
If you suddenly allow people to head out with stats of 3000+, you completely throw combat balance out of the window, which is what we see now.
I guess my point is, the game wasnt ready for Doctor Buffs, and still isnt. I think buffs were added without proper consideration of their effects on game, and that the game still hasnt been able to catch up with the changes they have brought.
I regret to inform you your english sux. I don't mean spelling though, just the part where you talk about lack of content and relate that to buffs. But more specifically you dont' relate the two, they just happen to be two trains of thought stuck into the same post.....
Without doctor buffs it would just take people longer to realize there was no content or good loot to be had to begin with........
Kassuff
Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:19 pm
#15
Deady wrote:
People complain about a lack of challenge, or tough mobs with good loot in SWG.
But, actually its not surprising that this is the case, when people are heading out to battle with HAM stats that can be 3 times what they should be.
If you think about it, SWG was designed before doctor buffs were ever invented. The various creatures, NPCs, missions and dungeonswere all designed and tested with HAMs of between ~600-1200 in mind.
If you suddenly allow people to head out with stats of 3000+, you completely throw combat balance out of the window, which is what we see now.
I guess my point is, the game wasnt ready for Doctor Buffs, and still isnt. I think buffs were added without proper consideration of their effects on game, and that the game still hasnt been able to catch up with the changes they have brought.
No one is holding a gun to players heads...forcing them to buff or wear high resist armor. It's a choice, and if you're getting bored because mobs are too "easy", make some novice armorsmiths day by buying somebone armor and CDEF weapons.
Better still...go find a low population server somewhere, and roll a new charachter. No lot trades, no credit swaps. Start fresh with no assistance from you current server.
I've always wondered what it would be like for an entire guild to relocate to another server. Start from scratch running missions, surveying, hunting etc....build a town literally from nothing. Might sound like work to most of you, sounds like a challenge to me
moonraker66
Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:21 pm
#16
The buffs and the armor are nice for those people who like to hunt solo.
The newer dungeons are still insane if you dont have a BIG group so I say leave the buffs and armor alone.
Only my 2 cents but what the heck do I know.
Songe
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:15 pm
#17
It's more armor than buffs for one. You can kill much more things with armor and without buffs than with buffs without armor, and you only need buffs once to be able to wear your armor. So the argument that buffs are responsible because they let you wear armorisn't totally valid. What about the no buff armor suits with 80% kinetic then?
Also, to come back to the original idea of the threads... It's not true. Even when everything is rebalanced, it will be the same content, just you will need more peopleto do it. Which involves spending time gathering a group, getting to the place etc. Do you call that 'waste of time' more things to do? I certainly don't.
Darkblade101
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:39 pm
#18
I really dont see what buffs or armor has to do with "lack of things to do"
I mean i would love to see a very large group try and do the corvette, without buffs , without armor.
They would be wiped out in a matter of seconds.
The reason IMO that there is lack of things to do is,the content is dead,loot sucks.
Why would i want to group to do missions or quests, i am maxed on exp on all my professions,i dont need themeasly credits.
They need to make content ,that we can actually do without buffs and armor that will be worth it.
I mean the loot in this game is the worst in any game i have ever played,and say you group up and kill some big bad mob or npc and you loot nothing or200 credits and you have to split loot rights with 20 other people,long boring night to me.
One of the biggest thrills for me in any game i have ever played is great loot and in this game it is very,very rare.
Tigra
Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:37 pm
#19
I just find it weird though that npc's can have HAM's in excess of 10k but players can't come close even with buffs... it's impossible to take on certain npc's 1v1 despite a "master's" skills... So is that really out of whack? I'm all for group outings, but it shouldn't take 5 master combat prof's to take out a battle droid...
Scoooter
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:15 am
#20
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Roustabout wrote:
The DEVS never pictured people getting to near maximum efficiency so quickly. What they should have done was give people in beta (for a week maybe) 90% of maximum buffs (so 900 base packs) 70% composite, good weapons, and let them run around. Surely they must have thought at some point that the crafters would get together and be able to make the best stuff...but I guess they didn't and they greatly underestimated the power of characters. The problem isn't with doctor buffs, it's with the difficulty of the mobs. IMO make mobs deal 2x to 3x as much damage (except in DWB b/c it's ridiculous already) and leave buffs how they are. Try running Kunga missions or Geo Cave with that going on and there's no way you won't need a group.
Edit: Damn I've been here forever....Kunga=easy now... but you get the point
Message Edited by Roustabout on 06-24-2004 08:26 AM
People seem to forget that the entire creature database was revamped in December with the Combat Balance in mind. It's just taking them 10 months longer to implement the rest of the CBthan they wanted it to.
A point many forget about.
The combat/ham rebalance was supposed to be in a long time ago and they nerfed the creatures already
I too blame the armor as well and not the buffs.
I usually play unarmored and I take large amounts of damage and I am far from unstoppable woth 2600 buffs.
But when you have those kinds of buffs and 70-80% composite..forget about it.
raz1337
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:37 am
#21
making 250k ham NPC's, and 450k ham krayts was balancing?
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Roustabout wrote:
The DEVS never pictured people getting to near maximum efficiency so quickly. What they should have done was give people in beta (for a week maybe) 90% of maximum buffs (so 900 base packs) 70% composite, good weapons, and let them run around. Surely they must have thought at some point that the crafters would get together and be able to make the best stuff...but I guess they didn't and they greatly underestimated the power of characters. The problem isn't with doctor buffs, it's with the difficulty of the mobs. IMO make mobs deal 2x to 3x as much damage (except in DWB b/c it's ridiculous already) and leave buffs how they are. Try running Kunga missions or Geo Cave with that going on and there's no way you won't need a group.
Edit: Damn I've been here forever....Kunga=easy now... but you get the point
Message Edited by Roustabout on 06-24-2004 08:26 AM
People seem to forget that the entire creature database was revamped in December with the Combat Balance in mind. It's just taking them 10 months longer to implement the rest of the CBthan they wanted it to.
Radar-X
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:29 am
#22
ShakariPsy wrote:
Radar-X wrote:
Deady wrote:
People complain about a lack of challenge, or tough mobs with good loot in SWG.
But, actually its not surprising that this is the case, when people are heading out to battle with HAM stats that can be 3 times what they should be.
If you think about it, SWG was designed before doctor buffs were ever invented. The various creatures, NPCs, missions and dungeonswere all designed and tested with HAMs of between ~600-1200 in mind.
If you suddenly allow people to head out with stats of 3000+, you completely throw combat balance out of the window, which is what we see now.
I guess my point is, the game wasnt ready for Doctor Buffs, and still isnt. I think buffs were added without proper consideration of their effects on game, and that the game still hasnt been able to catch up with the changes they have brought.
Not trying to be mean but ummmm yeah they've been saying this for a pretty long time now. Thats why they are reexamining the HAM mechanics for the combat revamp. There are less than4 places (3 of them are dungeons) that I can think off that someone can't solo with some novice elite profession.
hmm where is the 4 th non dungeon place your thinking of???
Now keep in mind I'm talking about being partly through elite combat profession and completely solo. A lot of stuff on Dathomir can give you trouble if you aren't careful. Some of the Nightsisters with 30k HAM bars aren't a joke and a pair of Rancors can give the wrong class a run for their money i.e: Rifleman without a DXR6B or a Commando with pretty much any weapon.I know you can solo something if your "smart" enough about it but you'll waste 20 mins doing it.
WillowDarkmoon
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:44 am
#23
Okay, so I have read a lot about these buff rebalances and I just want to make a couple comments.
The first comment is, I don't want to be forced to group. I like to group with my husband's character. We do solo group sometimes, but it's more so we can get five quenkers instead of two. I don't like going out and fighting with a bunch of people that I don't know, and won't be any type of combat profession if that is my only choice. Also, forcing people to group if they don't want to kinda takes the fun out of the game, and that's the point of games is to have fun.
My second comment is, you want to talk about a lack of something to do, imagine if you can only hunt one type of low level creature over and over because that is all you can kill now. Imagine only being able to hunt gnorts if you are alone. That would be tedious and would possibly make me stop playing entirely.
One more thing before I go...Not everyone in this game enjoys PvP. Using that as an excuse to balance the buffs isn't going to convince everyone. When I read someone saying that the PvP with buffs is worthless, my brain says "So we should all be punished for this?". I have nothing against anyone who wants to PvP, but can't those that do want to PvP put off their buffs until they decide to go PvE?
I like this game. I like it the way it is, really, and I am sure that I will adjust if things are changed, but don't say that buffs make the game less fun or take away things that we can do. Since the buffs started, I have found more things to do than I ever did before the buffs. And I don't want to be stuck on the beginning planets just because I don't like to group.
Oh, and I agree with someone (I hope it's in this thread) that says we shouldn't even be forced to solo group. We should be able to pick the level of our missions instead of the terminals picking it for us.
Willow Darkmoon ~ Flurry ~ Master Scout, Working on Creature Handler (Holo 3) & Ranger
Retired Master Entertainer (Holo 1), Carbineer (Holo 2), Tailor, Artisan, Brawler, Fencer, Merchant
Erithil
Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:52 am
#24
Tigra wrote:
I just find it weird though that npc's can have HAM's in excess of 10k but players can't come close even with buffs... it's impossible to take on certain npc's 1v1 despite a "master's" skills... So is that really out of whack? I'm all for group outings, but it shouldn't take 5 master combat prof's to take out a battle droid...
It's the very basic concept of balance at work here. If there was no such thing as groups and every combat was instanced (meaning only you could fight the creature) then you definately would see HAMs of the mobs being much closer to what a normal character can have.
But that is not how SWG works. A group of up to 20 people can participate in a combat, each in armor, being buffed, and having access to food.Unless you want to obliterate every creature without any challenge, then their HAMs have got to be raised to make them a challenge.
I find it silly to see a Stormtrooper with 10k HAM. Or some other mob with even higher HAM. But without that, the challenge of PvE combats would diminish to nothing. Even as it is, when a group of people go fighting mobs, it seems that the TKM's and the Master Swordsmen roll over the creatures, and by the time some non-master profession or non-PvE template class gets to get into the combat, they don't get to contribute.
The only way that the game environment can be made to remain challenging is for rediculously powerful HAM mobs to be out there that provides a challenge to not just the solo PvE player but also the PvE group.
Lexy
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:46 am
#25
Songe wrote:It's more armor than buffs for one. You can kill much more things with armor and without buffs than with buffs without armor, and you only need buffs once to be able to wear your armor. So the argument that buffs are responsible because they let you wear armorisn't totally valid. What about the no buff armor suits with 80% kinetic then?
One point: Buffs aren't even needed to get great composite on for the first time. Just drink an Accarragm, Garrmorl, and pop a Muon Gold and you can wear your armor.
But what you say is so true, I will many times cut back on what I use in PVE, either wearing good composite with no buffs (just food/drink etc), or with buffs and no armor. Certainly it's much harder to survive with just buffs and no armor.
Redrumm
Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:27 am
#26
Totally agree buffs and high resist armor help ruin this game.