Doctor Archive

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue because honestly, I have not done enough testing one way or the other to really even have an opinion. But I can submit the pvp battle I was in last night in theed as an anecdote, anyway...

We (imps) had roughly 8 players, 2 of which were master doctors, using C cure packs (forgot the stats in the mayhem). They had 7 players, 2 of which were CMs.

Largely because of their aoe poisons, they managed to keep poison on at least 4 of our members at all times (now, they were also using the corpse/poison exploit so that wasn't helping). I seemed to require 2-3 applications of my C pack to cure anything.

So, if you consider one volley/exchange got 4 of us poisoned, that meant that I needed to apply poison 4-6 times to cure 'my half' of the victims. Naturally, those 4-6 cures took me much longer to apply than it took the CM to poison, and before I could finish, 4 more were poisoned. Groupchat was chirping 'poisoned' nonstop all nite and there was no chance i could keep up with it. My mind was constantly low (even with the paltry mind buffs I managed to get from a dancer friend in between) and I was put down numerous times by their obligatory BH because of it. 4 doctors probably could have kept up with their 2 CMs if everyone was on the ball. 2 to 2? no way.

I offer this story as an example of how the game is being played (not how it was designed to be played, aka: holo). I will say that it sucked.

Emmy

Mraughh,

I also agree wtih this conern (will be MD tonight so not quite to your credentials yet...)

B-cures should generally not be able to cure C-poisons. I say generally because a discriminating doc wth advanced subs I think should be able to cure a C-poison with mediocre resources and non-adv subs. But the devil is all in the details of this gray area.

I guess I'm advocating soem sort of a cap on how high advanced subs can push A and B packs for both poisons and cures. There should be a bit of an overlap, but not much. While I suspected from Stim work that such caps didn't exist, I'm sure I encountered one on Dispersal Mechanisms 2 nights ago while i was trying to make a long-range poison.

Maybe we can get some insight into this...

Jacore, MCM, Tempest

Several of us asked about TC resources, but we were told it can't be done that way. So we just have to find what we can and work from there.

I will say that I have passed this buy Ben Hanson (a couple of times, in fact) but haven't gotten a response yet.

Snip-

The doctors should have to craft an equally good or better pack to do so. If any ol cure pack C could cure poison in 1 shot, then you could use the cheapest components, not experiement it out and cure all day long, whereas the CM doesnt have this option.

Snip-

You keep forgeting one VERY important fact. CM's have RANGE AND AOE silly. Don't think dual think real chaos combat. Give me range and give me AOE and I'll start a resource/experiementationarms war with you but as it stands Cure Posion C's taking3 attempts is bad and wrong.

One option: ALL cures C's are equil and modified by Doc Med knowledge. So a master doc using a cure C always wins vs a poison yet those with lower abilities have a test.

Macro,

You've got one reasonably valid point (AOE), but I don't buy the rest of it.

You don't have to start a resuorce war...one's already on. But, leave that aside. AOE is an issue, and 1 on 1 with equal resources or even marginally less your cures can 1 shot cure each individual hit with an AOE poison, because AOE poisons are considerably weaker than singles. If you can't your resources, exp points, or something else is substantially inferior.

Docs have a legitimate beef IMO with singles vs AOE. You need soemthing to counter that in large group on large group battles, be it a point blank 6m max AOE (multi-cure within your current range)or something like a D&D cleave skill that provides a chance to heal multiples in a round. I'm all for that though I know some CMs who think I'm nuts for siding with you...

But range? Forget it. That is the defining difference of a CM. Just as yours is the ability to cure states, including poison/disease and even death (rez).

Docs don't need range to compete with CMs. You need range and AOE to dominate CMs, and I wont' agree wtih that for the same reasons that champion some doc ability to counter CM AOEs on the CM board.

Jacore

I dont understand why this is even debatable. ACM delivers poison from range and gets AOE for splash effects to hit multiple targets. Its a losing battle to have to make multiple cure tries on 1 target when the opposing CM can reapply the poison to multiple targets on his first try. The efficancies are just too skewed towards CM's.

Docs shouldnt get any kind of ae or ranged cure, thats CM turf. I would like to see an immunity timer or resistance timer. I.E. if you just had a poison or disease cured you should be immune to a reapplication of that particular poison/disease for 1 min while the "cure" is still active in your system.

AOEs are always weaker than a single use, hence you should not be having a problem in curing them.

reason - if you dump all the points into effectiveness this is really jacking up the ability to knock numbers off those poisons. even at only 39% effectiveness you'll be able to 1 shot cure an AOE poison. Build the best products you can and dont worry about charges.

I am really really leaning more and more to my theory of poison dmg vs experimental effectiveness in determining how many applications it take to remove a poison

If you havent seen it, here it is:

each 10% of experimented effectiveness on a cure - c reduces a poison - cby 100 points.

If an AOE hits for 300, then a 31% effective cure poison will clear it in one shot. If you use that on a 400 point poison it will reduce it to a 91 point tick requiring a second application.

I dont have any hard data to show you other than my personal experience fighting other CMs and doctors. I have fought 2 CMs at once and could hold my own against them both, I have had bad kits that would take 2 applications and good kits that would clear anything depending on how the resources were that i built them with. There is an inherent edge for docs right now using cures simply for the fact that only 2 of the 3 advanced subs for CMs are working. When they finally fix the 3rd one, then would be the time to figure out whether we need to adjust the strength of cures, but not right now. We are going to be right back in square one when that sub is usable.

I think a big point being missed here is the prliferation of CMs and their wide range on AE poison attacks compared to the ability of a doctor to cure the masses here.

A group of 4 might survive the first AE poison if one is a master doc with an Awesome cure C (ie one dose per person). But afavorite tactic of many combat medics is to clone iin a none high enemy population area, launch an AE poison in the crowd, get dropped and see who falls over after they clone so they can DB them. Hopefully the revenge TEF change will eliminate this and those of you who have enjoy the cloning cneter TEF wars, well I'm sure ya know who to blame now that they're going away. But I digress ...

I don't think that a well place AE poison shouldn't drop some people, but the massive amounts that drop because you can only cure yourself and maybe 1 or 2 others if lucky on a good poison is pretty darn ridiculous. Especially if you see how the CM can just keep spamming his Mind poison over and over till the HAM runs low (Muon Gold keeps that from happening for a while too) running in around breaking targets in buildings. Now maybe a balanced image is being sought, but it's getting to the point that all you see are Combat Medics, Commandosor hybrids of these. And you though the Pistoleer explosion was bad <sigh>

- Risse Em'D

<sigh> An edit button would be SOOO nice here *sigh*

should be "known high population areas"

"... not seeking game 'balance' so to speak."

By the way ... notice I can't type worth a darn?

- Risse Em'D

I wonder how detailed information SOE has on the kits we use.

My thoughts are :

1) that Poison level X requires Cure level X or higher

2) Quality of Poison X must be equalled or exceeded by quality of Cure X, with Cure Y gaining a bonus multiplier (i.e. I've been poisoned by a CM with a quality 750 C mind poison, I could heal myself only with C or D cures, And if my C cure has a quality of 350 I would need 3 shots of it....)

What bonus a D pack should have... I'm thinking of a 20 to 50% bonus range but thats for others to hash out.

Staiglier

Mos Espa, Tat.

Corbantis