Doctor Archive

Thread: Nothing matters but a buff, doctors screw the game

JemyM
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:13 am
#1

Ithought I could write my opinions here and see if there are doctors that agree on my thoughts.


I heard about it when I first started to play, and did not wanted to believe it. But now I know that doctors are the essence of Starwars Galaxies. No profession are equally important, and that profession alone change how the entire game works.


Commando, Bounty Hunter, Teras Kasi Artist... Chef... it makes no difference. Its all about *ARE YOU BUFFED OR NOT*


Being a good bounty hunter is not about tracking down a target, using tactics, knowledge and skill to take them out. Its about knowing when his/her doctorbuff runs out.


Being a daring hero, running deep into a cave where no normal people wishes to go, is not about heroism and challenge. Its about using up the well spent 12k on your latest doctors buff.


Whats the use of bothering with blood, sweat and tears while doing 5k missions when you can do 30k missions without getting harmed after a buff? You can finish six-ten missions during that time, earning more than anything else would give you, and you would probably not even being harmed by it.


When one mechanic in a game, replaces all others, its too good. Thereby, doctors are too good for this game...


Best Regards
JemyM





Besides that, I also have an annoying sig that looks like part of the post.
Li3n0
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:25 am
#2

Well Doctors may seem the symbol of the whole Combat Imbalance - particularly having turned a group game into a solo-fest, but we are not as bad as people make out. Just spend 5 mins in here reading some of the threads and you'll learn we are not making 10K profit per 12K buff as people think - combat types are charging us 50CPU+ for resources, chefs are charging 150K+ for a small crate of bivoli which we need for good buffing, tailors and droid engineers are making similar profits on things we need (droid batteries seem to be getting more and more expensive everytime I check, for example, and I go through 3 or 4 every hour while buffing). Its not the doctors who implemented the buffing system, we are just taking advantage of it. I hope you are making similar complaints to the armoursmith community for 80%+ composite, chefs for producing brandy and canape, entertainers for mind buffs, image designers for stat migration for pvp-ers, smuggler and weaponsmith for super sliced weapons and the combat medic for insane mind fire dots... What do you mean you're not? Have you really thought through everything thats wrong with the game and decided its all because of buffing? Buffing wouldn't make a damn without mind enhancers like brandy or without a nice set of armour...So why, pray tell, is it all our fault?

Farstar: Halis Korban (M.D.)



HAMNA Onoxa [HK-619]
Squad Leader, Pistoleer and Sentinel Company CO

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Pootle
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:26 am
#3


I would agree and disagree with this.


Agree:

Doctor buff how they stand are way overpowered, as JemyM said with an average set of buffs (anywhere from 1800 and up) you really do not need to worry about much atm. This is both PVE and PVP (yes I know it may make PVP over a fair bit quicker than it is now). High end content should encourage players to party up to kill but as it is too many people solo stuff way way way above what they should be able to.


Disagree:

Without any sort of Doc Buffs a lot of the content would be unavailable to the casual gamer as there is a fair amount of stuff that could one hit kill you if you are just out on your own for a stress reliving hunt session. Also I would say Chef is also an essential proffesion now too with all the nice food we got,I knowI would be lost without Brandy and Ahrisa and these can take your mind stats close to the levels of a normal doc buff(do not take this in anyway to be a "NERF CHEF" point, my alt is a chef and i am loving the prof how it is).


Doctor buffs definately need to be toned down with the current combat system, BUT, and this is a big BUT, we do not really have a clue how the combat revamp is gonna affect this situation, so if players call too much for a buff nerf we could end up shooting ourselves in the foot when (.....IF.......) the combat revamp comes through.


Wotee





Wotee - Jedi Padawan
I just need someone to make me feel special ^__^

_KernMist
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:52 am
#4

droid engineers are making similar profits on things we need (droid batteries seem to be getting more and more expensive everytime I check





The grass is always greener...


Like any profession, you'd be amazed at how difficult it is to turn a profit in Droid Engineering. It takes months and months of setup and factories. All of which has to be financed. Along with Architects we have some of the biggest and hardest resource requirements. Quality of resource is everything and CPUs can be pretty expensive.


I myself have to *have* to have 5 factories and 3 shops in order to sell droids at a reasonable level not to mention our professions almost necessary requirement for Master Artisan too.Although I can't speak for all other DEs, my droids and consumables are always priced to sell reasonably, but I know from experience that others see droids as a one-time-sell, and so feel the need to recoup their costs on the expendables... like batteries.




Wracca
Master Droid Engineer
Wracca's Palace of Droid Love, Mos Espa, Tatooine, Chimaera

Vendor: Maraac - Complete Droids, Mos Espa (-2395, 1403).
Vendor: Graak - Complete Droids, Mos Eisley (2468, -4652).
ltgrifter
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:57 am
#5

Yes I agree, But with the upcomming HAM revamp/changes, hopefully they will make it so buffs help, but arnt ESSENTIAL and REQUIRED to play the game at all. IMHO, when they put the new HAM revamp in, if they made it so buffs D packs range from 600-900, that would go a long ways towards the right direction. Who knows, maybe we'll all be suprised.
Eraint
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:02 am
#6

A lot of people will scream and cry if nerfs get buffed. A lot of people(myself included) may not necessarily like them, but don't have the time to wait for a group to form, with the right balance, to go spend 4 hours and make maybe 100k.

Its bad enough in solo groups having to listen to the whining, foul language, and general cry-baby-ness of some of the players. If they reduce overall buffs back to the size of mind buffs, you will have to choose your food wisely, and spend a lot more time thinking about what you are doing.

Until the rest of combat is balanced, buffs should not be touched. For PVP, a quick and easy solution would be initial rules are no buffs except food buffs, and no armor. I think a lot more people would do it then, and doctors/medics would be in high demand. I was wearing no armor the other night and was jumped by somebody in full composite. I knocked them down and went through 3 unarmed hit 3's on them and did little or no damage. It really stinks that the only way to beat somebody in PVP is to knock them down and mind hit them.

Oh well, my opinion is only that, my opinion.



Llew Eraint-Corbantis:Master Rifleman/Master Swordsman:
Ohock Backnaru-Corbantis: 10 pt Master WS/Merchant: Loot Vendor, Melee Sliced and unsliced Weapons -171, -5796 Corellia, South of Coronet
JemyM
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:06 am
#7

I am not saying that Doctors earn much. I do not consider it unfair that even players that plays Doctors should be able to earn their living and pay for the resources.


Armorsmiths that produces special built armors, smugglers that slices weapons, chefs that produces high quality food, doctors that produces stimpacks and heal people, dancers that offers cure of bf in the cantina... all of this are game mechanics, that together work very well. Instead of slicing your weapon, you can try to find a better weaponsmith, and slicing is disliked by the empire. Running back to the cantina after a fight dont change the game. Having good stimpacks dont change the game either.
The food that is available is strong, but its still never more than a max 30% bonus for 45 minutes, and you cannot have more than a quota inside you, after that you are full. Its up to you what food you digest, as you will never be able to digest all types at once.
And spices are held back by the bad stuff that happens once your 'ride' is over...


All theese are mechanics, that together works well. Throughout experimentation you can improve your player, often improving one bit of you at the cost of another...


But in the end, it all comes down to "are you buffed, or are you not". I am not angry at the doctors for doing it, the doctor players do nothing wrong. I am annoyed with how the developers made the game mechanics into a place where just about everything else are meaningless as long as you have a 3h 2.5k buff.


There are other issues... I know this. But right now, nothing else matters before I got a doctor to buff me. Once buffed, I can sit back, thinking about details while I stand nude in the desert, attacking ronto's with a blunt knife.



Yes, the combat revamp might change all this... and I am really looking forward to it. Starwars Galaxies is a good game, more balanced than everything ive seen, where all professions have their uses in game. Its just sad that one mechanic as it is, outshines all others.



Now I will get back to the game, and once I found a doctor who can buff me, I will return to fight creatures on Dantoine for weapon xp.




Besides that, I also have an annoying sig that looks like part of the post.
Giftmacher
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:23 am
#8

I think you're only looking at half the problem here, yes buffs are powerful however they are not all powerful.


The main problem I can see is this unbalanced combination of armour and buffs, something needs to be done about combining the two. Buffs and composite should not= all out solo machine. They should however stillconfer an advantage, afterall part of a BH's preparation for taking down a mark would involve armour and ensuring general fitness, they just shouldn't confer near invunerability. I personally would like to see rules regulating the stacking of armour on top of buffs (of any kind). Perhaps making encumberance a percentage of HAM pool so larger pools are more heavily penalised for example, or graded encumberance penalties (like the way income tax is graduated), giving diminishing returns for huge buff/armour combinations. Personally I don't mind what the method is as long as it limits invenerabiltiy with out making either armour or buffs pointless.


Either way you look at it though, a player unwilling to pay out for decent kit or healthcare should never be a match for one who is, in serious combat, buffs and armour will always be needed and so in my view they should be.


Gift.
Giftmacher
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:26 am
#9






JemyM wrote:

There are other issues... I know this. But right now, nothing else matters before I got a doctor to buff me. Once buffed, I can sit back, thinking about details while I stand nude in the desert, attacking ronto's with a blunt knife.




Buffs are good, but they're not that good.

Roustabout
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:29 am
#10

Hmm, let me guess. You came into the game and immediately started hording the top level stuff. Now you have 70% base composite, chef foods, best crafted weapons, and get buffed and there really isn't any excitement anymore. Honestly what did you expect? Players like me have been here for over a year and have put up with the broken professions, magical disappearing lairs, warping, etc... and this is basically the endgame payout. Everything your experiencing is because dedicated crafters have put in literally months to a year of time collecting resources and honing their craft.


It's laughable that you think buffs are the end all be all. You've obviously never tried on some 80% kinetic and learned that you can take on pretty much everything with that as well.


Everything you have combined together is what makes it very powerful. Of course if you have a 400+ stim b, 2.5k enhancements, armor, best weapons, and an elite profession you're going to be able to solo pretty much everything. That is the endgame. Once again, endgame. One more time, endgame. See you put that stuff on to go take out DWB, Geo Caves, Corvette, Krayts, Giant Dune Kimos, Peko Peko Albatross', Gorax, etc... If you're using it to take on those quenkers then no wonder it's overkill. A quenker 'cons white (or dark blue can't remember) to an elite combat because it's about an even match for a regular elite combat profession. Once you factor in elite enhancements, elite stims, elite armor, elite weapons, then of course you're overpowering in regular combat.


Coming and bitching on here also is not really the best venue, in fact it's bull**edit**...get the **edit** out. Go to the core systems board or post on the combat revamp threadin the dev forum but don't come here and tell us how we break the game. Right now we're enjoying it b/4 who knows what nerf we get.


And of course now you've done everything after having the game a month. That's your problem. I didn't even venture to an adventure planet for a month or two after buying the game. I still haven't seen most of the POI's or been to all the cities. But please though, feel free to continue bitching and moaning on our board because we really do enjoy things that complain, and offer no rhyme or reason 1. why we should care or 2. remedy for the situation you perceive is hurting you.


In conclusion thanks for nothing
JemyM
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:34 am
#11

Yes... Unfortunally they are "that" good.


There is a great difference between 1000 health with barely no regeneration and250% health with a massive regeneration for two-three hours...


There should have been something that gave a penalty, such as a massive hangover, like 90% wounds in all attributes, or instant decapitation after the buff, or not being able to buff all six stars, or reducing the buffs strength down to max +500 or something.


There is simply no drawback with taking MASSIVE STERORIODS...






Besides that, I also have an annoying sig that looks like part of the post.
vortexala
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:41 am
#12

Buffs aren't mandatory for anything aside from the high-end content. No one is forcing the buffs onto the playerbase, they're taking it themselves.

I did Bounty Hunter. I ran the missions. I mastered the profession. I was never buffed by a doc and I had NO trouble whatsoever. Pop a muon and fire away. Would it have been faster had I been buffed? Probably, but that's the easy way out.

Which is, actually, the real issue here. Folks want the easy way out. So they go get the high powered doc buffs so they can wear the high resist armour and spam specials using their high-speed, high damage weapons at 1 second intervals(generalization).

This has led to this game being insanely easy to solo.

But Doc Buffs are NOT the sole reason for this, you have to take into account ALL the factors. Focusing in on simply Doc Buffs while excluding high resist armour, speed equations and high damage weapons will STILL leave an imbalance that needs to be corrected.

Yes, Doc Buffs are part of the problem. But they aren't the only issue at play here...



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Kingporteus
Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:41 am
#13

Interesting topic. Doctors screw the game. Hmm.... have to disagree on that one. What would the game be like without buffs or reduced buffs? It would be rather unpleasant to say the least.


Okay so the buffs we give allow us to turn a 500 HA(example is my char)into 3000. Close combat fighters like myselfdon't have the luxury of being right at the back with a big gunso need the buffs to fight the big creatures even with good armour on. Even then a mind buff is preferable, as well as bottle and snacks on standby due to the levels of mind attacks I keep running into. Such is life. I would like to say that I could go out hunting with only a mind buff and armour, but that's just laughable.


Long range fighters, ie anything which isn't a sword, polearm, fist, rubber chicken can stand way back and shoot the nasty creatures safe in the knowledge they can burst run away then turn and fire blah blah. For them I'd say it's more likely they could go out hunting without buffs, and just use armour and brandy and nibbles.


Naturally this is all PVE.


PVP..... well on all occasions i've seen and taken part inPVP I've never once seen one who hasnt' been buffed, Jedi included. I don't like PVP so I can't really comment on it, other than without buffs there would be a lot of one shot kills.


Doctoring is a major part of my gaming experience as is Swordswoman and I enjoy being able to solo Rancors and going 9 on 1 in the squill caves and surviving... just. I still get killed when going solo, I still get killed in a group. I like buffing people, I like healing people, curing disease and poison as well as bashing things with my sword. And I also like roleplaying IT's great being able to mix them all together, gives me a good gaming experience.


So from what I have personally seen the combat balance problems that are talked about which stem from buffing don't really effect me. If I went day after day without dying due to my buffs and equipment etc yeah I'd say hmm... perhaps I am uber and there is a balance problem. But I'm not a pure combat character, I'm not a PVPer... and personally that is where the problem lies.






Carmilla D'Morenta MD
Master Doctor/Novice Swordswoman
Warrent Officer II Bestine Garrison
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