Doctor Archive

18. Pet Stimpacks

Some Docs are incensed about the idea of giving BE’s stimpacks for healing Pets. (Not at the BE’s for making these packs, but that anyone, primarily CH’s presumably, can use them.) Something that was previously the purview of the medic classes. Letting some other class utilize stimpacks, even if it’s just for pets, seems like a slap in the face by giving CHs the ability to use an item that is otherwise exclusive to Novice Medic, when an integral skill required for Medics, Surveying, won’t even be considered for Medics because it would somehow interfere with Artisans. Not to mention the ability of these new stims to heal mind damage on the fly when no other class in the game has this ability for use on player characters. Some clarification on the reasoning for this issue or some other form of compensation, such as reducing med use requirements on A packs, mind healing or the removal of pet stimpacks has been suggested.

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I would like to point out a few things about CHs and BEs that those that voted for this may not have thought about. Please reply with any comments about my points. Flames will be ignored by me.

It is stated in this complaint that allowing CHs to use these stimpacks was a SLAP IN THE FACE to the medic profession. Now, we need to look outside of our profession to try get a better view of the situation and then maybe we will be able to see the issue a little more clearly.

First we need to look at CHs, then BEs.

Before the last big patch, the only people that could use a pet were Creature Handlers. Now, anyone can use a low level pet. Is that a slap in the face or what? And do try to remember that it isnot ONLY aTANK that people get for free not just a healing item that costs far more than it is worth…not to mention that FEW BE’s are making them at all.

Then what happens? They make it so a medic will NOT gain xp from healing a pet! Another slap? More like a punch!

Now CHs are faced with everyone using pets and seeing a great many medics not wanting to heal their pets because they are not getting any xp for it. The only recourse a CH has is to find a BE that is actually willing to make the stims for less than an arm and a leg or train in medic so they can make/use stimpacks that heal for more and cost less to make because there are so many making/selling them.

Also please note that the only thing in this game that does not give medics any xp are pets. Right? Yep. And yet for some reason we want to force them to come to us…

As for BEs, well, they are one of the most broken classes in the game. They were given PET ONLY stims for the fact that they can create pets…they are Bio-Engineers…shouldn’t they be allowed to create healing items?!?. Animals are their field of study! Why shouldn’t they be able to make them?!? You do realize that the only way to become a BE is to train up the MEDIC line of organic chemistry…this is the medical CRAFTING line BTW.

Knowing BE’s train up the medical crafting line to get the profession can we really say that they should not be able to make pet only healing stims?!? Sorry guys, I think we are wrong with that.

Now, lets look at our own Stimpack A’s, anyone can use them…anyone. Stimpack B’s? not much difference there right?

I think if anything, the BE stims should be treated like Medic Stims. Anyone can use As and Bs. The rest should require BE novice and stim C’s a line in the BE skill…the tissue engineering line looks the best in my eyes.

If these few points arent enough to help you understand the changes the devs made then lets look at this another way.

Entertainers are the ONLY people that can heal Battle fatigue and mind wounds.

Medics can heal players AND pets.

BE’s can heal ONLY pets.

Medics have lost nothing with BE stims, as is, we gain nothing from healing pets anyway and it actually gave the BE class something to make them a little more meaningful. It also divided up the damage types three ways AND it made it so there is another class that can help heal up the tanks in the group. Personally I love the idea of having someone that can concentrate on healing the tanks so the medics are free to keep people alive.

So, what do you think? Better to have the BE stims set to a Cert system like Medic stims right? Or is everyone still bent on thinking that BE’s do not deserve the ability to make Stims even thought they trained up the medic crafting line to get there?

BTW, keep in mind that Stimpack A, B and Cscome inthenovice medic line...CH is anelite class and people are usingan elite class item for FREE when you post your reply.

My main problem with it is that pets are the main tanks in the game, and what is required to heal them anyone can use.

My friend, when I buff him up does not have 10k mind, or some insane resistances from attacks.

I can not heal my friend from mind damage.

What am I, as a doctor, supposed to do?

Add in that healing pets gives no xp, who wants or needs a doctor that doesnt get anything from healing the main tank?

The pets that they gave everyone I was against, because this is more like pet wars galaxies, I dont see why they did that. If people want pets they can always use faction pets.

It kills DE too, because who wants a droid for fighting?

Also, I should point out that stim B's require novice medic, that the ones that most people use are made by a master doctor as well. You get 13/140 stims out of your average novice medic rofl, big diff from 35/400 stims from a master doctor with 10 exp points using adv components.

If all this other stuff is ok, I fail to see why a medical survey would be that bad, given medical forage is broken and useless.

Heh, sorry forgot my point.

Want em? Fine, make it so that they do not heal mind damage, and that creature handlers have a requirement for use.

A's anyone can use, B's, novice CH can use, and go from there.

That would be acceptable as far as Im concerned.

Well, I think the thing that no one wants to face is the fact that BEs are actually pet doctors. They have to train the medical crafting tree to get there. Why not let them heal pets? they did not remove the ability for medics to do it. You do know that BE stims sell for at least twice the amount as an equal powered medic stimpack dont you?

You do have some good points, but you may also want to think about the fact that Medic stimpack B's and C's are made and used by the medic class, a non elite class. CH is an elite class, since there is no xp gain from using stimpacks on pets...and the high cost of buying BE stims, there really is no reason to make it so BE stims cost anything to use.

Its not like medics are losing money or are weaker from this.

yes, they are made by an elite class and have the power of medic stims made by a non elite class.

Heres a good question for you, why is there even a NEED for pet stims?

What do you do if you are a player, and need to recover? Could it be take medic and use stims? I think so.

Its either that or rest until you recover, which is always the case with mind.

So, why are pets any different? If they didnt have 10k hams they should recover at the same rate as a player right? Hell prob even faster with tricks and such.

Well, whatever if I start to say that giant graul thats almost immune to damage and has a 10k ham is overpowered, itll just start a flamewar.

Just wanted to correct a couple of things.

ONLY Novice Medics can use even the most basic Stim A. You cannot use even a Stim A without at least the Novice Medic skill, so they are not usable by everyone. All standard stims are only useable by those with at least Novice Medic skill.

Pet Stims are made by an elite profession (cool with me, BE's need all the help they can get). They can be used to heal everything, including mind, by anyone in any other profession.

Wanna give BEs the ability to make Pet stims and vitalitly packs that they, and they alone, can use? Fine by me. Perfectly in line with some of the other elites.

Make it so that stims are only useable by another Elite profession (CH)? Stickier, but I can live with that, too. While I can fully accept and support the argument for basic professions to have completely unique skill sets,I have much less of a problem with the Elite, Advanced and Hybrid professions being able to get some of the skills available to a different basic profession at lower levels (generally) of ability.

No we have seen CH skills partially pulled away from them an given to everyone. There are some beenfits and drawbacks to this. Lets face it, we need some way to get pets into all the players hands just ot be able to use them as mounts at least. Non-CH pets must be of generally low-level and non-aggro and nobody but a CH can actually tame or even train the pet. I think Droids should be BETTER than these pets for use as a tank.

To me this would be a similar situation to allowing anyone to use Stim As for healing. I'm actually all for that idea. I think it opens up a whole new market, especially down at the Medic level, for selling stims. And considering how little even a fully experimented with the best resources available Stim A is capable of healing, I don't see that as a problem. (Note, this would imply that Stim As did not use the /heald command in such a situation, for those wishing to take up that argument-line. I am strictly speaking of the ability to use Stim As, and only ever As, without having Novice Medic.)

Now I do agree to a certain extent that Pet Stimpacks is not a big issue,I do happen to agree with the idea that it IS an issue. The point here being that providing a healing skill, at all levels (that is above Pet Stimpack A) to every person in the game who is willing to buy it that actually heals mind damage as well realy is akind to a form of rape of the medical profession. It issue is NOT with BEs or their ability to make or use the packs. The issue is with everyone else being able to use these packs. Perhaps I was not very clear with my wording there, as I most definitely see and include BEs as a Medic Profession.)

So the issue really doesn't deal with Pet Stims, as I see it. It's that our profession is no longer relavent in an area of healing. (Don't bother bringing up the idea that we no longer get XP for healing Pets, that decision is not fully set in stone and once you hit Master what do you care about the XP anyway? It'll be healing for healings sake and party unitythat you worry about. I want those pets up so the MOB doesn't aggro onme, after all.)

The problem with the issue as listed, as I see it, is the compensation. The solutions listed are a bit limited and not necessarily realistic. I do like the idea of making Stim As anyone can use, asking for mind healing is simply another way to say that mind is defnitely an issue we Docs care and worry about but I think it's not really a solution in an of itself to this issueand I don't think the removal of Pet stims is realistic.

I think I will add the concepts of a certification system for the stims, however. That would seem to provide at least some level of balance to who can directly compete with us in the healing arena. But the fact that these things heal mind damage (probably because it is not necessarily exploitable in the way that mind damage healing on a Doc might be) is just an added reminder that there is damage healing in the game that we just have to sit back and watch occur and can do nothing about. Rather like watching our main PC tank drop in 30 seconds to mind hits, while Joe-Novice-Marksman with their brand new Gurreck they just bought can make sure it almost never drops due to mind with the best Pest Stims available.

One thing I think some of you have neglected to mention is that while BEs are making pet stims, they cannot currently make them in a factory. Each one is hand crafted. This limits how many of them there are out there and so I still get tells from people with offers to heal their pets.

Also, pet stims still require medical subcomponents and who makes the best subcomponents? We doctors do. So you can sell subcomponents or even schematics to BEs to make subcomponents. Coupled with the fact that each pet stim has to be hand crafted right now, I suppose many BEs would like to buy a crate of high quality subcomponents just so they reduce the many clicks they have to make to make a bunch of pet stims.

Right now, it can take many applications to heal a big pet using the pet stims I have seen on bazars. With the value-add of doctor components, we can reduce this number.

The way I see it, if you play your cards right, doctors can parley this into good solid working relationships with BEs,

very well thought out post. Most of the time people cry nerf they don't realize how it impacts other classes. Vey well said.

Well, in this instance Starphire, it could be argued that we were the ones nerfed b this added "feature" to begin with. The issue could be construed as a cry to un-nerf us.

Personally, I take Issue #18 not as a request to remove stimpacks (although that option is given as it has been requested and suggested by others on these forums), but as a request to have the Devs take a closer look at these and reconsider how they affect the base design decisions made in the game and how these stims affect the healing classes.

Pet stims are made by an elite class, just like Enhancement packs. Not everyone can use those...

Zarlor, so you think my idea of Certs for pet stims above A is a good idea then? It seems so. Maybe we should change the wording on #18 to reflect this?

Also, you shouldnt complain about the stims healing mind...CHs have ALWAYS had pet tricks, tricks heal mind damage and wounds. It shouldnt be an issue with the stims (though I do believe we should be able to heal mind damage with our own stims).

Why should something that requires no skill to use on a pet heal damage that not even a master doctor / combat medic can heal?

I fail to see why a pet with a 10k ham deserves to have an unskilled person healing their mind, but I can not heal my friends mind who only has 800 mind.