Development Cycle Archive
Thread: ID#2: Two Changes to Bazaars and Vendors
BaudGnarly wrote:
Screw ThunderFart and his bull crapp
"I don't understand crafting, nor do I like it. I am a puppet and PR tool for the Dev team, who really don't give a turd about the playerbase."
If the 150 item limit goes into effect, I will assume this new forum to be totally worthless. It is obvious anyone who has experience with this profession is against this nerf.
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE TEST IT BEFORE YOU CHANGE IT!
Last time we had a major Merchant change it resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of items. I thought it was a stealth nerf to remove items from the overflowing database. Now I think I may have been right.
I thought it was a stealth nerf to remove the color from the names of our items. After all, they took the time to strip the colors from the names of the items they returned to us after this bug went in.
I think it's a very good idea to have a "QUANTITY" field under vendor item listings. That way all identical items would be listed on a single line, and the customer could choose a quantity of the item to buy... The vendor owner of course would set the price per item (or cost/unit for resources).
I'm for the raising of the General Bazaar price cap to 6000.
I can see the reason to have a limit on the personal vendors, but 150 is far too low. I would suggest 500-1000
Ok first, the only reason anyone uses a merchant instead of the bazaar is the price cap. If you want to sell something for over 3k, you go to a merchant. If you want to eliminate the merchant profession, raising the cap will do that.
Second,
DO NOT LIMIT VENDOR ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!
I already own a medium house, 4 factories, and 3 warehouses (I lease lots for space) and I have my max 6 vendors. I am a Master Weaponsmith/Master Artisan/Master Architect/Merchant. I have two vendors for weapons alone that have 2000 items on them. I sell those out each week. I sell about 400 weapons per day. Under your 150 cap I would have to log on every 8 hours to restock, that is BS!!! I have a vendor for my architect work, one for my artisan work, and the other 2 are for my merchant clients. I sell goods for 14 other people that do not have merchant skills but want to charge over 3k for some items. You will not only put me out of business, but all those people will stop crafting too. What you will get is a mass shortage of player goods and the prices will go through the roof. If I can only stock 150 items, they will be the most expensive ones.
It is unreasonable to ask someone to log on several times a day to do vendor restocking simply because they sell a lot of items. I have over 1,500 regular customers, and I sell about 400 items per day. It is already nearly impossible to keep things in stock given the high demand. If you put this 150 limit, you will see some of you biggest merchants quit the game. Then your players will not be able to buy things they need.
PLEASE, I BEG YOU, DO NOT RUIN THE GAME WITH THE 150 CAP!!!!!
Meridian Trivector
Syclla
I would much rather see a revamp of the bazaar item listing and sorting options than toying with the price cap or personal vendor items.It should be easier to find certian resources and other items than it currently is. There have been good improvements but it is still a mess.
The decrease to 150 items is a HORRIBLE change. All you're doing is penalizing merchants who put the most effort in. You're doing this in reaction to your poor database design and the recent increase to the number of days that items are ont he vendor, not for any alleged benefit to players--the "preventing monopolies" argument doesn't hold any water at all. At least be honest that it's a technical change driving this decision.
From a game standpoint, there's no reason to implement this. Game design changes should only be made when they enhance enjoyment and longevity of the game experience. This change does neither--in fact it does the opposite.
As for the increase to 6K. Seems fine to me. Might even be a little light. On some servers, due to inflation, the 3K that we started with in month one is probably closer in value to 20K now, so unless you increase the limit, then inflation has been silently nerfing the bazaar all along.
The bazaars are a non-issue.
Capping vendors to 150 is incredibly harmful. You have built an economy that is dependent on players making and selling goods. Now you are threatening to slow that economy to a dribble and make items so hard to get as to possibly make the game unplayable. Already there is a huge shortage of serious vendors with good selections that are stocked on a regular basis, while there is a plethora of this and that vendors--many of whom no longer even have merchant skills.
I have a master merchant and runfour vendors. One for medical supplies, one for weapons, one for odds and ends, and my biggest vendor for selling chef items. It is my chef vendor that really gets nailed by this. I have gone to great lengths not only to stock the most popular foods and drinks, but also to have the specialty items available in crates and singles. I have over 400 items in it now.
Why do I have 400 items in my vendor?
1. Vendor lag makes stocking a huge pain in the butt. I try to do it all at once in the morning hours. Stocking vendors is a chore, not a fun aspect of game play. I don't want to do this daily.
2. I sell singles as well as crates, thus new players can actually afford to buy my stuff. Selling singles takes up a lot of space.
3. As I stated earlier, I offer a huge selection.
Your arguments about monopolies just doesn't wash. This is a cheap way to band-aid your database problems. You would be wise to look into the effect having no vendors for two days on Bloodfin had on player community before you leap onto a solution like the one you have proposed.
My first question is: Are these moves allready to be implemented?
My second question: Why would you want to screw around with one of the least enjoyable classes to play? The Merchant skill is more of an obligation or necessity. It's hardly fun to stock vendors. You can't really play the class unless you're allready a crafter.
Short Answers: No to the bazaar
No to the 150 item cap limit.
Clarify something for me. Is the 150 item limit on a per vendor basis or is this to be 150 items on all vendors?
Why are you folks having issues with the database? You're part of a multimillion dollar company that should have ready access to this technology. Make a capitol investment and get your own capacity if your contractor cant meet your needs.
nuff said
Nomorenerfs wrote:Incredibly stupid idea on both counts. If you can't manage a database with this many people putting this many items on it, then fix your database. Don't punish the people using it.
Merchant is a joke as it is, but I've learned to work around its quirks (who was the brain surgeon that came up with Efficiency 1? Wow, for 5 skill points, I save a whopping 1.6 credits on bazaar postings! Whoopie!)
After reading Thunderpant's post at the beginning of this, I went and put up two more vendors and moved my well-stocked tailor vendor contents to three vendors. Did this save your database? Nope, it made it worse, but I played by YOUR rules. You guys seem to go out of your way to PUNISH the people who work within your constraints, and then nerf them into oblivion, destroying their businesses. This is becoming too much like a job. Your proposed limits are UNSATISFACTORY. Fix your database or build a more efficient one, quit punishing your paying customers.
Seriously, Kurt, doesn't this point hammer home?
Instead of the fluff statements on an issue that will quite frankly ruin the entire structure of the game why don't we get honest feedback from critical developers as to why this is even an issue.
The group I work with manages Oracle databases that have millions of queries a day. The lead DBA makes around 84k a year. Does this seem unreasonable? I dont think so.
Archangel's idea to add a means of tracking the number of identical items in one database row is a great one. It helps your database issue and improves the game experience at the same time.
I have another suggestion as well. If you implement this change, please go ahead and implement NPC-run shops as well, because I have a feeling that a ton of merchants (myself included) are going to finally throw in the towel when this unasked-for nerf goes in.
Speaking as an architect/artisan/resource dealer
this would completely ruin me
i have LITERALLY 2700 items on my vendor. what am i supposed to do?
i'm dead serious when i say tha tany vendor limit below about 5000 is going to cripple me for one reason -- how am i supposed to grow? i am getting master merchant then dropping it because there are other things i want to do in this game besides craft.... so i keep my vendor up and the maint etc. ... i dont' want to place more vendors because my vendor is in another person's house
i have 2700 items on htat vendor, on intrepid server. so i'm supposed to be punished for being good at the system that they set up? that's BS -- you can edit it all you want but thats bull s---.