Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
I find it funny that ppl think that CMs are over powered.
I saw an example of the 600 damage per tick, I'm the first mCM on kauri and prob one of the first in the galaxy...I've never done 600 a tick..why?
Because I'm not a master crafter that is going to spend hours looking for resources hours going to the harvesters and millions of credits to get them..then spend time infront of the best crafting station money can by and crafting kit.
PvP does suffer the 75% reduction because PvE damage needs to be upped 4x over.
but lets see i'm willing to bet the average mind is 800 ham, lets use a profession that uses as many Skillpoints as the CM....commando
so I throw a poison....6 secs later -600 damage then 6 secs later 199 damage...you're still on your feet shooting..cm now does what?
so in the 12 secs it takes to get your ham to 1....how much damage did you do on the CM?
lets use flame single 2...boom about 2k damage 4secs later boom 2k damage 4 secs later boom 2k damage
so in 12 secs a CM does 799 damage against a commando, the commando does 6k damage (not including the dot damage)
well obviously the CM was dead well before 12 secs and the Commando will not die from poison and he can sit down and it will go away.
OH BUT APOLLO, THE CM DAMAGE IS OVERPOWERED WHEN IT COMES TO GRPS.
ok lets use a grp of 10
I throw poison, 6 secs later boom 6000 damage (600 damage x 10 ppl) then s 6 secs later 1990 damage (199 x 10 ppl)
so the cm does 8k damage (assuming no one resisted)
well in 12 secs the CM can have 60k damage applied to him by those 10 commandos..but lets be reasonable..
the CM uses a grp tef and poisons 10 overt ppl...they autofire (instead of using a special and it has 64m range) each auto fire is around 400 in pvp
so before the first tick gets applied the CM has taken 4k damage from autofire
As you can see the CM poison is more of an annoyance in PvP than an overpowered profession.
Apollo
Master CM, Master Carbinier
Badbrew wrote:The people that cry nerf offer no alternative. They know the CM will becomes useless. Is poison too powerful? Maybe. But thats more proof the entire class needs a revamp. The very fact that a PvP oversight makes poisons our only effective weapon demonstrates how useless and poorly thought out the class is....
I'd have to agree with most of what you said.
But I think I wouldn't agree with you on fundamental difference.
Dev put CM on this list of combat profession, so I would assume that Dev think CM are combat profession.
But looking over the responses and from the way Dev talk about Holy trinity of Tank-Healer-Nuker, I think Dev pictured CM in the role of Healer.
If they nurf poison/Disease would lot of CM quit? most definately. All those who play CM like they are primarily a fighter/nuker will definately quit. All those who play CM like they are healer wouldn't even notice the difference.
If Dev considered CM to be a healer profession, then loss of CM who played them as offensive profession and spent all their time throwing poison/disease because they think CM can't heal would be something Dev prefer. What would be left if CM who always stood back and primarily healed their group mates and let them fight. Without CM and their poison/disease, more doctor and medics would likely to be there. Maybe not. Can't say for sure.
Lot of CM who say they will quit mention that if they quit there will be no more CM to heal their group mates, but those who quit because they nurfed poison/disease never really were there to heal their group mates in the first place. So what do we have is CM, Doctors & medic who is there to just heal and all other combat profession there to try to kill each other.
If Dev considered CM to be a front line combat profession, then I think CM have nothing to worry about.
Xytroncore wrote:
Oh and another thing, if mind heal is going to suck forever can you at least make it more consistant? I mean I healed someone's mind today for only 439 damage out of a mind pool of 1900, that heal was immediately negated by a shot to the guys head for 650 from a riflemen....I ended up with over 120 wounds just for healing for 439 damage....how awesome is that?
It seems so many CM are unhappy with mind heal. And mind damage is still fairly sore issue in PvP, so why don't they move the mind heal to Master Medic skill?
It is a skill CM consistantly argue is worse than useless so they sure wouldn't mind if Master Medic, CM and Doctor get em
More number of people who can heal mind would maybe lessen the problem of mind damage in PvP
and it may bring more doctor into PvP along with their cure poison/disease which would reduce the problem of poison/disease we seem to have.
Combat Medics are the support healers that you want when in battle. They have powerful, fast healing abilities that can work from a greater distance than Medics. They can also treat some afflictions in the field, as well as providing minor buffs in the thick of combat. All around, the Combat Medic is excellent support to a group, but has little effectiveness alone.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
* Application of medicines and drugs - quickly and at short range (as opposed to no range for Medics) is the sole combat element of the Combat Medic.
What offensive abilities?
They have no offense in the traditional sense of attacking enemies, but they provide offense in strengthening their comrades in battle. The Combat Medic provides minor state buffs via drugs. With their drugs they can increase the speed of their teammates, put them into a Berserk frenzy, or calm them down, among others.
What defensive abilities?
Obviously, Combat Medics are the defensive kings. They have awesome healing abilities, and can temporarily stop bleeding, stop the spread of disease, and keep their teammates going in battle even though they are in rough shape.
What unique abilities?
Combat Medics provide many unique assets:
* Range on stims is greater than that of Medics' or Doctors'.
* Battle Negotiation - When in combat, Combat Medics get an adrenaline boost to speed that allows them to get where they are needed quickly.
* Defensive Drugs - used to protect comrades that are under fire.
***** Anti-coagulant - Temporarily stops bleeding. When the drug wears off, the bleeding may continue.
***** Anti-biotics - Temporarily ceases the spread of disease. When the drug wears off, the disease may continue.
***** Anti-venom - Generic antivenom that slows the effects of poison. When the drug wears off the poison may continue to have an effect.
* Offensive Drugs - used to increase a comrades effectiveness in battle. Many of these steroids may be contraband.
***** Epinephrine - Gives an ally a slight speed boost for a short amount of time.
***** Proto-Testosterone - This steroid has the ability to put the subject into a Berserk rage, increasing his strength but reducing his reflexes (Brawler Berserk state, with duration and effectiveness altered by experimentation).
***** Dopamine - This steroid triggers the subject's nervous system into a relaxed state. This drug will increase concentration and reflexes (accuracy/defensive modifiers) for a short amount of time.
The use of too many steroids may become harmful to the user, resulting in an overdose (poison effect from too many CM buffs in a short period of time).
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The Combat Medic is highly sought after to keep his teammates alive and in fighting form. He is their healer and doctor in the field. They will also come to value a good Combat Medic's knowledge of drugs and steroids to give them that combat edge.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The Combat Medic requires complex chemicals for his drugs, and will either have to buy the drugs or find a chemical supplier if he is unable to get into the business himself. They should overshadow Medics in effectiveness, but be unable to outright cure patients like a Doctor.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
The Combat Medic will need offense on his team if he is to achieve victory. He is not a fighter, and can only do his job when he has soldiers to keep alive and fighting. No other combatant will be as effective as defensive support as the Combat Medic. They will require a doctor after many battles to patch up the soldiers more completely than the Combat Medic's capabilities allow. (Curing the diseases/poisons/bleeds/wounds should still be the domain of the Doctor; the Combat Medic provides a temporary surcease of the effects.)
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The Combat Medic will be vital in large PVP conflicts. They are the defensive support. However, they have no specific role in the GCW.
That's how I see the role of the Combat Medic.
I'm Artisan 0000, Brawler 1000, Entertainer 0111, Marksman 4443, and Scout 4040.
In response to what Shand said...
again, the abilities that you suggested we either already have or wouln't need if psn/disease gets nerfed or taken out.
Also i would like to point out that, plain and simple, if CM is not a combat class then why is it on the combat forums? I know i see it as a very combat related class.
Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic
I woulod suggest that golks who have problems with CMs because of Mind Damage (or CMs with issues with .mindHeal) should probably ignore those things for purposes of this discussion. The combat revamp should remove the reson mind healing was exploitable to begin with so after the revamp there will be no reason to treat mind any differently from any other damage form. Hence I very, verystrongly suspect we will see stims healing mind right along with health and action.
So your "solution" to that biggest of problems that folks have with CMs is already in the works. I think our energies would be better served by keeping that in mind and not taking it too strongly into consideration.
I would include the post 64m range throwing in with that as well, as something that iwll likely be fixed shortly and is not really a true part of what CMs can do.
Oh, and TH, if you know anything and have the time, could you answer some of most basic questions presented on this forum? (eg "is CM a combat profession?")
Thx a ton.
Grozzer
DSM
Master Combat Medic
Th Zarlor, you know when we will be able to see this on the CM/Doc forums?
Zarlor wrote:
I woulod suggest that golks who have problems with CMs because of Mind Damage (or CMs with issues with .mindHeal) should probably ignore those things for purposes of this discussion. The combat revamp should remove the reson mind healing was exploitable to begin with so after the revamp there will be no reason to treat mind any differently from any other damage form. Hence I very, verystrongly suspect we will see stims healing mind right along with health and action.
So your "solution" to that biggest of problems that folks have with CMs is already in the works. I think our energies would be better served by keeping that in mind and not taking it too strongly into consideration.
I would include the post 64m range throwing in with that as well, as something that iwll likely be fixed shortly and is not really a true part of what CMs can do.
Ok I'm about to take a pro-CM stance so if you feel like flaming go right ahead. Sticks and stones...
I play a master CM/master Pistoleer on Flurry and to be honest I just don't see how "uber" I really am. First off CM's dont really become effective until they master the profession. Only then do you get the range, speed and ability to use the higher end poisons and stims. Also I find that even with Ranged C poisons made with adv. components (and I don't know about other servers but on Flurry class 1 radioactive does not, and has not ever, existed, making adv resilience compounds obsolete) that they get resisted 30-50% of the time. It is only when I use a rancor poison that I get the results I'm after.
Furthermore, in PvP throwing just one ranged anything, be it stim, poison, or disease, paints a HUGE bullseye on my back and unlessI have adequate support from my teammates I am toast. I get delayed and knocked down and thats all she wrote. This is especially trueon offensive raids whenI then have to clone in a different city away from the battle, redeclare, and trudge my ass back to the scene. It's a little different on defense in a city where I can respawn overt. Butthen thecycle is disease-die-disease-die etc. until the raiding party is softenened up enough for the rest to clean up. This results in a steady negative flow of faction points from myself for the good of my teammates, not to mention the decay of all the items I suffer even though they are insured ( I read that pvp item decaymay be eliminated in an upcoming patch but that doesn't do we CM's any good at present.) Healing is great in PvE but due to the more powerful weapons out there (eg. flamethrower)in PvP it is an ineffective waste of time. Also, while CM's are currently the only one's who can administer poisons, we certainly arent immune to it them. We suffer the same afflictions when applied to us as well. So when on a raid, bring one of us along.
I do not deny that there are some balancing issues that need to be worked out but that can be achieved without another CM nerf.Some suggestions I'd like to offer are:
1) Make the rancor bile drop a more rare occurance. Some very powerful poison and disease can be made from it and a hunting party slaughtering rancors can harvest a decent amount in just a few hours.
2) Introduce more components such as skill enhancers, armor attachments, quest items, etc. that provide an individual with resistance to poisons or diseases, with the ultra rare component providing both.
3) Add a new buff pack to the doctor profession providing temporary resistance to poisons and diseases. Make it so that it can reduce the strength and duration of the poison suffered, but not necessarily make the player immune. Sort of like a flu shot.
4) Finally, for the CM's, make mind healing a little less costly in terms of the wounds we receive administering that treatment. i would also like to see a stim we could craft and use that could put out someone who is on fire.
The above suggestions would allow the CM to retain the skills they currently posess and bring them back to the support class they were meant to be. At the same time this wouldallow a more diligent PvP'r to prepare for upcoming battles imo. This is just my 2 cents...