Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-10: Combat Roles; Pistoleer
Not a tremendous amount of things to say, but more of a summary on reading what other people have written.
I aggree that a pistoleer should be fast, maybe as fast as a fencer (gun / Sword not a lot of difference in weight) but not as fast as Teras Kasi, and if you choose to get close, they're all going to Dizzy/KD you as you cant fire a pistol when you're flat on your back with the world spinning around you, you deserve it!!!
As for damage, good points have been made about the range benefits / disadvantages, if you get too close to a melee weapon, you should be made to pay, you wouldn'tget thet close if you didnt need to in real life!!
Ranged weapons are gonna kill you a lot quicker if you try to "hide" behind a rock and fire from a distance, the secret will be in figuring out "how am i gonna get closer"? you have to figure it out, as it was your choice to be a pistoleer in the first place, it's unfair to add special abilities against ranged weapons that they can't counter, otherwise they'll lose their edge!So there is already a natural balance there!
We should come into our own in the 5-30m range, I agree completely, as at the moment, myoptimum range with my republic blaster is 64m and prone!! surley i'd be better offusing a rifle??
Accuracy.......tough one really, although a rifleman has a scope, and therefore should never miss a distant target, I'm sure i've seen pistols on the TV with Laser Sights.............Oh yeah thats right, we can barely make it too the moon safely, but we managed to invent laser sights, where as the Star Wars folk travel Millions of miles a day through space and havn't thought of that yet? ..................Accuracy is probably best left alone as a master of any weapon is rarely gonna miss. the main mod on that is going to be someones dodge ability which i dont want to get into.....the lighter the object you carry, the faster you can getout of the way of something, surely thats just natural law???
Duel Weapons............Every pistoleer wants it, and why not? It's a great idea, .....yes it should affect your accuracy and speed in relevance to each other but NO you shouldn't be able to pull off 2 specials at once, I'm sure that even the very best would struggle to hit someone in the eye and hittheir weapon at 30m while avoiding the Huge Fireballs that keep flying pasttheir heads.Duel pistolsshould just be treated as though they are 1one weapon (although animation would show 2), firing a lot quicker, in effect giving you almost enough time to fire 2 special to your opponents 1.
But what will this lead to? Ohhhh the head aches...... Why cant a carbineer use Gaffer tape to Stick 2 Carbines togeather? they did it in alien!! Why can't a fencer hold 2 swords?? I've seen it in Indiana Jones........Unfortunately it could lead to total chaos for the Developers, so maybe the best way is to justto give pistols a quicker firing rate, at the end of the day, if speed was chopped to 0.5 then it would be the same as having 2 pistols, but we wouldnt suffer any accuracy costs, I know it'd look cool to have 2 pistols, but i'm fed up with people going on about how things look (mainly due to a Teras Kasi Novice moaning about the meditate animation last night while I was getting slapped about by an ancient bull rancor)......surely its the mechanics of a pistoleer that count, it's gonna look great with twice as many "beams" heading towards an opponent anyway. The Only Real answer is Fixing all weapons, Never in my life have i heard of a Sniper who can fire as fast as a gunslinger, but on the other hand, every rifle shot will count and hurt....A LOT!!
Crippling shots should be made available to all "gun wealding" professions, i.e if i was a sniper and i saw someone running at me with a pistol, i'd shoot him in the leg therefore giving me more time to pound his head before he got to me, likewise, pistoleers have the Disarming shot, if fixed it would be the perfect pistoleer move in answer to my very first question........If you shoot a rifleman in the hand you're gonna have more time to get up close and pound him before he gets himself sorted.
Hope this helps...... just a few collective ideas............
P.S Any jobs going?? even if it's making tea...I envy you guys so much, keep up the good work
Mac
The Sand People of Fort Tuscans Personal Punching Bag.......(revenge timer..2 weeks and counting)
Macshlong wrote:Not a tremendous amount of things to say, but more of a summary on reading what other people have written.
I aggree that a pistoleer should be fast, maybe as fast as a fencer (gun / Sword not a lot of difference in weight) but not as fast as Teras Kasi, and if you choose to get close, they're all going to Dizzy/KD you as you cant fire a pistol when you're flat on your back with the world spinning around you, you deserve it!!!
As for damage, good points have been made about the range benefits / disadvantages, if you get too close to a melee weapon, you should be made to pay, you wouldn'tget thet close if you didnt need to in real life!!
Ranged weapons are gonna kill you a lot quicker if you try to "hide" behind a rock and fire from a distance, the secret will be in figuring out "how am i gonna get closer"? you have to figure it out, as it was your choice to be a pistoleer in the first place, it's unfair to add special abilities against ranged weapons that they can't counter, otherwise they'll lose their edge!So there is already a natural balance there!
We should come into our own in the 5-30m range, I agree completely, as at the moment, myoptimum range with my republic blaster is 64m and prone!! surley i'd be better offusing a rifle??
Accuracy.......tough one really, although a rifleman has a scope, and therefore should never miss a distant target, I'm sure i've seen pistols on the TV with Laser Sights.............Oh yeah thats right, we can barely make it too the moon safely, but we managed to invent laser sights, where as the Star Wars folk travel Millions of miles a day through space and havn't thought of that yet? ..................Accuracy is probably best left alone as a master of any weapon is rarely gonna miss. the main mod on that is going to be someones dodge ability which i dont want to get into.....the lighter the object you carry, the faster you can getout of the way of something, surely thats just natural law???
Duel Weapons............Every pistoleer wants it, and why not? It's a great idea, .....yes it should affect your accuracy and speed in relevance to each other but NO you shouldn't be able to pull off 2 specials at once, I'm sure that even the very best would struggle to hit someone in the eye and hittheir weapon at 30m while avoiding the Huge Fireballs that keep flying pasttheir heads.Duel pistolsshould just be treated as though they are 1one weapon (although animation would show 2), firing a lot quicker, in effect giving you almost enough time to fire 2 special to your opponents 1.
But what will this lead to? Ohhhh the head aches...... Why cant a carbineer use Gaffer tape to Stick 2 Carbines togeather? they did it in alien!! Why can't a fencer hold 2 swords?? I've seen it in Indiana Jones........Unfortunately it could lead to total chaos for the Developers, so maybe the best way is to justto give pistols a quicker firing rate, at the end of the day, if speed was chopped to 0.5 then it would be the same as having 2 pistols, but we wouldnt suffer any accuracy costs, I know it'd look cool to have 2 pistols, but i'm fed up with people going on about how things look (mainly due to a Teras Kasi Novice moaning about the meditate animation last night while I was getting slapped about by an ancient bull rancor)......surely its the mechanics of a pistoleer that count, it's gonna look great with twice as many "beams" heading towards an opponent anyway. The Only Real answer is Fixing all weapons, Never in my life have i heard of a Sniper who can fire as fast as a gunslinger, but on the other hand, every rifle shot will count and hurt....A LOT!!
Crippling shots should be made available to all "gun wealding" professions, i.e if i was a sniper and i saw someone running at me with a pistol, i'd shoot him in the leg therefore giving me more time to pound his head before he got to me, likewise, pistoleers have the Disarming shot, if fixed it would be the perfect pistoleer move in answer to my very first question........If you shoot a rifleman in the hand you're gonna have more time to get up close and pound him before he gets himself sorted.
Hope this helps...... just a few collective ideas............
P.S Any jobs going?? even if it's making tea...I envy you guys so much, keep up the good work
Mac
The Sand People of Fort Tuscans Personal Punching Bag.......(revenge timer..2 weeks and counting)
25/M/UK
All very good, but I think you've got the speed thing all wrong. Pressing a trigger can be done much faster than throwing a punch, much less landing a kick. Furthermore, you say we deserve to get dizzy/KDed and automatically killed if we get too close, yet you also say we should have our range reduced. That doesn't make any sense...
Anyway, upping our melee defense mods just a little (say 5-10 points) would help. That and duel wield/quickdraw would be nice. I don't think anyone, even a sniper, should get the jump on us.
1) What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?
A pistoleer is someone who is highly skilled with small firearms, and has the ability, speedand skillsto deliver ranged damage whilereducing damage taken. Currently we are on the right track, but a few thingsneed to be tweaked and tweaked again.
2) What basic combat elements should they possess?
Accuracy at close to mid range: while pistolsuse close range weapons, it is difficult to argue that they should only be accurate at close range when a Brawler can hit from 20m away. If 20m is within meleedistance then ranged weapons should have their range increased. I invite all and sundry to measure out 20m on the floor, and then try to lunge that far across the room before your opponent moves.
Speed and Footwork: we do have speed with the weapon, and footwork is represented by the 'Dodge' skill mod. There is talk that speed is not up to scratch when you obtain Master. Dodge is fine except that it causes you to stop moving while the 'emote' plays out. As a proffession that has skill mods to being able to move and fire with some accuracy, this 'stop-to-dodge' aspect is a contradiction, and does get you killed.
Weapon Repair: Being a pistoleer includes knowledge of pistol mechanisms and maintenance (cleaning of weapon, replacing firing mechanisms, replacing springs etc). "Know your weapon". Therefore , any Master of any proffession who uses a repair kit should have zero chance of critical failure. This shoud be applied to all combat proffessions who try to repairthier class specific weapon.
3) What offensive abilities?
Some of the pistoleer offensive specials are not working as intended, if at all.
I would like to see some kind of 'Rescue' ability added. Basically the ability to fire a special 'ear-zinger' that gets the opponents attention and causes them to aggro you, or perform a stinging shot that enrages the opponent and causes them to change target. In PvP, this could cause the target to automatically switch from their current target to you.
The chance to Stun or Dizzy an opponent with Pistol Whip 1 or 2 would be inline with this proffession as receiving a Pistol Whip usually results in the recipient being knocked unconscious in RL.
4) What defensive abilities?
Dodge is good, and i have already mentioned the problem with it.
Melee defense is fair, although i would like to see it increased to 50, currently it is 49.
5) What unique abilities?
Duel wield pistols.
The ability to use a holster. Having the holster low on your thigh gives speed on your first shot, so a reduced delay between 1st and 2nd shot. Having the holster on your hip gives better accuracy, so a bonus to hit on your first shot.
6) Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
I dont know. In group, Riflemen are snipers, Carbineers give covering fire and keep the enemies heads down, Commandos deliver heavy weapons damage, Melee specialists go toe to toe......Pistoleer? I dont know that we give any advantage to a group at the moment. And i dont have any ideas on how we should contribute to group effectiveness because i cant think of any role we might play that defines us in group combat like the other combat proffessions, other than we are just another damage giver.
7) How could/should they interact with other professions?
I dont understand the question.
8) What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
See question 7.
9) What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
See question 8. I dont see that any one class except commando has a unique role in the GCW.
Well, medics and doctors of course.....and smiths.
Ok Miagi, sorry bout that. Just that i got screwed on an auction held by Straws(Mobail in-game) so I have to be careful.
#3 260k
Doxuc
P>
Doxuc
As some people have stated....
Wielding 2 pistols... THIS is a master pistoleer. Imagine being able to use 2 pistols when you reach Master. What would even be better, yet require more animation and code, is the ability to target 2 seperate bogeys, ie: a target for each pistol. The pistoleer would be liable to go cross-eyed, but would be amazing to see him dish out some serious damage to multiple targets at the same time. It would make the class more entertaining.
Also, why can't the FWG5s sound more like Scatter pistols? I love the sound of scatter pistols.
What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?
A pistoleer in combat should be lightning fast, supper agile, and very difficult to hit.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The bigest combat element of a pistoleer should be his speed. His draw should be so fast it cant be seen. His shots should come off so quick its over welming.
What offensive abilities?
Again I cant stress how importian speed is.
What defensive abilities?
Again Agility. A pistoleer should be quisk on his feet and always on the move.
What unique abilities?
Twin pistols. A rifle takes two hands to steady and deals alot of damage. Same is true for a carbine. A pistol however only requires one hand two aim and fire. There far a pistoleer/gunfighter should have the ability to use two pistols at the same time.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Over weliming speed, and short range defence.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The pistoleer should be very effective against meele combatants. Doing alot of damage at a short range very quickly while avoiding taking damage to himself. Shold be lacking agains rifles and carbines. Both being longer range weapons they should be able to due considerable damage to a pistoleer before he gets into a effective range.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I think this is question was answered above.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Pistoleer should be very effective at cleaning out or deffendingbases, and dungons. Being a fast hiting short range combatant room to room fighting should be the signiture of the pistoleer.
To sum this up, a Pistoleer should be a some what romantic type figure, capable of incredable speed and agility while keeping a level head. A pistoleer should be a strong aponent in close corters. Posable even have a extra modifier for interior fighting. The pistoleer should be called appon to mop up bases and should be the most effective at doing so. The pistoleer should be able to use twin pistols, as it fits with the romantic picture. However the pistoleer should be vulnerable to long range attacks by carbineers and riflemen due to the short range nature of the pistol itself.
Thank You for your time,
Let me just say it makes me very angry that at 2/2/4/2 Pistoleer (and climbing) I can be incapped by one mind shot (a wookiee, even buffed I only have max 800 mind). When a Pistoleer is moving they should be very hard to hit. I find it ridiculous that I can be incapped with one shot to the mind. What's the point of even trying? This is a big frustration of mine in PVP. A wookiee needs something extra to help them along. No armor makes us vulnerable.
Freth (Wookiee / Intrepid) Rebel: Corporal | Master Creature Handler | Master Scout | Pistoleer | Medic