Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Developing a Solution for the Faction Base Issue
Apparently, you don't "get it" caliwyrm. The problem is that people are using houses as OFFENSIVE weapons. They are going up to enemy installations (that have towers, AT-ST's etc) and throwing up a house. Once the house is up, all of their buddies go inside the house, and attack the base by running out, firing, and running back in. A lot of times, a tower, AT-ST, or player will kill one of these guys when they peek out. However, someone on the inside will just /dragcoprse and pull them back inside so that they cannot be deathblowed.
This isn't gurella warfare... It's an exploit. And I think the best way to remedy this is what I described above:
If an overt faction member, or someone with a TEF enters a house, that house becomes public until that person leaves.
People could still use houses for cover, but opposing faction members could go in after them. This would be far better than trying to prevent certain factions from placing houses in certain areas. It would be better than allowing players to arbitrarily destroy buildings. It would encourage more FAIR PvP.
Thunderheart wrote:
Just so you folks know the latest is that we are going to try and get the graphic TEF flag, but thats not going to be a quick change. That requires art assets and some integrations with other systems, but its in the mix
Simple solution: Print a freaking message to spatial...
When you acquire a TEF, have it say: You now have a TEF.
When it goes away: TEF has expired.
I mean, we have messages like these for doctors when they heal... why not for this incredibly important aspect of the game?
Thats the problem it should be on the COMBAT flag, not the TEF flag. Just because i ran missions to hunt down a imperial NPC target doesnt mean i shouldnt be able to go inside after im done. However i shouldnt be able to go in IF im currently battling with said Imperial NPC.
Thats the difference, you want to solve house sniping then you put it on actual combat flag. If someones in combat they cant go in, if you break combat then you can. Not sure if thats doable or not, but that should be the solution.
Which takes care of having a longer TEF flag.
This only takes care of the PvP issue and creates a whole 'nother issue with PvE. I've had my house on Talus since about 2 weeks after launch. However since this last patch Talus is harder than pre-mission nerf endor (I'm not kidding). I've never seen so many aggressive social deep red-con mobs within 10m of my house ever. That's not even considering the new wonderful level 50 faction missions that spawn now as a result of the fixed group difficulty missions.
To put it another way, after this last patch it is NOTHING for me to see over 12 red dots on my radar set at 128m--red dots on Talus are Grand Wrixes, Dalyrakes, Gulginaws, Binayre Pirates, etc. ALL mobs that are alot tougher than my Combat Medic and my wifes Dancer/Artisan. There have been MANY times where my house has saved my life when I've drawn agro from these high level mobs just trying to run the 300m to the Imp base. Added in with the proposed death and incap = decay this would be horrendously poorly thought out if you couldn't enter your house while in ATTACK mode.
BTW, how will this stop people from hiding in a PUBLIC house and still getting the first shot off on you? It can be widely argued that PvP is all about the first shot (dizzy, bleed, knockdown, etc). Houses are this games equivalent of 'stealth' in other MMORPGs except EVERY class gets it as soon as they enter ANY house.
Even after this change goes live people will still be whining that class_x ambushed me from a public house and could disease/poison/dizzy/firecone/whtaever me before I could react..
Even after this change goes live people will still be whining that class_x ambushed me from a public house and could disease/poison/dizzy/firecone/whtaever me before I could react..
Sounds like a great AMBUSH tactic to me. Exactly the kind of tactics the rebels should be using.
But, again, here is my suggestion for keeping Overt players or players with a TEF from using a house as an invincibility shield:
If an overt player, or player with a TEFenters a house, that house becomes PUBLIC, and only reverts to a private state once that overt player leaves the house.
Reviving/dragging need to incur TEFs, which they must be ejected for.
I'm glad someone said this. This is absolutely true!
Yes, I've seen this approach used in the game. I think your solution offers a quick work around. I could see it being annoying if I get a TEF running faction missions and can't enter my house.
Gymbrall wrote:
I don't have a problem with someone running into their house to avoid being killed. I have a problem with them ducking in and out and continuing to attack.
Forget the TEF.
How about you can't enter a private residence (or a residence that has an entrance fee) if you are currently being attacked? And, if you are in a private residence or a residence that has an entrance fee) and you attack someone on the outside (not sure if that's doable), you are ejected from the structure.
Would that work?
A TEF just means you are wanted/hunted and you should be able to lay low and avoid conflict, but until buildings are attackable, the abstraction of prevented a player currently in combat from entering and invincible stronghold will have to do.
IMHO, this is the best solution provided here so far.
I don't participate in the GCW often, although I am an Imperial for the quests. I really don't want to have to wait to enter a house near the Imperial Compound on Talus just because I've been running faction missions ....
Players inside a private house should not be able to target anyone/anything outside .. their own group included. If you can't target it, you can't attack/drag/heal it.
Out of curiosity, does anyone see a flaw in my idea?
If an overt player, or player with a TEFenters a house, that house becomes PUBLIC, and only reverts to a private state once that overt player leaves the house.
Hunter-Al wrote:
Apparently, you don't "get it" caliwyrm. The problem is that people are using houses as OFFENSIVE weapons. They are going up to enemy installations (that have towers, AT-ST's etc) and throwing up a house. Once the house is up, all of their buddies go inside the house, and attack the base by running out, firing, and running back in. A lot of times, a tower, AT-ST, or player will kill one of these guys when they peek out. However, someone on the inside will just /dragcoprse and pull them back inside so that they cannot be deathblowed.
This isn't gurella warfare... It's an exploit. And I think the best way to remedy this is what I described above:
If an overt faction member, or someone with a TEF enters a house, that house becomes public until that person leaves.
People could still use houses for cover, but opposing faction members could go in after them. This would be far better than trying to prevent certain factions from placing houses in certain areas. It would be better than allowing players to arbitrarily destroy buildings. It would encourage more FAIR PvP.
This will go horribly wrong. I live on talus about 350-400m outside the Imp base. I am also an Imp. However, there are CONSTANT rebel spawns around my house (which, in itself is fine) HOWEVER with the new group mission change instead of being Novice Rebel Creature Handlers that I can kill I now have scores of Rebel Commandos outside my door. There are MANY times where as soon as I step outside I get agro from them. These are also mobs that I have *0* chance to win against. According to you I shouldn't be able to go back into my own house for safety? In your scheme of things the Rebel Commando would just come in behind me and destroy me since my Private house would be flagged as 'Public'
I'm sorry, but no amount of nerfing can fix a retarded gameplay style. If you run by HouseX and someone jumps out and kills you then you've just learned HouseX is unfriendly. However, if you KEEP running by HouseX and dying well that's just stupid. NO amount of nerfing can fix that.
Fine, so this change goes in, it won't stop much in the way of PvP--someone jumps out of HosueX and puts dizzy on you, you now lay on your back for the rest of the fight unable to get up while they just plink away at you and kill you. You clone and by the time you get back out there they either don't have TEF so you can't enter and they do it AGAIN or they've left. Under the proposed change you've also taken away the ability for houses to be LEGITIMATELY used for defense against much higher mobs. So whatwas 'fixed' again?
Even in your above scenario the base NPCs won't be able to kill them due to the great mob AI code if the house was public. have the devs fix Covert Scanners and minefields. Have the devs increase the No-build zone around NPC bases (would the Empire reallly want a shanty town around a forward base?). Preventing me from entering my house any time I want, however, isn't a feasible solution.
Let's not forget the death/incap=decay rule now in testing and how this will only accelerate item decay. This isn't a 'sky is falling' post, its simply realistic. The devs still haven't fixed TEFs for the battlefields and the battlefields are the in-game mechanic to judge the GCW (surely the GCW is supposed to be the 'end game'), they'll probably just use the same code for entering your own house.
Yes I have seen it.
It is annoying and petty.
That solution kinda bites really. I would rather the house itself gain a TEF when someone overt or TEFed enters it. Then we could blow it up 
Not only would this be more realistic but would boost the realestate biz 
Easy way to fix things. Remove private structures and remove fees. Instead of having banned people unable to enter make it soanyone who is banned canbe attacked by any administrator or security personal. This idea ismuch like how player cities are supposed to be with their malitia from how I understood it. This allows you to set up a security team. Maybe even add new types of home security items, would actually make using a house in PvP strategic.
As for fees, I think they are stupid anyway but if they are absolutely needed just lower the maximum fee, maybe higher level merchant could make higher fees. With out mechant skills make the max fee be like 100 credits. I don't know many PvPers that will hesitate paying 100 credits to run in and kick their enimies rears and I don't know alot of PvPers that are going to pick up merchant just to use houses to PvP with.
That is a great idea!
yes I have seen it in game before. Seen both sides do it and its disgusted me when they'd go run and hide.
To me atleast 5 minutes seems perfect. Not too short and not too long.